Idaho Sorority girls & 1 boyfriend, brutally killed

[MechAg94]

While their method in narrowing down where to look may raise a few eyebrows, and it should, If they have since gotten an exact match from DNA found at the scene to his DNA they probably more than likely have the right man.

IMO, they had better have more evidence than that to point to him.  All that does is connect him to those people (assuming the DNA sample is accurate enough to tag just him).  Just because the DNA was there doesn't mean he did the crime.  I would be curious about the nature of the DNA sample.  Was it a sizeable sample or just a trace? 

There was a case in Oklahoma several years back of a police officer who was convicted of rape.  DNA testing found "samples" of the accusers DNA on his zipper or something like that.  However, it was shown on further study that the DNA "samples" were as small as stray skin cells and there was testimony that could have transferred from something like a handshake followed by a trip to the restroom.  I believe his appeal was denied regardless.  Just something I try to keep in mind. 

[Ben]

Very cursory, but more info on using the genealogy sites:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/idaho-murder-suspect-nabbed-genetic-genealogy-sites-work-law-enforcement

I note the sites, although they say that they don't release data to LE, apparently have an "opt out" vs an "opt in" for releasing data to law enforcement. I'm still concerned (and not just for this case) about LE creating fake accounts to get the DNA data. Both from the legal and scientific aspects.

[dogmush]

Very cursory, but more info on using the genealogy sites:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/idaho-murder-suspect-nabbed-genetic-genealogy-sites-work-law-enforcement

I note the sites, although they say that they don't release data to LE, apparently have an "opt out" vs an "opt in" for releasing data to law enforcement. I'm still concerned (and not just for this case) about LE creating fake accounts to get the DNA data. Both from the legal and scientific aspects.

And that's before you realize that there's no way they got a nice saliva sample off the crime scene, so they probably took a small sample and ran it through something like a PCR to get enought to send into their fake account.

[MillCreek]

The Seattle media had live coverage last night of a Pennsylvania State Police airplane flying into the Moscow-Pullman regional airport to deliver him to the county jail in Moscow.  That means that in the next day or so, the probable cause affidavit for his arrest will be released and we can see what sort of evidence is listed.  Idaho state law provides that the affidavit cannot be released until the defendant makes an initial appearance in an Idaho court and is served with the affidavit.

[MillCreek]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/hearing-document-release-likely-in-idaho-slayings-case/

The affidavit is out: the suspect's DNA was recovered on a knife sheath found at the crime scene, and a car matching the description of the suspect's car was seen in the area several times leading up to the crime, as well as cellphone data showing he was in the area.

[Hawkmoon]

I have to say that Corporal Payne writes a helluva lot better than most police officers.

[gunsmith]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/hearing-document-release-likely-in-idaho-slayings-case/

The affidavit is out: the suspect's DNA was recovered on a knife sheath found at the crime scene, and a car matching the description of the suspect's car was seen in the area several times leading up to the crime, as well as cellphone data showing he was in the area.

ah, I think ( if he's guilty/I think he is )  he was so used to theory and not practice that it didn't occur to him to wear the sheath on a good belt.
He could have simply painted it black to match his clothing .

thread drift, I have been wanting to collect vintage KABARS , I have one,  hopefully this will not affect availability

[sumpnz]

I just don’t get how someone so supposedly smart, and a criminology grad student, could fail to grasp how much evidence is available simply from having his cell phone on his person when surveiling his victims and then assaulting them.  I’m not about to commit any crimes, but if I were my cell phone would be staying behind, likely with some script running to make it look like I’m actively using it. 

[RoadKingLarry]

I just don’t get how someone so supposedly smart, and a criminology grad student, could fail to grasp how much evidence is available simply from having his cell phone on his person when surveiling his victims and then assaulting them.  I’m not about to commit any crimes, but if I were my cell phone would be staying behind, likely with some script running to make it look like I’m actively using it.

Dunning-Kreuger comes to mind

[Hawkmoon]

I'm curious about the fact that his father traveled to Washington to drive back to Pennsylvania with him. I'd like to know why. Did he tell his father that he had just murdered four people? Is his father an accessory after the fact? (Like the parents of that young man in Florida who murdered his girlfriend while they were van camping and then drove her van back across the country to his parents house. I think most people are fairly certain that his parents knew he was the killer, but they played innocent and made statements hoping for the young woman's safe return.)

[sumpnz]

I'm curious about the fact that his father traveled to Washington to drive back to Pennsylvania with him. I'd like to know why. Did he tell his father that he had just murdered four people? Is his father an accessory after the fact? (Like the parents of that young man in Florida who murdered his girlfriend while they were van camping and then drove her van back across the country to his parents house. I think most people are fairly certain that his parents knew he was the killer, but they played innocent and made statements hoping for the young woman's safe return.)

Most likely it was a long pre-planned thing probably from before the semester started just because a cross country drive is mind numbing and it’s hard to stay awake.  I’d bet the dad drove out to WSU with his son back in September, with the plan all along to drive home with his son.  Possible it was a last minute decision, and possible he was wanting to help hide evidence, but that’s low on the probability scale.

Also, in the FL case I’ve seen zero evidence the parents were accessories after the fact.  Lots of speculation, mostly driven by the girl’s family, who have a vested interest due to ongoing litigation, in making them look bad.  I admit, lots of things that look suspicious there, but that’s not evidence.

[Ben]

On the dad, it was preplanned for them to drive to PA for Christmas vacation. The full affidavit has a pretty damning chain of cell phone pings. If he turns out to be guilty, he's the worst criminology PhD student ever. Here is the full affidavit:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/05/us/read-the-idaho-affidavit/index.html

[MillCreek]

The other thing that I learned from the affidavit is that there sure are a lot of cameras all over the place that can be used for tracking.

[French G.]

The other thing that I learned from the affidavit is that there sure are a lot of cameras all over the place that can be used for tracking.

This and the feds weaseling around the genealogy site policies are the only news here. The other idiotic behavior whenever a white girl with a nice rack is killed is just valueless. This is not two months national news worthy.

[Hawkmoon]

Most likely it was a long pre-planned thing probably from before the semester started just because a cross country drive is mind numbing and it’s hard to stay awake.  I’d bet the dad drove out to WSU with his son back in September, with the plan all along to drive home with his son.  Possible it was a last minute decision, and possible he was wanting to help hide evidence, but that’s low on the probability scale.

:shrug:

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I've driven across the country solo many times and I enjoyed each and every trip.

[Ben]

:shrug:

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I've driven across the country solo many times and I enjoyed each and every trip.

I like doing long solo trips myself, but I think that is far in the minority if you do a poll (of normal people, not an APS poll).

[Perd Hapley]

This and the feds weaseling around the genealogy site policies are the only news here. The other idiotic behavior whenever a white girl with a nice rack is killed is just valueless. This is not two months national news worthy.

Conspiracy Bro I work with was complaining that more people follow Johnny Depp than follow whatever ID murders podcast he listens to. For some reason, it was favorite story. Which is odd, because he normally likes to make sure everyone knows he doesn't care or doesn't follow whatever current event is being discussed. 

[230RN]

I just don’t get how someone so supposedly smart, and a criminology grad student, could fail to grasp how much evidence is available simply from having his cell phone on his person when surveiling his victims and then assaulting them.  I’m not about to commit any crimes, but if I were my cell phone would be staying behind, likely with some script running to make it look like I’m actively using it. 

I hate to admit it, but I superstitiously keep time-stamped grocery and other receipts for a while in case I ever need an alibi.

Stupid, ain't it?  Yeah, I admit it.

Terry, 230RN

[Hawkmoon]

I hate to admit it, but I superstitiously keep time-stamped grocery and other receipts for a while in case I ever need an alibi.

Stupid, ain't it?  Yeah, I admit it.

Pro tip: If you stop at any branch of your favorite supermarket chain while scoping out a prospective crime scene ... don't flash your membership card to get the 5% discount.

[gunsmith]

  at work, the only place I now talk face to face with people ( since I had to stop going to local AA )  the girl in HR is really into true crime stuff , she's not really following the case as close as I am but at least enough to have a conversation.
     I find it very interesting myself, it is unusual to have 3 attractive girls killed in this sort of gruesome manner.
 Apparently, he killed the sportsdude by slicing his femoral artery from top of the leg to the ankles.
 I guess to prevent him from fighting as well as dying quickly but living long enough to see what was happening to his girlfriend.
 I have not heard what he did to the girls.
 After hearing what he did to sportsdude, I do not really want to visualize the girls injuries.
 What I really want to know is the motive, did he have some kind of conflict with the girls?
 

[sumpnz]

  at work, the only place I now talk face to face with people ( since I had to stop going to local AA )  the girl in HR is really into true crime stuff , she's not really following the case as close as I am but at least enough to have a conversation.
     I find it very interesting myself, it is unusual to have 3 attractive girls killed in this sort of gruesome manner.
 Apparently, he killed the sportsdude by slicing his femoral artery from top of the leg to the ankles.
 I guess to prevent him from fighting as well as dying quickly but living long enough to see what was happening to his girlfriend.
 I have not heard what he did to the girls.
 After hearing what he did to sportsdude, I do not really want to visualize the girls injuries.
 What I really want to know is the motive, did he have some kind of conflict with the girls?
 

My best guess is he creeped on one (or more) of the girls and she probably not only rejected him but mocked him over his interest in her.  The killings were his form of payback.

He was supposedly mocked relentlessly in high school.  Possibly college too.  Had a reputation for being creepily persistent with women he was attracted to. 

[Hawkmoon]

My best guess is he creeped on one (or more) of the girls and she probably not only rejected him but mocked him over his interest in her.  The killings were his form of payback.

At this point, that's as good a guess as any.

[Perd Hapley]

So it's the incel menace, then? 

[Hawkmoon]

So it's the incel menace, then? 

They used to say that, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." I guess that was before the advent of incels.

[sumpnz]

They used to say that, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." I guess that was before the advent of incels.

Only 40% of men historically succeeded in reproducing.  Incels are a long time issue, and why many civilizations would go to war.  They needed to reduce the incel population before they got uppity.