Author Topic: Turn in your gas stoves  (Read 6014 times)

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,718
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #100 on: May 09, 2023, 09:24:59 PM »
Are they going to eliminate gas ranges in commercial kitchens? Because the vast majority of commercial kitchens use gas ranges.

Most of the proposed legislation I've looked at have a blanket ban on NG in any new construction.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24,242
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #101 on: May 18, 2023, 11:16:04 AM »
Some animals are more equal than others.

Quote
In Palo Alto, California, local administrators have given an exemption to celebrity chef José Andrés that will allow his new restaurant to use gas stoves.

"Faced with a threat of a lawsuit, Palo Alto administrators have reversed their earlier decision and will now allow the new restaurant that chef José Andrés plans to open at Stanford Shopping Center to use natural gas," Palo Alto Online reported.

Simon Property Group (SPG) originally applied to build this restaurant in 2019, receiving local approvals before the city council revised the building codes which required all new buildings to be electric. The developer installed a gas line into the building before city officials instructed that the building would have to be updated to the new code.
Quote
The attorney continued by arguing how it would alter the "caliber" of the food and would force the five-star restaurant to change its menu.

"Without a gas connection and appliances, Zaytinya would be forced to alter its signature five-star menu, which it is unwilling to do," Shimko wrote. "Zaytinya cannot compromise the caliber of its cuisine and reputation, and if SPG cannot provide gas in Building EE, Zaytinya will likely choose not to locate within the City. This would be an unfortunate loss for the residents of Palo Alto, as well as a compensable loss for which SPG would be forced to seek redress."

California city gives celebrity chef José Andrés an exemption for his restaurant to use gas stoves
https://www.foxnews.com/media/california-city-gives-celebrity-chef-jose-andres-exemption-restaurant-use-gas-stoves
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,944
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #102 on: June 07, 2023, 07:59:34 AM »
Looks like the pettiness between the "Freedom Caucus" and the current speaker of the house, is going to get gas stoves banned.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gas-stove-procedural-defeat-puts-fragility-mccarthys-speakership/story?id=99881238

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,926
  • I'm an Extremist!
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,944
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #104 on: June 07, 2023, 08:36:51 AM »
Gas furnaces are next:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-preparing-target-americans-gas-furnaces-amid-stove-crackdown

Leftists better fall in love with nuclear, because that is going to take a lot of energy to heat the northern states. Move everyone south and you have the energy usage of cooling.

Electric everything, vehicles, stoves and furnaces. Better start spending trillions on upgrading electricity production and the grid.
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24,242
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2023, 08:46:29 AM »
Leftists better fall in love with nuclear, because that is going to take a lot of energy to heat the northern states. Move everyone south and you have the energy usage of cooling.

Electric everything, vehicles, stoves and furnaces. Better start spending trillions on upgrading electricity production and the grid.

In the idea leftest world you won't need electricity.



Meanwhile the elites

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,926
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2023, 09:01:27 AM »
Leftists better fall in love with nuclear, because that is going to take a lot of energy to heat the northern states. Move everyone south and you have the energy usage of cooling.

Electric everything, vehicles, stoves and furnaces. Better start spending trillions on upgrading electricity production and the grid.

It will be interesting in electricity starved California as well. I don't know the percentages, but I believe I never once lived in or visited anyplace in CA that wasn't gas heated. I was actually kind of shocked to see so much electric (via heat pump) heating here in Potatoho.

EDIT: I take that back - I remember a few places that had subfloor/baseboard heating, which was becoming popular with rich liberals who could afford the install.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24,242
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2023, 09:05:33 AM »
The choices they're setting us for us.
Do I charge the car so that I can go to work tomorrow or do I instead turn on the heat so that the kids don't freeze to death tonight? Honey, how are we doing on Soylent Green?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 11:07:55 AM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,027
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2023, 09:13:22 AM »
It will be interesting in electricity starved California as well. I don't know the percentages, but I believe I never once lived in or visited anyplace in CA that wasn't gas heated. I was actually kind of shocked to see so much electric (via heat pump) heating here in Potatoho.
I remember when CA was experiencing blackouts and brownouts under Gov. Gray Davis. Someone in California proposed - seriously - that the Federal government require Nevada to send California all the extra electricity they needed. If Nevada consequently came up short, Idaho, Utah, and Arizona would be required to send them enough power to replace what they were going to send to California. Colorado and New Mexico in turn would have to make up any resulting shortages in Idaho, Utah, and Arizona. And so forth and so on - their proposal involved California calling the shots on electrical distribution all the way East as far as Indiana.

This proposal went nowhere, but I I'm positive that it's still in someone's desk, ready to be dusted off and resubmitted as soon as their all-electric mandates start having the unintended - but entirely foreseeable - negative consequences.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,256
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2023, 09:21:46 AM »
Those bills weren't going anywhere, they were moot anyway.  They would not have passed in the Senate.  And if by some miracle they did, Biden would have vetoed them.
This provided the folks disappointed with McCarthy's leadership an opportunity to express their opinions.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,944
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2023, 09:22:37 AM »
I was actually kind of shocked to see so much electric (via heat pump) heating here in Potatoho.

It takes a lot to put in a NG infrastructure, I'm guessing at the time Idaho wasn't that populated when the Rural Electrification Act occurred, and folks still heated with wood/coal. Low population density means low smog indexes too. So, a carryover from stuff that happened 70-80 years ago.
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,944
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2023, 09:24:38 AM »
Those bills weren't going anywhere, they were moot anyway.  They would not have passed in the Senate.  And if by some miracle they did, Biden would have vetoed them.

Yes, but it still shows due to political pettiness that the conservatives will vote against their own principles to burn someone deemed less conservative to try and prove a point.

They need to take a lesson from the democrats and vote in lockstep when needed.
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,256
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2023, 09:25:01 AM »
It takes a lot to put in a NG infrastructure, I'm guessing at the time Idaho wasn't that populated when the Rural Electrification Act occurred, and folks still heated with wood/coal. Low population density means low smog indexes too. So, a carryover from stuff that happened 70-80 years ago.

Idaho has always benefitted from the abundant hydropower in the PNW.  And of course, lefties are doing their best to tear down those dams that provide the hydropower in that region.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,256
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2023, 09:26:58 AM »
Yes, but it still shows due to political pettiness that the conservatives will vote against their own principles to burn someone deemed less conservative to try and prove a point.

They need to take a lesson from the democrats and vote in lockstep when needed.

The Republicans aren't called "The Stupid Party" for nothing.  That moniker has been well earned.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,926
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2023, 09:30:08 AM »
Idaho has always benefitted from the abundant hydropower in the PNW.  And of course, lefties are doing their best to tear down those dams that provide the hydropower in that region.

Yup. Super cheap and abundant electricity here. And yeah, even one of the Republican congressmen is pushing for dam removal, probably due to contributions from the recreational fishing orgs.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24,242
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #115 on: June 07, 2023, 09:57:41 AM »


As a side note I've lost count of the number of times when responding to a "the computer won't turn on" call only to find this under the desk.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

sumpnz

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,985
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #116 on: June 07, 2023, 10:19:32 AM »
With the push to electrify everything, charby is right that the left needs to embrace realistic means of producing the electricity needed to power everything.  Otherwise even the average person will revolt.  That average person might be willing to go along with the idea of climate change, and that “fossil fuels” are bad.  But they won’t appreciate being made to chose between heat in the winter (or ac in summer) and being able to cook dinner or being able to drive to work, etc.  Being forced to decide things like that, instead of having it all, makes them cranky.

I’ve done the math on charging BEV big rig trucks.  If the whole fleet were converted to BEV it would take 50-100% of the total national electricity supply from 2022 to keep them running down the road.  There is no way we will be able to double or more electricity production with wind and solar.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32,825
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #117 on: June 07, 2023, 11:06:39 AM »
Trying to connect the left to anything resembling "reality" these days is a lost cause.  There are a lot of things that would be acceptable if it were well run and well designed, that never happens. 

As far as the Republicans, I don't know what else is in this bill.  If they were just going to pull out the "gas oven" part, it makes me wonder what else they are rolling over for. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,107
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #118 on: June 07, 2023, 11:07:29 AM »
Wait, if we're all eating zee booogs, do we even need to heat them up?

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,718
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #119 on: June 07, 2023, 11:51:47 AM »
In the idea leftest world you won't need electricity.



Meanwhile the elites




Nope, way off. I see smoke from probable cooking fires. Those also will not be allowed, You can eat your bugs and grass raw as nature intended.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Pb

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,500
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #120 on: June 08, 2023, 12:39:16 PM »

Nope, way off. I see smoke from probable cooking fires. Those also will not be allowed, You can eat your bugs and grass raw as nature intended.

I saw a map of air pollution, as measured by particulates.  It was very low in the USA... and I was surprised at how bad it was in Africa... I am guessing it may be due to cooking fires, which are actually very unhealthy, especially inside a house.

Here's the map I saw:


RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,718
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #121 on: June 08, 2023, 04:49:22 PM »
Anybody paying attention to the wildfires in Canada?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-wildfire-smoke-maps-air-quality-alerts/

I think the US needs to sue Canada for the pollution.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

sumpnz

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,985
Re: Turn in your gas stoves
« Reply #122 on: June 08, 2023, 05:05:05 PM »
Anybody paying attention to the wildfires in Canada?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canadian-wildfire-smoke-maps-air-quality-alerts/

I think the US needs to sue Canada for the pollution.

That kind of thing is a near annual occurrence out west. 

They keep trying to blame climate change but whatever small increase in temperatures may have occurred (and yearly variations are at least an order of magnitude larger anyway) can’t be driving the problem.  The overzealous firefighting of the last century, and the more recent bans on slash burning, and environmentalists lawsuits to stop salvage logging of insect and fire killed trees have resulted in huge increases in the amount of fuel for fires.