HOW DID CONCEALED WEAPONS BECOME SO EVIL?

[dogmush]

I've mentioned here before the "slap in the face" wakeup call I had when I took my first tactical pistol class (versus how proud I was of myself putting everything in the "X" standing still on the range). It made me a big believer in training for anyone who wants to use a firearm for self-defense. I will always strongly urge people to take at least a first tier pistol class and then continue to train either in classes or on their own.

From the "rights" perspective though, it's simply not my business if someone wants to buy a pistol and a 50 round box of ammo and keep them both in their nightstand untouched for the next ten years.

Yep.  It's our job as 2A advocates to mentor and help newcomers to the community.  That absolutely includes communicating best practices, offering teaching days, inviting folks out to the more challenging parts of the sport, and recommending professional training.  it does not include supporting gatekeeping measures or added requirements prior to allowing the exercise of a right.

I used to say "If the DNC wouldn't like it as a requirement to vote, it shouldn't be a requirement to carry a gun.", but I'm starting to think we should tighten voting up a bit.

[230RN]

Yep.  It's our job as 2A advocates to mentor and help newcomers to the community.  That absolutely includes communicating best practices, offering teaching days, inviting folks out to the more challenging parts of the sport, and recommending professional training.  it does not include supporting gatekeeping measures or added requirements prior to allowing the exercise of a right.

I used to say "If the DNC wouldn't like it as a requirement to vote, it shouldn't be a requirement to carry a gun.", but I'm starting to think we should tighten voting up a bit.

Do I hear a Halleluyah?

How about an Amen?

Unfortunately, with the urbanization of the US, you're no longer likely to have brothers, uncles, fathers and friends who can show you the ropes on firearms. 

Terry, 230RN

[Pb]

I used to say "If the DNC wouldn't like it as a requirement to vote, it shouldn't be a requirement to carry a gun.", but I'm starting to think we should tighten voting up a bit.

I agree.  Only net taxpayers who are not government employees should be allowed to vote.

[RoadKingLarry]

I agree.  Only net taxpayers who are not government employees should be allowed to vote.

So, military should not be allowed to vote?

I'd be happy if only citizens were allowed to vote.

[Pb]

So, military should not be allowed to vote?

I'd be happy if only citizens were allowed to vote.

Good question.  I'm not sure about that one.

[dogmush]

Should have put a sarcasm emoji on that comment.  The "who should vote" question is probably it's own thread, and I feel like we've done that dance around here a few times.  I know I've read Pb's opinion on it at least once before.

[Pb]

Yes, we have.

[Devonai]

I've mentioned here before the "slap in the face" wakeup call I had when I took my first tactical pistol class (versus how proud I was of myself putting everything in the "X" standing still on the range). It made me a big believer in training for anyone who wants to use a firearm for self-defense. I will always strongly urge people to take at least a first tier pistol class and then continue to train either in classes or on their own.

The first handgun I ever shot in my life, a Beretta 92FS, I couldn't hit a pie plate at 7 yards. I legit thought I was disabled. Fortunately with the purchase of my own 92FS I sought to correct that state, and kept it up until I had some 15,000 rounds through it. My only formal training was with the US Army and Air Force pistol qual, of which the latter is actually pretty dynamic and challenging. Shot expert every time.

[Pb]

 
Note that I have met resistance on this, the  "Billy The Kid" theory:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?posts/12499265/

Terry, 230RN

I agree with your Billy the Kid theory.  The right to keep and bear arms is based on the right to resistance against an abusive government.  Since 1900's or so (at the very least) governments have murderered far more people than civilian criminals.  It isn't even close.  Government killings are a greater threat than garden variety murders.  Civilian ownership of weapons helps keep governments tame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

There is the possibility that strict gun control might reduce civilian murder rates in some jurisdictions (the data is very unclear).

However, this would deprive us of our insurance police against government abuse.

At this point, I think our official militia system should be revived, and the USA should create a Swiss-style militia if possible.  A smaller professional militia, and a huge armed civilian militia should be the safest.

[MechAg94]

The first handgun I ever shot in my life, a Beretta 92FS, I couldn't hit a pie plate at 7 yards. I legit thought I was disabled. Fortunately with the purchase of my own 92FS I sought to correct that state, and kept it up until I had some 15,000 rounds through it. My only formal training was with the US Army and Air Force pistol qual, of which the latter is actually pretty dynamic and challenging. Shot expert every time.

I think I was the same without the military service.  Never shot pistols all that much growing up.  Mostly 22 rifles.   I could shoot with a rifle pretty decent.  After I bought my first centerfire pistol, I just started shooting at a local range.  Bad at first.  Got better with a lot of practice.  IMO, the best thing shooters can do is stick with one gun for a while and get really consistent with that one trigger. 

[MechAg94]

I agree with your Billy the Kid theory.  The right to keep and bear arms is based on the right to resistance against an abusive government.  Since 1900's or so (at the very least) governments have murderered far more people than civilian criminals.  It isn't even close.  Government killings are a greater threat than garden variety murders.  Civilian ownership of weapons helps keep governments tame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

There is the possibility that strict gun control might reduce civilian murder rates in some jurisdictions (the data is very unclear).

However, this would deprive us of our insurance police against government abuse.

At this point, I think our official militia system should be revived, and the USA should create a Swiss-style militia if possible.  A smaller professional militia, and a huge armed civilian militia should be the safest.

Gun control always assumes that restricting guns in law abiding hands will reduce the number of guns in criminal hands which is a very questionable relationship at best. 

The other problem is the same people who fear guns seem to always hate holding people responsible for their own actions (soft on crime) while also hating people taking responsibility for their own safety (self defense).  It is difficult to find a location where gun control was enacted without those two things also being done.

[Pb]

Yes, you are usually right about that.  In the USA pro-gun control usually equals soft on crime.  The left has moved to positively adoring criminals, especially racial minorities.

Very different in in Singapore.  It is a gun hating country with severe punishment of criminals (possible death penalty for armed robbery, a fantastic idea in my opinion).

It also has a miniscule crime rate.

Not an especially free country though.

I want both freedom and severe punishment for violent crime.  Being menaced by criminals definitely does not enhance freedom.