The ATF Pistol Brace Rule

[cordex]

For the reason I am making an SBR, I initially typed in "Forced to because of arbitrary and capricious rulings on the part of the ATF" but remembered I'm supposed to say "All lawful purposes".

[dogmush]

Did yours go through?

I'm hearing from some guys the site seems to be experiencing traffic related issues.

[cordex]

Did yours go through?

I'm hearing from some guys the site seems to be experiencing traffic related issues.

I submitted both of them last night.  The first one went right through.  The second one had an error when I first tried to submit it but worked the second time around.

I've just got to mail CLEO notifications and fingerprints now.

[WLJ]

Add another group

Guns & Gadgets 2nd Amendment News
Guns & Gadgets 2nd Amendment News
48 seconds ago
One Update just came in regarding the pistol brace fiasco. Second Amendment Foundation just got word that their members are covered by the injunction in their case as well. Same vagueness applies here that applied to the FPC injunctio

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxF32L6LZtYXh6g8LfV8qF7Z-wmNpBXVEy

[WLJ]

Now GOA

ANOTHER Injunction In Pistol Brace Rule Case (GOA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-qU_eglv80

[Ben]

There still seems to be attorney disagreement on if this is just for FPC members in the 5th Circuit or not. Anything like that regarding the other lawsuits? Which court were they presented in?

[WLJ]

Lets play am I a felon roulette.

I hate the ATF

[MechAg94]

 

[MechAg94], thank you for your generous support.

And we've automatically entered you into our giveaway.

You are now a member of the Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC). Welcome aboard!

Made a donation to GOA also.  Even if it doesn't hold up, they are both spending money trying to stop this stuff.  I give money to SAF every year so I should have one of their cards around somewhere. 

[MechAg94]

There still seems to be attorney disagreement on if this is just for FPC members in the 5th Circuit or not. Anything like that regarding the other lawsuits? Which court were they presented in?

I would suggest still removing braces for the time being.  The injunctions are a sign the courts are not taking the ATF's side on this.  Just not sure how long it will take for this to shake out.

[Lennyjoe]

So is today the day the JBT start kicking down doors?

[WLJ]

Hide your dogs

[Ben]

Hide your dogs

Steve is ready for them.

[WLJ]

[Lennyjoe]

Rumor has it only ~250,000 pistol brace stamps have been issued.  That leaves well over 10+ million felons out there….

[HankB]

Rumor has it only ~250,000 pistol brace stamps have been issued.  That leaves well over 10+ million felons out there….

Or 10+ million people who all either removed their braces or put on a longer barrel.

I'm sure EVERYONE who bought a then-legal braced firearm got the word of the retroactive reclassification and the BATmen's disavowal of the bureau's multiple previous written findings to the contrary.

[Lennyjoe]

Or 10+ million people who all either removed their braces or put on a longer barrel.

Geez….you’re no fun….  

[Boomhauer]

We talked about it in the safety meeting at work yesterday

[dogmush]

We talked about it in the safety meeting at work yesterday

In the context of "we have all this large equipment that could have armor welded on."?

[Ben]

Or 10+ million people who all either removed their braces or put on a longer barrel.

I'll bet those would be low numbers. With the caveat that (pulling the number out of my ass) 75% of "device owners" don't even know about the rule: Those who know of it likely know by now that you have to remove and destroy the brace* or put the longer barrel on. Either one costs money, either via destroying your property or the expense of fitting a new barrel or buying a new upper. I'd be more inclined to bet on non-compliance either as an FU, or to wait for the lawsuits.

* One could also argue that many owners do in fact think you can just remove the brace, since they watched the clip of the guy on the TV versus reading the documentation.

[HankB]

Geez….you’re no fun….  

Fun? You want fun?  Consider this: "Nothing's illegal unless you're caught."   

(Random thought: I wonder how many BATmen are assigned to reviewing Youtube and other social media websites, looking for old/current/future violations?)   

[WLJ]

The ATF told The Reload on Friday it has received just over a quarter million applications to register pistol-brace-equipped firearms…

That number represents just a fraction of the braced guns believed to have been sold in the decade since the ATF first classified a version as outside the scope of the NFA. In the impact assessment for the rule, the ATF estimated that three to seven million devices exist. However, the Congressional Research Service puts the number much higher at somewhere between 10 and 40 million.

That puts the registration rate for pistol-brace-equipped guns at between .6 percent and eight percent.

Longnecker noted that owners of the affected guns could also comply with the rule by either dismantling the firearms and destroying the braces or turning them over to the ATF. He said the agency does not know how many Americans may have taken those routes.

Massive Noncompliance: ATF Says Only 250,000 Braced Pistol Owners Registered Their Guns
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/massive-noncompliance-atf-says-only-250000-braced-pistol-owners-registered-their-guns/

As a side note I'm somewhat puzzled by why we can't narrow the number sold down to something better than to 3-7 million or even 10-40 million. A spread of 37  million, really? I'm inclined to believe the lower numbers and think the higher numbers is a highly exaggeration BS number for effect. I'm having a hard time believing there could be upwards of 40 million braces out there.

[HankB]

. . . I'm having a hard time believing there could be upwards of 40 million braces out there.

Same here. I've seen enough to recognize that they're "in common use" and can readily believe they number well into the millions. But 40 million?

While there's well north of 20 million AR-pattern firearms out there, I'm sure the preponderance are rifles & carbines. Add in other likely candidates for a brace (AKs, Skorpions, B&T, HK, etc.) and I'd still be surprised if the total of braced pistols reached 40 million - that would mean about 1 in 10 of all privately owned firearms was a braced pistol.

I don't think so.

[WLJ]

No matter which figure you believe it still means the vast majority of braces were not registered.

3M - 8.3% registered
7M - 3.5%
10M - 2.5%
40M - 0.6 %

[Boomhauer]

What catagory were braced pistols transferred under with the 4473s? It could account for not having an accurate count, as well as not having a good number for what stripped lowers get built into.

[HankB]

No matter which figure you believe it still means the vast majority of braces were not registered.

3M - 8.3% registered
7M - 3.5%
10M - 2.5%
40M - 0.6 %

Massive non compliance - and IMHO it's not primarily an act of defiance, it's that people don't know that the BATmen went ahead and made a retroactive change to both their interpretation of the law and - seemingly - changed the law itself, non-legislatively. And despite the old adage "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" . . . with all the millions upon millions of words now making up the body of "the law" . . . I'd say it IS an excuse.

Unless all manufacturers provide sales numbers of braces sold (so we can add them up) I don't know how we'd ever come up with even a realistic ballpark estimate of how many are out there. And since braces were not and are not regulated components (like firearm receivers) I don't know if there even ARE comprehensive records to be had.