Author Topic: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct  (Read 11365 times)

cordex

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2023, 02:56:54 PM »
I exist primarily as an ugly giant bag of mostly water. However, that existence exemplifies the abhorrent nature of things which might be. Derivations from otherwise tentative norms is, of course, codified by sessions of listless buffoonery, realized by normative affirmations thereof. To lay claim otherwise is a rejection of your reality, with which I substitute my own.
Have you heard the good news of our Lord and Savior J. P. Sartre (1901-1980)?

cordex

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2023, 02:58:15 PM »
In America immediately after the 1776 revolution, when there was no governmental structure, everything proceeded calmly and with propriety, due to the need for commerce to transpire.
It seems your comprehension of history is as lacking as your philosophy.

Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2023, 03:01:56 PM »
You have the same trouble Sartre did, only more so.

Grassroots violence on an individual level is simply self-defense.  In your utopia, only those capable of effective self-defense (or proactive self-defense) are likely to prosper in the long term.  Those incapable of mounting an effective self-defense would then be left to be victimized by anyone of a mind to.  And, my friend, there will be plenty who have a mind to.  Ultimately those capable of effective self-defense will band together with some of those less capable and provide them with a level of protection, or at the very least retribution after the fact.  After some retribution goes too far, or is applied where it shouldn't be, someone will get the great idea of codifying the actions that will result in retribution, as well as the extent of force that is acceptable in various situations.  By then your utopia will have rediscovered law.

Or collapsed.
You predict all of this dire possibility, while, all the while, we have collectively have never been reflectively free, and, hence, have no true idea what will be.

Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2023, 03:05:12 PM »
It seems your comprehension of history is as lacking as your philosophy.
Precisely what is lacking regarding my original post!

MechAg94

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2023, 03:06:54 PM »
In America immediately after the 1776 revolution, when there was no governmental structure, everything proceeded calmly and with propriety, due to the need for commerce to transpire.
At that time, there were still the 13 colonies which had their own laws and law enforcement structure.  It wasn't complete anarchy.  They did run into a few problems later since the Articles of Confederation didn't provide the best means to settle disputes or deal with outside threats. 

I seem to have heard of people referring to "The Law" when talking about the government or the authorities.  I don't like it much as it tends to get confusing.  When talking about the laws versus the government law enforcement bureaucracy, it helps to use specific and separate terms.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

RoadKingLarry

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2023, 03:07:41 PM »
I'm going to the grocery now. Should I take the Glock or the Smith & Wesson?

Yes.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Perd Hapley

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2023, 03:21:32 PM »
I'm going to the grocery now. Should I take the Glock or the Smith & Wesson?

Yes.


I recommend the Glock & Wesson semi-automatic assault revolver. Best of both worlds.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2023, 03:25:16 PM »
I recommend the Glock & Wesson semi-automatic assault revolver. Best of both worlds.

The SavChester AR-74 Belt-Fed Lever Action is a much better choice.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
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MechAg94

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2023, 03:26:32 PM »
The SavChester AR-74 Belt-Fed Lever Action is a much better choice.

Brad
That would be FM Products AR-74 but it isn't belt fed.   =)
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Perd Hapley

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2023, 03:28:05 PM »
The SavChester AR-74 Belt-Fed Lever Action is a much better choice.

Brad

But it's against the law.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2023, 03:33:17 PM »
But it's against the law.

Not if the shoulder thing that goes up is pinned.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Hawkmoon

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2023, 03:48:00 PM »
In America immediately after the 1776 revolution, when there was no governmental structure, everything proceeded calmly and with propriety, due to the need for commerce to transpire.

But in America immediately after the revolution, there was a governmental structure, and there were laws. The national, federal government was in its infancy, but each state (which had previously existed as a British colony) had a government and a system of laws.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

cordex

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2023, 03:59:03 PM »
You predict all of this dire possibility, while, all the while, we have collectively have never been reflectively free, and, hence, have no true idea what will be.
Okay.

cordex

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2023, 04:00:25 PM »
Precisely what is lacking regarding my original post!
Yes, that is precisely what is lacking in your original post!  And later ones as well!

Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2023, 04:10:26 PM »
Yes, that is precisely what is lacking in your original post!  And later ones as well!
The original and all subsequent posts set forth Sartrean thought, which thought is not lacking.

Naming Sartre's internationally accepted concept of human freedom as lacking vainly attempts to put yourself ahead of Sartre...

RocketMan

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2023, 04:11:20 PM »
The SavChester AR-74 Belt-Fed Lever Action is a much better choice.

Brad

Is that the assault rifle version of the AR-74 Belt-fed lever action?
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

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Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Nick1911

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #91 on: January 25, 2023, 04:13:38 PM »
The original and all subsequent posts set forth Sartrean thought, which thought is not lacking.

That's just like, your opinion, man...

Naming Sartre's internationally accepted concept of human freedom as lacking vainly attempts to put yourself ahead of Sartre...

Intelligent humans should not appeal to authority, it is a logic fallacy.

Nick1911

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2023, 04:14:08 PM »
Yes, that is precisely what is lacking in your original post!  And later ones as well!

I was drinking coffee when I read this....

dogmush

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2023, 04:21:04 PM »
The original and all subsequent posts set forth Sartrean thought, which thought is not lacking.

Well, they seem to attempt to set forth Sartrean thought.  I'm not sure they succeed.  It's been a while since I read up on this branch of existentialist philosophy, but I recall that other folks could make it basically intelligible, which your posts fail to do.

Naming Sartre's internationally accepted concept of human freedom as lacking vainly attempts to put yourself ahead of Sartre...
Internationally accepted might be selling it a little strong.  "Internationally known as one version of an midsized offshoot of philosophy" is probably more accurate.  The whole "Condemned to Freedom" schtick is a bit pretentious, and definitely not universally accepted.

Brad Johnson

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2023, 04:38:19 PM »
Is that the assault rifle version of the AR-74 Belt-fed lever action?

Only if it has the high-capacity Murder Death Kill accessory grip.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #95 on: January 25, 2023, 04:48:28 PM »
Quote
Naming Sartre's internationally accepted concept of human freedom as lacking vainly attempts to put yourself ahead of Sartre...

I have to admit that I needed to refresh my memory on Sartre. I had very briefly looked at his writings some 40 years ago and couldn't for the life of me remember why I found him distasteful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Sartre

Quote
Sartre held that the Soviet Union was a "revolutionary" state working for the betterment of humanity and could be criticized only for failing to live up to its own ideals,
Quote
Sartre believed at this time in the moral superiority of the Eastern Bloc,
How many millions did they murder in the betterment of humanity?

Quote
Sartre went to Cuba in the 1960s to meet Fidel Castro and spoke with Ernesto "Che" Guevara. After Guevara's death, Sartre would declare him to be "not only an intellectual but also the most complete human being of our age" and the "era's most perfect man".

Any fan of Guevara is either insane, evil or a combination of the two.

Bosco1, I fear you may have come the wrong place to sell your particular flavor of communism. I really don't think this crowd is buying
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #96 on: January 25, 2023, 04:51:37 PM »
Well, they seem to attempt to set forth Sartrean thought.  I'm not sure they succeed.  It's been a while since I read up on this branch of existentialist philosophy, but I recall that other folks could make it basically intelligible, which your posts fail to do.
Internationally accepted might be selling it a little strong.  "Internationally known as one version of an midsized offshoot of philosophy" is probably more accurate.  The whole "Condemned to Freedom" schtick is a bit pretentious, and definitely not universally accepted.
Everything you say is merely pure unsupported assertion; and, what you have not done is overthrow the central texts from Sartre which I rely on in 3. of the original post, which, of course, you cannot possibly do...

Perd Hapley

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #97 on: January 25, 2023, 04:59:29 PM »
But in America immediately after the revolution, there was a governmental structure, and there were laws. The national, federal government was in its infancy, but each state (which had previously existed as a British colony) had a government and a system of laws.

Indeed. It was fundamental to the Patriot movement that they could, and should, rule themselves with their own assemblies, at least in some matters. Their objection to new taxation was less about the tax rate or amount, and very much about who had the right to tax them. Or just read the Declaration, where they cite the King’s interference with their local government and laws. Unless I misunderstand, the people that declared independence were representatives of the governments of each colony.

Theoretically, at least, it could be argued the states/colonies were still under British rule until the treaty of 1783. By then, the Articles of Confederation had been ratified.

I'm not seeing the anarchy.
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Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #98 on: January 25, 2023, 04:59:41 PM »
I have to admit that I needed to refresh my memory on Sartre. I had very briefly looked at his writings some 40 years ago and couldn't for the life of me remember why I found him distasteful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Sartre
How many millions did they murder in the betterment of humanity?

Any fan of Guevara is either insane, evil or a combination of the two.

Bosco1, I fear you may have come the wrong place to sell your particular flavor of communism. I really don't think this crowd is buying
You are unthinkingly employing an argumentum ad hominum against Sartre, which indeed will not fly.
I am not a communist fool!  I am merely employing Sartre's theory of freedom...

Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #99 on: January 25, 2023, 05:05:15 PM »
That's just like, your opinion, man...

Intelligent humans should not appeal to authority, it is a logic fallacy.
If you would actually study the texts I employ from Sartre, and, compare them to the way you actually originate  your acts, you would agree with them.  I am not appealing to authority here; I am merely employing what are clearly true descriptions of the origination of human acts...