Author Topic: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct  (Read 11423 times)

zxcvbob

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #300 on: January 27, 2023, 12:31:50 AM »
You freaks are disagreeing with every single solitary thing I write!
Law is written primarily to determine persons NOT to act on such and such a wise; tell me I am wrong about law being written to determine persons NOT to do things, and, I will be certain you are purposely continually screwing with me.

Don't take it personally; everything you say is demonstrably wrong.  So they are not attacking you, just attacking your nonsense.  Most of it starts out okay, then goes way too far.  Perhaps you don't understand causality, or determinism?  HTH =)
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Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #301 on: January 27, 2023, 07:42:12 AM »
Don't take it personally; everything you say is demonstrably wrong.  So they are not attacking you, just attacking your nonsense.  Most of it starts out okay, then goes way too far.  Perhaps you don't understand causality, or determinism?  HTH =)
So, if absolutely everything I say is demonstrably wrong, then, if you are so precise, demonstrate how and why something I said is wrong!

HeroHog

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #302 on: January 27, 2023, 09:28:36 AM »
(His mother was a hamster and his father stank of elderberries!)
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cordex

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #303 on: January 27, 2023, 09:56:33 AM »
So, if absolutely everything I say is demonstrably wrong, then, if you are so precise, demonstrate how and why something I said is wrong!
You've had a bunch of things pointed out as wrong, and even had them explained to you at some length.

You regularly conflate Sartre's concept of internal freedom as the genesis of action which can be independent of circumstance with the fact that humans react to circumstance as a matter of course.  This seems to be one of the more fundamental of your logical failures.  You simply don't even remotely understand the source material you're basing your entire argument on.
You state without support or evidence that law and other codes of behavior are intended by their creators and enforcers to fill the role of human will as opposed to the reality that they are designed to provide a transactional punishment for misbehavior and ideally discourage people from making the choice to commit crime.
You put forward the discredited tabula rasa theory of human development.
You advocate overthrowing that which is when you admit you have no theory, no plan, no reason to assume what will take its place will be superior in any respect.
You claim that in 1776 there was no law (false) and that "everything proceeded calmly and with propriety" (also false).
etc.

You've been shown - carefully and with more than a little patience - specifically where you've made errors.  You've tended to blunder past those critiques.

Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #304 on: January 27, 2023, 10:35:10 AM »
You've had a bunch of things pointed out as wrong, and even had them explained to you at some length.

You regularly conflate Sartre's concept of internal freedom as the genesis of action which can be independent of circumstance with the fact that humans react to circumstance as a matter of course. 
The reactions to circumstance are not originated and performed causally by said given circumstances. One's ontological freedom is the only possible originative source of one's action.
I have realized that my intellectual instrumentation is twentieth century efficient, and, that yours, for instance, is merely sixteenth/seventeenth century efficient.  You absolutely cannot possibly understand what human freedom actually is; it is in a real sense absolute in its priority to and independence from all given states of affairs; given circumstances are not action-able beings which can causally move humans to act, they are dead, inanimate, phenomenon. Human freedom is the only source of action. You have not had the time or the concentration even to comprehend your own freedom, i.e., you are not reflectively free.

cordex

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #305 on: January 27, 2023, 10:40:08 AM »
The reactions to circumstance are not originated and performed causally by said given circumstances. One's ontological freedom is the only possible originative source of one's action.
I totally agree.  Which is why law isn't trying to horn in on that as you continually claim.  If law were expected originate action in and of itself then no enforcement mechanism would need to exist.

lee n. field

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #306 on: January 27, 2023, 10:55:30 AM »
Quote
"Conceptual units?" Bates, I was beginning to realize, never pulled up a subtitle if she could help it.

James nodded. "Like processing a line of text word by word, instead of looking at complete phrases. The smaller the units, the faster they can be reconfigured; it gives you very fast semantic reflexes. The down side is that it's difficult to maintain the same level of logical consistency, since the patterns within the larger structure are more likely to get shuffled."

"Whoa." Szpindel straightened, all thoughts of liquids and centipetal force forgotten.

"All I'm saying is, we aren't necessarily dealing with deliberate deception here. An entity who parses information at one scale might not be aware of inconsistencies on another; it might not even have conscious access to that level."


https://rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

Quote
Sartre's concept of internal freedom as the genesis of action

I don't have time (enough free time in remaining probable lifetime) to read Sarte.  And I'd rather read Augustine, anyway.
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WLJ

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #307 on: January 27, 2023, 11:04:52 AM »
Going to be blunt here
I think part of your frustrated is perhaps deep down you've realized you have wasted decades of your life on nonsense that has been debunked time and time again and that virtually no one else believes. Your reactions to disagreement have been that of someone who doubts what he's preaching. Get your head out of the haze of 1960s and try to enjoy life while you sill have the time in your remaining years to do so. It's suppose to warm up today.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #308 on: January 27, 2023, 11:55:40 AM »
I have realized that my intellectual instrumentation is twentieth century efficient, and, that yours, for instance, is merely sixteenth/seventeenth century efficient.  You absolutely cannot possibly understand what human freedom actually is; it is in a real sense absolute in its priority to and independence from all given states of affairs; given circumstances are not action-able beings which can causally move humans to act, they are dead, inanimate, phenomenon. Human freedom is the only source of action. You have not had the time or the concentration even to comprehend your own freedom, i.e., you are not reflectively free.

Time out, Duane.

You have criticized us for "attacking" you rather than your argument, yet as this discussion has progressed and your failure to win any converts has become more evident, you have more and more resorted to insulting us as a substitute for re-framing your argument in a way that might have a better chance of prevailing. I'm afraid my sixteenth/seventeenth intellect is not impressed by your towering twentieth century intellectual instrument. Perhaps you would find more fertile ground on a forum populated by twenty-first century intellects. Why are you wasting your valuable time casting pearls before us intellectual swine?
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Bogie

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #309 on: January 27, 2023, 12:09:48 PM »
So, how much did all this "knowledge" cost you, and are you still paying for it?
 
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Brad Johnson

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #310 on: January 27, 2023, 12:25:07 PM »
I have realized that my intellectual instrumentation is twentieth century efficient...

*looks at calendar and confirms year*
  ???

Brad
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Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #311 on: January 27, 2023, 02:53:56 PM »
I totally agree.  Which is why law isn't trying to horn in on that as you continually claim.  If law were expected originate action in and of itself then no enforcement mechanism would need to exist.
The legislators. the judges; the nitwit police, all make it their business to horn in on my life via this bull called law. Where have you been?! Yes, all of these persons claim the law determines, causes, moves them, binds and determines them to continually screw with us. That is their claim, but, the reality is that they are not in fact moved by the law to act against the citizenry.                     

cordex

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #312 on: January 27, 2023, 02:58:53 PM »
The legislators. the judges; the nitwit police, all make it their business to horn in on my life via this bull called law.
That may all be true, but that is a separate issue.  That doesn't tie into all the other philosophical stuff you've raised whatsoever.
Where have you been?! Yes, all of these persons claim the law determines, causes, moves them, binds and determines them to continually screw with us. That is their claim, but, the reality is that they are not in fact moved by the law to act against the citizenry.
You're arguing against a strawman.

Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #313 on: January 27, 2023, 03:00:32 PM »
Going to be blunt here
I think part of your frustrated is perhaps deep down you've realized you have wasted decades of your life on nonsense that has been debunked time and time again and that virtually no one else believes. Your reactions to disagreement have been that of someone who doubts what he's preaching. Get your head out of the haze of 1960s and try to enjoy life while you sill have the time in your remaining years to do so. It's suppose to warm up today.
You are a damned nitwit!  Get off my case, fool!

zxcvbob

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #314 on: January 27, 2023, 03:06:03 PM »
You are a damned nitwit!  Get off my case, fool!

This looks like you are trying to get banned, as if that would somehow prove your point or your righteousness. (self-righteousness)
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WLJ

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #315 on: January 27, 2023, 03:08:54 PM »
You are a damned nitwit!  Get off my case, fool!

If I'm wrong why are you still here?
Just want to spend the remaining years of your life arguing with everyone on the internet?
Get outside, breath the fresh air instead of arguing, the sun is out
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Nick1911

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #316 on: January 27, 2023, 03:13:03 PM »
Gentlemen, let's get away from personal attacks and focus on debating the issue at hand.  We can disagree strongly with each other and remain civil and polite.  =)

As a reminder, the forum rules are here

cordex

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #317 on: January 27, 2023, 03:15:11 PM »
Sorry, Nick, I may have gotten carried away as well.

Bosco1, I apologize if I've been rude to you.  I consider your reasoning to be fallacious and your arguments unconvincing, but that is no excuse to be impolite.

Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #318 on: January 27, 2023, 03:20:01 PM »
Time out, Duane.

You have criticized us for "attacking" you rather than your argument, yet as this discussion has progressed and your failure to win any converts has become more evident, you have more and more resorted to insulting us as a substitute for re-framing your argument in a way that might have a better chance of prevailing. I'm afraid my sixteenth/seventeenth intellect is not impressed by your towering twentieth century intellectual instrument. Perhaps you would find more fertile ground on a forum populated by twenty-first century intellects. Why are you wasting your valuable time casting pearls before us intellectual swine?
I am not here endeavoring to win converts!?  Most of what you guys have done is insult me! Bigtime. I am not going to rewrite my treatise in order to adapt to your lack of comprehension! I don't give a damn if you are impressed or not! It is not a total waste of time. I am learning enough to perhaps rewrite the way I put the first sentence of the script, maybe...

Ben

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #319 on: January 27, 2023, 03:32:06 PM »
I am not here endeavoring to win converts!?  Most of what you guys have done is insult me! Bigtime. I am not going to rewrite my treatise in order to adapt to your lack of comprehension! I don't give a damn if you are impressed or not! It is not a total waste of time. I am learning enough to perhaps rewrite the way I put the first sentence of the script, maybe...

Why won't you rewrite it for us? You rewrote it for these guys:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-56159.html
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Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #320 on: January 27, 2023, 03:34:57 PM »
If I'm wrong why are you still here?
Just want to spend the remaining years of your life arguing with everyone on the internet?
Get outside, breath the fresh air instead of arguing, the sun is out
I am still here because I am flooded with responses, this thread is booming; and, I am making headway with cordex!
No, I do not want to argue on the internet, I want a dialectic.

Bosco1

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #321 on: January 27, 2023, 03:40:08 PM »
Why won't you rewrite it for us? You rewrote it for these guys:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-56159.html
Excellent move Ben. I indeed did think of posting one of my other writings here too, to show that I have in fact now written this in plainer language, and, then, decided no. Thank you Ben!

Ben

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #322 on: January 27, 2023, 04:54:13 PM »
Excellent move Ben. I indeed did think of posting one of my other writings here too, to show that I have in fact now written this in plainer language, and, then, decided no. Thank you Ben!

No problem. Other than you've already called us fools and told us it's impossible for you to write it in simpler terms than in your OP. But if you can dumb it down for us simpletons, I'll certainly give it a read.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #323 on: January 27, 2023, 04:59:16 PM »
No problem. Other than you've already called us fools and told us it's impossible for you to write it in simpler terms than in your OP. But if you can dumb it down for us simpletons, I'll certainly give it a read.

Especially for us nitwits  :P
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lee n. field

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Re: “Law” is Not Determinative of Conduct
« Reply #324 on: January 27, 2023, 05:28:27 PM »
The legislators. the judges; the nitwit police, all make it their business to horn in on my life via this bull called law. Where have you been?! Yes, all of these persons claim the law determines, causes, moves them, binds and determines them to continually screw with us. That is their claim, but, the reality is that they are not in fact moved by the law to act against the citizenry.                     

There's always

In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.