Discover to Track Gun Purchases

[Ben]

Regarding the credit card companies allowing for the specific tracking of gun purchases, which we talked about some time ago and seems to have fallen off the radar: Discover announced that they will activate firearms tracking beginning in April.

Even though they are the red headed stepchild of credit cards, they may push other companies to follow sooner rather than later. Apparently the ISO has just updated to include the category.

As much as I like the points I get if I buy a gun on my CC, if any of my CC companies start this (which they likely will), I'm going to cash. Though I guess it also depends, in the case of retailers that sell more than guns, if the retailer will adopt the code. It sounds like your LGS will have no choice.

https://www.reuters.com/business/discover-enable-tracking-purchases-gun-retailers-april-2023-02-17/

[Nick1911]

I'm getting really tired of companies treating me like I'm the product.

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Quoted from Reuters: Feb 18 (Reuters) - Discover Financial Services (DFS.N), a provider of credit cards, told Reuters it will allow its network to track purchases at gun retailers come April, making it the first among its peers to publicly give a date for moving ahead with the initiative, which is aimed at helping authorities probe gun-related crimes.

It is a back door registry of gun owners and what they have bought. I guess the filing of 4473's isn't good enough for tracking guns used in crimes.

Woody

[MillCreek]

^^^As per Woody's post above, I wonder if this means they will track only purchases of firearms, or will they track everything I buy at Cabela's?

[Ben]

^^^As per Woody's post above, I wonder if this means they will track only purchases of firearms, or will they track everything I buy at Cabela's?

I asked that when I bought a gun at Cabela's when this first hit the news. The gun manager was (expectedly I guess) clueless. I recall there were articles stating that the code was somewhat voluntary for "sporting goods" stores, but if you are specifically a gun store, you just get the one code, so purchasing a gun safe is the same as purchasing a gun.

[K Frame]

Just after I got out of college and had my first job I got a "PREAPPROVED DISCOVER CARD APPLICATION BECAUSE YOU'RE SO RESPONSIBLE WITH YOUR CREDIT!"

I figured what the hell, I need to build credit, so I sent it in.

Couple of weeks later I got a rejection...

Sorry, you don't meet our stringent qualifications for a Discover card"

OK, fine, you're dead to me.

That didn't stop them from sending me application after application for the next 20 years. Most of the time I just threw them out, but occasionally I would pull the return envelope, seal it empty, and send it back to them.

[HankB]

Funny thing - years ago Discover was running a 5% or 10% "discount" for purchases made at sporting goods stores which coincided with a "10% off all purchases" weekend at Sportsman's Warehouse, so that's when I bought what is now my everyday carry gun, an S&W 340SC.  I checked my statement, and yep, I got the proper "cashback" for my purchase, so Discover actually helped subsidize my new gun buy! 

Just after I got out of college and had my first job I got a "PREAPPROVED DISCOVER CARD APPLICATION BECAUSE YOU'RE SO RESPONSIBLE WITH YOUR CREDIT!" . . .

I had pretty much the same experience with a VISA card from AAA (the auto club) - despite the pre-approved invitation I was rejected for a card simply since I didn't already have a card. The only card I could get without already having a card was a department store card from Sears. That card went though many changes over the last 40 years and doesn't say SEARS any more, it's now a Mastercard that says "SHOP YOUR WAY" after a Sears frequent buyer's program. I still use it, they've had some really good promotions over the past few years.

With a credit score today consistently in the 800s I get a LOT of invitations to apply, including from AAA. Based on my experience back then, AAA credit is as dead to me as Discover is to you.

[K Frame]

"The only card I could get without already having a card was a department store card from Sears."

Yep. Same here. Which worked great because I needed to start assembling tools when I graduated college.

[Brad Johnson]

My first card was a Shell/Texaco gas card. Ended up with three or four different brands. Ditto Monkey Wards and Service Merchandise.

First "real" credit card was a Texas Farm Bureau Bank Visa with a whopping $500 credit limit. Still have that card, actually, because my Charter Member status gets me a few goodies every now and again.

Brad

[T.O.M.]

And all of this is why I make as many gun purchases as I can with cash.  LGS likes it too, as it avoids the credit card fees, occasionally for accessories and ammo, he'll cut me a bit of a discount for cash. 

[Northwoods]

I thought about replacing all my guns after the kayak accident but decided they’re too upsetting to all those moms demanding action.

[lee n. field]

And all of this is why I make as many gun purchases as I can with cash.  LGS likes it too, as it avoids the credit card fees, occasionally for accessories and ammo, he'll cut me a bit of a discount for cash.

Ditto.  Keeps me from having to explain something to the wife.

I was, like, 36 before I got my first credit card.  NRA Visa, I think.  Possible a Discover,

[K Frame]

My first card was a Shell/Texaco gas card. Ended up with three or four different brands. Ditto Monkey Wards and Service Merchandise.

First "real" credit card was a Texas Farm Bureau Bank Visa with a whopping $500 credit limit. Still have that card, actually, because my Charter Member status gets me a few goodies every now and again.

Brad

I still have my first "big boy" credit card, too... A Pennsylvania State Employee's Credit Union Visa, which I got in, IIRC, 1988.

My initial credit limit was $2,000.... and it stayed $2,000 until about 3 years ago when, unasked, they increased it to $3,000.

what I don't like about PSECU's card, though, is that there is ZERO grace period on purchases. When you make a purchase, it is immediately funded as a "Visa Loan," which starts accruing interest from day one. Because of that I've largely stopped using the card. I'll use it a couple of times a year to make sure that they don't decide to close it on me.

I've had it for nearly 40 years at this point, and to have it closed would be a HUGE hit on my credit score.

[MechAg94]

If I remember correctly, I never got a credit card until college.  I was denied by one of the common ones that had a booth on campus.  I had no credit history.  So I ended up getting an American Express card.  I guess they were less picky since they didn't allow you to carry a balance.  After a year or so I got the American Express card that allowed you to hold a balance. 

[Brad Johnson]

My initial credit limit was $2,000.... and it stayed $2,000 until about 3 years ago when, unasked, they increased it to $3,000.

Around Christmas I was notified of of a credit limit increase on my primary CC. Apparently they like me ... really, really like me. Between it, a couple other cards I keep active for safety net reasons, and SWMBO's two cards, we have access to nearly six figures of credit. Thank goodness we keep everything paid off and are both innately frugal. We could easily get into deep financial trouble with little to no effort.

Brad

[K Frame]

"we have access to nearly six figures of credit."

That's all?

I have access to nearly that much, and I'm just one person. 

Years ago I set up a checking line of credit to serve as overdraft protection. I needed it back then because I wasn't earning a lot and some of my bills were out of cycle with my paychecks, which meant I'd either bounce a check or I'd get hit with late payment fees. It came in handy quite a few times.

Credit limit on it is $500; I rarely had more than a $150 or so balance at any time. One day I logged into my accounts and noticed that my credit limit had been increased to $1,000.

I didn't want that, so I called Navy Federal to ask that it be set back to $500.

At that time I had maybe $90 riding on it.

I think I got the absolute dumbest CSR I've ever spoken with.

When I asked for the line to be moved back to $500, she got all flustered and said if I did that I'd be hit with overdraft fees because the balance would exceed the limit.

I ask her how that would be possible if the credit limit was $500, but the balance was only $90. Simple subtraction shows that I would still have $410 available credit on the account.

She simply didn't get it. She couldn't figure out the concept. We went around for a bit and I finally asked her to transfer me to either another CSR or a supervisor. She asked me to hold for a moment and I guess went and talked to someone because a couple of minutes later she came back on the line and said that my credit limit had been set back to $500. I took the victory and ran. I still shake my head in... wonder? disgust? every time I think about that encounter.

[Brad Johnson]

"we have access to nearly six figures of credit."

That's all?

I have access to nearly that much, and I'm just one person. 

There would have been much, much more, but I've been slowly killing accounts and cards over the last ten years. Both Chase and Capitol One constantly spam us with pre-approvals double or more our current card limits. Chase, especially, since it's the card we run everything through, every nickel of expense except what little SWMBO spends on personal stuff. The annual total is ... a lot. Great for accumulating points, which we use to take a couple of weekenders a year. A lot easier to enjoy time away when your only expenses are fuel, food, and the toothbrush SWMBO perpetually forgets to pack.

Brad

[K Frame]

"but I've been slowly killing accounts and cards over the last ten years. "

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA? WHY DON'T YOU SUPPORT AMERICAN MANUFACTURERS?

[Brad Johnson]

"but I've been slowly killing accounts and cards over the last ten years. "

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA? WHY DON'T YOU SUPPORT AMERICAN MANUFACTURERS?

I mother Russia, you do not charge to credit card. Credit card charge to you.

Brad

[WLJ]

Update

In addition to the announcement by Visa and Mastercard, Discover now says it will not be rolling out the use of the MCCs as it had previously announced just a few weeks ago. American Express is also “pausing” its implementation of the MCCs for the time being, so it does look like most major companies are in agreement.

Needless to say it's not going over well with some

    Brady President Kris Brown stated:
    “It is shameful to hear that credit card companies Visa and Mastercard have caved to the gun lobby’s transparent political ploys.
    “If true, Visa and Mastercard are choosing political expediency over American lives. Make no mistake, Americans will continue to suffer and die as a result of this deadly decision. Having a dedicated process to flag troubling and suspicious firearms purchases, like they already do to detect other fraudulent purchases, is a common-sense strategy for companies to save lives and prevent the next mass shooting.
    “We urge Visa and Mastercard to correct their course immediately. The choice they have now is clear: adopt this new tool at their disposal to prevent gun violence, or drag their feet while gun violence devastates our communities across the country. Every delay of action results in more lives needlessly taken.”

Huge: Major credit card companies halt rollout of codes for gun store purchases
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2023/03/09/huge-major-credit-card-companies-halt-rollout-of-codes-for-gun-store-purchases-n68271

[Ben]

^^^

I heard that a few hours ago. I wonder what got them all to suddenly backtrack?

[Perd Hapley]

^^^

I heard that a few hours ago. I wonder what got them all to suddenly backtrack?

Obviously, it was the immense Corporate Juggernaut known as Teh Gun Lobby. They run the whole country, as wee know.

[Northwoods]

Obviously, it was the immense Corporate Juggernaut known as Teh Gun Lobby. They run the whole country, as wee know.

[NPR voice] Clearly…

[Ben]

I just got an NRA alert that HB295, the "Second Amendment Financial Privacy Act", was just introduced here in Idaho and is apparently being fast tracked, to prohibit credit card and other financial tracking of firearms related stuff. I haven't read the whole bill yet, but am wondering how such legislation would work on a state by state level.

https://legislature.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/sessioninfo/2023/legislation/H0295.pdf

[French G.]

You're doing it wrong. Stores and credit cards have tracked purchases for years, especially loyalty programs. A few decades ago they were all looking for some walmartian that bought stuff like shotgun shells, propane cylinders and a crapton of valentines bears, the theory being that some IEDs were in the works. I used to get a box of ammo or duct tape and rope on a walmart run just to see if someone noticed. I bought an AR on a credit card the day after the lightbringer was elected just as a small spite. Get on the lists. All of them. Well maybe not the wish.com fuel filter ad but anyway.

I don't want these companies to have my business but maybe we need a geriatric sapper brigade. As i understand it credit cards can try to get an estate for debt but it isn't transferable to the heirs. If you only have a year or two buy the guns on the cards, pass them on to someone, don't pay off the balance.