Author Topic: Ammo question  (Read 920 times)

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,622
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2023, 08:10:36 AM »
I too do not trust "mis-shaped" ammo without rxtensive testing.

However, with my little Kahr CW9 i did not want to spend range time and money on running the recommended 200 test rounds through it.

So I keep the chamber loaded with a hot shot hollowpoint galaxy-busting 9mm round and the magazine loaded with FMJs.  So my first shot is a galaxy-buster which didn't need to be fed. My second mag is filled with the galaxy busters.

I would be interested in such a survey, but I'm not sure it would matter to my guns.  They only speak banguage anyway.

Terry, 230RN
A former next door neighbor was a plainclothes cop. Regulations at the time required him to carry a .38, but he could carry any backup he wanted. He kept the .38 somewhere out of the way and kept his "backup" - a 1911 in .45 - handy. He loaded a 230 JHP in the chamber (Norma brand, the only JHP available at the time) and hardball in the magazine for reliability.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,255
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2023, 01:26:31 PM »
As a 1911 aficionado, that's what I carry. Most of my 1911s will feed pretty much any JHP round, but for consistent reliability I prefer those with a rounded ogive that's close to the ogive profile of FMJ bullets. In premium ammunition, that basically means Remington Golden Saber -- except that Remington has now renamed it "Personal Defense" (or something like that) and raised the price in a shadow increase by keeping the price per box the same, but now packaging 20 rounds per box instead of 25.

Some while back I did a fair amount of research into self-defense loads in .45 ACP. Both Winchester and Remington offer (or did at that time) a JHP load in their budget ammo lines (Winchester "white box"  and Remington 'green box"). The bullets in those rounds look virtually identical, and they also appear to be the same bullets you get if you buy 230-grain JHP projectiles from either Winchester or Remington. What I found strongly suggested that these bullets were originally the premium JHP from the respective companies, and they relegated them to the bulk pack lines when they introduced newer, higher-priced self-defense loads with fancy names (like "Black Talon") and commensurately higher prices.

I found some tests that indicated that under most conditions the budget JHPs expand almost as well as the newer, higher-priced ammo. I still have a few boxes of Remington Golden Saber, so that's what I carry in my EDC pistol but I would not feel under-armed if I were to load up with Winchester white box or Remington green box JHP. A gunsmith friend of mine takes the attitude that if it doesn't expand at all, it still makes a .45" hole, so it's no worse than ball ammo, and probably significantly better.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

gunsmith

  • I forgot to get vaccinated!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,179
  • I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2023, 12:28:25 AM »
I always carry JHP from some reputable brand like hornaday/federal/gold dot.
I wish there was a study.
I hope to get a glock 10mm this fall or winter - there are a few black bears in my neck of the woods - but I am more worried about pitbuls .
I carry .40 S&W most days but will carry a sw 642 as well.
later this summer I plan on buying a suit and plan on carrying the .25 , a tiny 950 I think it is beretta - I need extra mags tho. 
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

gunsmith

  • I forgot to get vaccinated!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,179
  • I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2023, 12:39:40 AM »
I do not need a suit, I will probably stay welding until i retire in a couple of yrs and then still work - just get the one grand extra per month from social security - however- I want a nice suit to be John Wick for halloween this yr - and actually carry to round out the look -
most times i would only carry the little 25 pocket rocket for formal wear - I have not even seen jhp available for it but I doubt it makes a huge difference with the dimunitive 25 acp if I ever have to use it it would be in a close fight and I plan on pointing at the belly/groin area and running away hoping that works enough to make following me un appealing
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,622
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2023, 08:25:38 AM »
I do not need a suit, I will probably stay welding until i retire in a couple of yrs and then still work - just get the one grand extra per month from social security - however- I want a nice suit to be John Wick for halloween this yr - and actually carry to round out the look -
most times i would only carry the little 25 pocket rocket for formal wear - I have not even seen jhp available for it but I doubt it makes a huge difference with the dimunitive 25 acp if I ever have to use it it would be in a close fight and I plan on pointing at the belly/groin area and running away hoping that works enough to make following me un appealing
Luckygunner.com lists .25 JHP - $35 for 20.  :O

Looking at their gel tests (no expansion) I'd just stick with FMJ, since penetration isn't great with this round in the first place. The only real reason for a .25 is that - in principle - the ammo ought to be more reliable than .22 rimfire.

https://www.luckygunner.com/bulk-25-acp-ammo-25acp35jhpspeergd-20#geltest

If you want a tiny gun, consider the KelTec P32. I fired a friend's and it was reliable - can't speak much for the accuracy other than within 7 yards it was OK, at 25 yards keeping my rounds on a full size silhouette was difficult with the "sights" (and I use the term loosely) it had. It's still a step up from the .25 in power. (The Gold Dot .32s didn't expand in their gel tests either.)
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Lennyjoe

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,764
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2023, 08:53:25 AM »
Lucky gunner is a good site to look at gel test results.  I use them when researching ammo performance when selecting self defense ammo and reload development for short barreled .357 mag loads, but just as a reference point.

For me, HST’s in my 9MM’s (124 for short barreled and 147’s for 4”), Gold Dots for my .40 and 45’s and 180 XTP’s and 200 Gr Nosler for 10MM’s.  All functional tested prior to carry.

Not sure if I’ve ever seen a study that Perd is looking for to be honest. 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2023, 08:23:00 PM by Lennyjoe »

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,238
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2023, 08:57:04 AM »
In 9mm I generally carry Winchester Rangers.

In my .38s I carry Speer 135-gr. JHP Gold Dots.

In .40 and .45 I am also using Gold Dots.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,721
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2023, 09:35:21 AM »
+1 for the Keltec P32.  It is a pocket gun size, but 32 acp is light enough the gun it easy to shoot.  I want to get another one, but they aren't easy to find.  Everyone has the 380, not the 32.

I have generally been leaning toward the solid copper bullets for 32 such as the Lehigh Defense screwdriver ammo or the Fort Scott Munitions stuff.  Just figure I should err on the side of penetration over expansion for small calibers like that. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,238
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2023, 09:51:12 AM »
I've not carried my Beretta in .32, but were I to, I'd probably just go with hard ball. Flat nose hard ball if I could find it, but whatever.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,721
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2023, 09:58:17 AM »
How often do you carry a pocket gun?  For me it is just once in a blue moon when my clothes (usually a suit) don't allow my P365 or something larger. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,238
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2023, 10:09:45 AM »
How often do you carry a pocket gun?  For me it is just once in a blue moon when my clothes (usually a suit) don't allow my P365 or something larger. 

Virtually every day...

My preferred method of carry is in a pocket holster.

My two primary CCW guns are either a Smith & Wesson 042 .38, or a Taurus PT-22.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 28,186
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2023, 10:20:03 AM »
Pocket carry a Rohrbaugh R9.
Barely bigger than a Kel-tec 380 but in 9mm.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,068
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2023, 11:15:58 AM »
LCP in a DeSantis Nemesis. It's my American Express Card - I don't leave home without it.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,272
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2023, 01:51:59 PM »
Depending on the pocket I will carry either a Sig 938 or S&W M&P 2.0 (single stack) both in 9mm. When a lot of civil unrest started happening I gave up the S&W Bodyguard (380) for them because, well 9mm. I have always wanted a AMT backup in 40 S&W so I could ream the chamber and make a 10mm pocket rocket out of it. I can find nearly every AMT except the 40.

As far as ammo, all of my reloads are Hornady XTP (HAP for practice in 10mm). Any 9mm is a quality store bought.

bob


K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,238
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2023, 02:03:06 PM »
"I have always wanted a AMT backup in 40 S&W so I could ream the chamber and make a 10mm pocket rocket out of it."

Are you sure that a 10mm could even fit in the Backup's footprint?

I don't have a dimensional drawing on the .40 version, but I've really got to question whether that could be done.

One thing that always struck me about the AMTs (other than them being very expensive pieces of absolute *expletive deleted*it) is how tight the dimensions were in the frames. They all seemed to be very much tailored for a minimal amount of extra space in either the grip or in slide clearance (and that caused no end of feed problems with my Mom's AMT in .380).
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,272
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2023, 02:08:00 PM »
"I have always wanted a AMT backup in 40 S&W so I could ream the chamber and make a 10mm pocket rocket out of it."

Are you sure that a 10mm could even fit in the Backup's footprint?


Yes, surprisingly I am not the first (or original) thinker of this conversion. I saw one many years ago and said "That's what I need!" ;)

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Pocket-pistol-40--andgt-10mm-Conversion--RANGE-REPORT-and-Video/5-1954300/

bob


K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,238
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2023, 02:16:36 PM »
Ah.... they built the .40 on the .45 ACP backup frame.

I was under the impression that they were built on the 9mm backup frame.

Interesting.

But, you couldn't convince me to buy an AMT product even if you chambered it for .38 Super... or .32 ACP.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,572
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2023, 06:00:24 PM »
Ammo question: Has anyone seen a study or survey on how many people use premium hollow-point rounds (or any kind of hollow-point) in their defensive pistols?

nothing comprehensive. 

And, Internet social media == Dunning-Krueger National Park, I don't think I'd necessarily follow the herd on this or anything.

(I carry factory rounds, they tend to be social purposes hollow points.  Being usually .38, I take what I can find around here.  I've got a small pile of .38 Federal Punch, a smaller pile of 110 grain Silvertip.  Dribs and drabs of other stuff.

What shoots reliably to point of aim for me, is my own handloads, 158 grain LSWC, 3.8 grains Bullseye.)
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,255
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2023, 08:00:10 PM »
Pocket carry a Rohrbaugh R9.
Barely bigger than a Kel-tec 380 but in 9mm.


But a Kel-Tec 380 is also 9mm  >:D
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

WLJ

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 28,186
  • On Patrol In The Epsilon Eridani System
Re: Ammo question
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2023, 08:11:49 PM »
But a Kel-Tec 380 is also 9mm  >:D

I predicted someone would bring that up   :P
And so is 38S and 357  :P

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes