Author Topic: US Automobile Travel With Guns  (Read 419 times)

Ben

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US Automobile Travel With Guns
« on: May 09, 2023, 02:32:41 PM »
The Armed Attorneys just put out a pre-Summer vacation video on traveling with your guns. I've traveled interstate a good bit by car with guns, but still learned some stuff I was unaware of, even though I have always (or at least thought I did) thoroughly researched current state laws before travel.

What I found most interesting and was unaware of was the concept of "legal start and legal finish" and "cessation of travel", to include overnight stops.

https://youtu.be/EwO64jXZvcE
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Hawkmoon

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Re: US Automobile Travel With Guns
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2023, 05:13:42 PM »
I'm not a lawyer, but I notice they haven't cited ANY cases to support a couple of their more outrageous claims.

First: Stopping overnight is a cessation of travel. Says who? I've been following this for close to 20 years, and I am not aware of ANYONE who has even been arrested and prosecuted for this, let alone convicted. As the chick said at 5:00, "We don't have a statute to tell us yes or no." Everything I have read over the past 20 years has advised (also without any common law cases as support) that an overnight stop at a hotel or motel close to your route of travel would "probably" be considered to be in the normal course of travel. You can't drive from California to Maine without stopping somewhere to eat, pee, and sleep. Stopping at a Holiday Inn Express near an interchange of the highway you're traveling on would be a normal part of the trip. I don't accept her statement at around 3:30 and again at 4:45 that an overnight stop is a destination.

Taking a 25 mile detour off the highway to visit Great Aunt Maude (or to see the world's largest ball of twine) could make Aunt Maude's place of residence or the twine ball museum a "destination." I don't disagree with that at all, but to argue that you can't stop for sleep, or even stop for dinner at an upscale restaurant rather than a Mickey D's is ridiculous.


Second: The chick says in an SUV the firearm has to be as far away from the driver as possible -- as far to the rear of the vehicle as you can get it. Nonsense. That's not what the law says at all. The law says, "in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console." It says nothing about where in the vehicle the locked case can or must be stowed. Legally, it can be on the driver's lap -- but the gun must be unloaded, and the gun OR the ammunition must be in a locked container.

[Caveat:] The New Jersey State police basically reproduce the exact language of this federal law on their web site as advice to travelers, EXCEPT that the NJSP say the gun AND the ammunition must be in a locked case.

The gotcha is what to do with the gun if/when you stop somewhere in the middle of your trip. In injun territory, if you're stopping in a state where you are not legally allowed to possess and carry a firearm, you're not supposed to have access to the firearm. That's what tripped up the guy who missed a connection at Newark International Airport and had to spend the night in a hotel on the airport property. He retrieved his luggage (with a checked gun inside), took it to the hotel with him, and he was busted when he tried to re-declare the firearm the next morning. If he had left the suitcase with the gun in the airline's baggage office overnight, he would have been okay.

So the analog would be that, if the intent of the law is to prevent the driver (and passengers, I suppose) from having immediate, ready access to the firearm while traveling through unfriendly territory, it would be best to leave the gun in the car overnight rather than take it into the hotel room. But that opens you up to having the gun stolen if someone breaks into the car. So the better idea, IMHO, would be to plan any overnight stops to occur in states where you are legal to possess and carry.

But this is not because an overnight stop is a cessation of travel (which, as the chick said, is not defined in the law), but because if you bring the gun into a hotel room with you to prevent its being stolen, you now have ready access to it -- and that's what the law doesn't allow.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 10:15:21 PM by Hawkmoon »
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T.O.M.

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Re: US Automobile Travel With Guns
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2023, 07:12:44 PM »
Like most lawyers, the advice given in the video is the most conservative version.  I agree with you, Hawk, that some of what is said is a pretty extreme reading of the laws.  But, given the purpose of the video, I understand why they have the advice in this manner.
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Ben

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Re: US Automobile Travel With Guns
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2023, 07:38:23 PM »
Like most lawyers, the advice given in the video is the most conservative version.  I agree with you, Hawk, that some of what is said is a pretty extreme reading of the laws.  But, given the purpose of the video, I understand why they have the advice in this manner.

Yeah, I took it as a "beware of what a Soros DA could do to you" video.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Hawkmoon

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Re: US Automobile Travel With Guns
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2023, 10:12:07 PM »
Like most lawyers, the advice given in the video is the most conservative version.  I agree with you, Hawk, that some of what is said is a pretty extreme reading of the laws.  But, given the purpose of the video, I understand why they have the advice in this manner.

I am rather risk-averse, so I have no problem with an attorney giving conservative advice. What I have a problem with is presenting it as Gospel and in a way that makes it appear as if the law says what they say it says, when in fact ... it doesn't. Tell me what the law actually says, and then tell me the downside of going to the bleeding edge of it -- don't lie to me. I expect an attorney to present facts, and then let me make up my own mind what risks I might or might not want to take.

I've only watched a couple of their videos, and I think I've had problems with every one of them. I guess I should watch a couple more, but I don't expect the quality of the information to improve.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2023, 12:12:55 PM by Hawkmoon »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: US Automobile Travel With Guns
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2023, 02:18:48 PM »
I’ve been meaning to ask a question about one of their videos from a while back. They were talking about whether or not to inform a police officer about your carry permit. The blond lady said if you tell the officer, he’ll relax, and go easy on you. And you’ll probably get out of the ticket, if it’s nothing too serious. Her co-presenter agreed with her, but I haz questions. Cuz maybe cops are just easier on her, because, ya know.
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Ben

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Re: US Automobile Travel With Guns
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2023, 02:28:21 PM »
I’ve been meaning to ask a question about one of their videos from a while back. They were talking about whether or not to inform a police officer about your carry permit. The blond lady said if you tell the officer, he’ll relax, and go easy on you. And you’ll probably get out of the ticket, if it’s nothing too serious. Her co-presenter agreed with her, but I haz questions. Cuz maybe cops are just easier on her, because, ya know.

I'm ugly, and when I was pulled over for speeding last November by an Oregon Trooper, while I was polite and friendly, I'm gonna say that my telling him that I was carrying and providing the permit had something to do with me getting out of the ticket. I'm pretty sure that OR, like some other states, flags the permit when the cop runs a check.

So I believe my telling him before he ever did the check had something to do with getting out of the ticket. I had also forgotten to put my updated insurance info in the truck, and that came up before the gun did. He had asked me to login to my insurance to show him current proof. I forgot my stupid password, since I never login on the phone, and after he came back, I was still trying to get to it. At that point, he told me, "Don't worry about it, I know you're honest." I think being forthcoming with the gun helped with that as well.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

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Re: US Automobile Travel With Guns
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2023, 02:52:13 PM »
That has been my experience.  It could also be that my record is about as clean as you can get.  The last time I got stopped, the officer asked me if I was actually carrying when I gave him my license.  He thanked me for carrying when I told him yes.  I have heard it is looked on as a good guy badge of sorts since you have to have a clean criminal record; maybe not everywhere.   

The blonde lady is local to the Houston/Galveston area.  She spoke at my gun club annual meeting a few years ago.  I imagine experience with police officers may vary depending on your area.  Here in Texas, the carry license will show up when they run your information.  I assume it comes up when they run my license plate. 

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MechAg94

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Re: US Automobile Travel With Guns
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2023, 09:49:38 PM »
My Dad and I went to the Indianapolis NRA show a few years ago.  I did check to make sure carry was legal on our route.  It was as long as we didn't try to go North then East.  That went through part of Illinois.  These days I would have to check on my knife as automatic knives aren't legal in many states.
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HeroHog

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Re: US Automobile Travel With Guns
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2023, 02:21:02 PM »
I have found cops here in Shreveport, La cut legal carriers slack, even at DUI checkpoints. Presents CHP, Reg, Lisc, Ins while informing officer I am carrying. Officer doesn't even examine my stuff and waves me on.
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