Author Topic: The ATF Came For His FRT  (Read 867 times)

Ben

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The ATF Came For His FRT
« on: May 09, 2023, 07:48:52 PM »
I thought this guy handled his ATF interaction well. Especially putting the agents on the spot about needing to pick which team they're on regarding the constitution. I'm sure from an armchair, someone could come up with a better way to handle them, but I thought he did well both with not incriminating himself and with calling them out in a polite way.

https://youtu.be/1oJ71hXrd6o
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Hawkmoon

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2023, 10:29:17 PM »
The scary part is that the BATFE has lists of everyone who bought these things. We always knew (or at least expected) they would use those lists to confiscate, but now we have proof.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2023, 01:01:39 AM by Hawkmoon »
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Lennyjoe

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2023, 10:41:53 PM »
Just watched the video and was expecting the agent to his left to try and detain him.  Dude can’t even wear his armor right though as it was cocked to the side…..lol

RoadKingLarry

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2023, 11:13:02 PM »
Just watched the video and was expecting the agent to his left to try and detain him.  Dude can’t even wear his armor right though as it was cocked to the side…..lol

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Ben

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2023, 12:59:40 PM »
Mrgunsngear made some good comments regarding how the ATF nonchalantly worked "gotchya" questions into their casual conversation with this guy. Also a good point about the ATF agents not wearing bodycams. I'm trying to think if I've ever seen one of these videos where the agents had a bodycam.

https://youtu.be/lR1yI0ZyVec
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

RoadKingLarry

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2023, 02:09:14 PM »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MechAg94

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2023, 02:40:41 PM »
The scary part is that the BATFE has lists of everyone who bought these things. We always knew (or at least expected) they would use those lists to confiscate, but now we have proof.
The company selling them had the list and the BATFE seized that information.  That can happen with anything bought over the internet. 

I imagine there are customers who bought them for cash that they can't track down.  I never got one or saw them for sale (aside from online). 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Pb

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2023, 04:21:05 PM »
A year or two ago, there were a lot of folks on another gun forum talking about how they wanted to buy one with cash.

They didn't seem to understand that once the gov declared the FRTs were "illegal machine guns" they might as well drill the third hole and made a real machine gun as have a FRT.

cordex

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2023, 04:28:21 PM »
A year or two ago, there were a lot of folks on another gun forum talking about how they wanted to buy one with cash.

They didn't seem to understand that once the gov declared the FRTs were "illegal machine guns" they might as well drill the third hole and made a real machine gun as have a FRT.
Maybe they just wanted to play with it until then and just didn't want to have ATF agents come knocking after the fact.

HankB

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2023, 05:41:51 PM »
The company selling them had the list and the BATFE seized that information.  That can happen with anything bought over the internet . . .
Some companies say they "don't keep" a list of customers. Even if that's true, fed.gov has the ability to obtain information from other sources, like credit card companies and shippers like UPS or FedEx; this goes back to before the days of the Internet.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2023, 06:53:50 PM »
FRT ??? Why would the BATFE care if I have a Flow Recorder Transmitter?


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https://www.allacronyms.com/FRT
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Pb

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2023, 10:46:10 AM »
Maybe they just wanted to play with it until then and just didn't want to have ATF agents come knocking after the fact.

True....

The coat hanger trick seems easier though.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/01/04/coat-hanger-machine-gun-dias-drop-in-auto-sear/

cordex

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2023, 11:57:01 AM »
The coat hanger trick seems easier though.
The difference is, if they are caught with an FRT while the issue is up in the air they're probably okay.  If they're caught with a cut up coat hanger then they're probably not okay.

MechAg94

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2023, 12:16:08 PM »
Some companies say they "don't keep" a list of customers. Even if that's true, fed.gov has the ability to obtain information from other sources, like credit card companies and shippers like UPS or FedEx; this goes back to before the days of the Internet.
That is what is nice about gun shows.  Pay your cash and move on.  Just need to decide if you can keep it under the radar.  I am not real comfortable with that. 

Speaking of that, the brace rule should be going into effect soon.  I don't think that has been addressed in court just yet.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 02:38:44 PM by MechAg94 »
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Bogie

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2023, 01:01:51 PM »
You know that now they will be back with a warrant, and a team, and make damn sure the guy, at a minimum, ends up face down in some muddy lawn for a few hours while they completely trash his home, right?
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Pb

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2023, 01:40:02 PM »
Yup.  I'm glad I don't have one of those.  Or a cut up coat hanger for that matter. 

dogmush

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2023, 01:55:47 PM »
That is what is nice about gun shows.  Pay your cash and move on.  Just need to decide if you can keep it under the radar.  I am not real comfortable with that. 

Speaking of that, the same brace rule should be going into effect soon.  I don't think that has been addressed in court just yet.

If you buy a sketchy item for cash at a gun show, 50/50 you bought it directly from the ATF, so they know anyways.

On the video, If I had seen that guy claiming to be a fed with an untucked t-shirt, generic "police" knock off plate carrier and tac pants, i'm not sure I'd have believed him.  That seems like the kind of outfit those folks impersonating cops would wear. Are we sure they were real Feds?

FWIW, no Revenuers have shown up looking for my FRT yet.

MechAg94

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2023, 02:41:51 PM »
If you buy a sketchy item for cash at a gun show, 50/50 you bought it directly from the ATF, so they know anyways.

On the video, If I had seen that guy claiming to be a fed with an untucked t-shirt, generic "police" knock off plate carrier and tac pants, i'm not sure I'd have believed him.  That seems like the kind of outfit those folks impersonating cops would wear. Are we sure they were real Feds?

FWIW, no Revenuers have shown up looking for my FRT yet.
I wouldn't buy it now from anyone.  A couple years ago when the ATF hadn't really taken notice of it, I saw it for sale because I was looking at binary triggers.  I was surprised this trigger was legal and it seems the ATF was also as they started getting involved soon after.  Looked like a neat gimmick, but the only place I saw it for sale at the time was the Big Daddy Unlimited website. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ben

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2023, 02:42:57 PM »
On the video, If I had seen that guy claiming to be a fed with an untucked t-shirt, generic "police" knock off plate carrier and tac pants, i'm not sure I'd have believed him.  That seems like the kind of outfit those folks impersonating cops would wear. Are we sure they were real Feds?

I kinda thought that they both looked "underdressed" as it were, too. A bunch of guntubers have picked this up and run with it at this point. If it turns out to be fake, there's gonna be a lot of embarrassment to go around.  =)
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

RoadKingLarry

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2023, 04:32:06 PM »
If you buy a sketchy item for cash at a gun show, 50/50 you bought it directly from the ATF, so they know anyways.

On the video, If I had seen that guy claiming to be a fed with an untucked t-shirt, generic "police" knock off plate carrier and tac pants, i'm not sure I'd have believed him.  That seems like the kind of outfit those folks impersonating cops would wear. Are we sure they were real Feds?

FWIW, no Revenuers have shown up looking for my FRT yet.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Hawkmoon

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Re: The ATF Came For His FRT
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2023, 10:43:21 PM »
The difference is, if they are caught with an FRT while the issue is up in the air they're probably okay.  If they're caught with a cut up coat hanger then they're probably not okay.

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