Where are we with Binary Triggers?

[AZRedhawk44]

I haven't followed the sea of caselaw going around with regard to binary triggers, bumpstocks, pistol braces, 3D printed receivers and other shenanigans on the AR platform well enough to know the current status of binary triggers.

Also, is the Franklin Armory BFSIII a decent implementation of one?

[Pb]

As far as I know, binary triggers are still legal as always, except in a few states.

[WLJ]

As far as I know, binary triggers are still legal as always, except in a few states.

That but which way is the wind blowing at the ATF today?

[Ben]

From what I've seen the ATF doing after pretty much every judge's ruling against them lately, does it even matter if they're legal or not? The ATF is enforcing all the stayed laws anyway. Even if you win in the courts, it'll be after you're arrested and your life is turned upside down, if not ruined.

[dogmush]

Has anyone been arrested?

I know they were sending out notes and going some people's doors requesting them to turn it in, but none of the folks who told them to pound sand on video seem to have been arrested, at least that I could find.

I think ATF is just hoping people are too scared to do anything on the rules they are losing on.  I know you can buy a Rare Breed online right now.

No one has stopped by my house yet, and I got mine from Big Daddy Unlimited, whose customer lists we know the ATF has.

[Ben]

I think ATF is just hoping people are too scared to do anything on the rules they are losing on.  I know you can buy a Rare Breed online right now.

I think they prefer this. Has anyone been arrested? I don't know. But if people don't have a clear understanding, yes, many are going to be too scared to take a chance.

This is the problem with the bajillion laws of all kinds that we have on the books. We are all felons, and while 90% of us might be ignored, the other 10% are gonna get the shaft, whether for the particular law they didn't know they were breaking, or as an add-on charge to other stuff.

It's just another reason to live under the radar, and obey or not obey, depending on your own chances of being pinched or not. The best advice is not to live on one of the core planets (having just binge rewatched Firefly over the weekend).

[dogmush]

^^

That's exactly why I have an uninstalled FRT trigger.  I didn't want one, and have no use for it, but I wanted the "watchers" to know that people can and will buy them.

[Pb]

I know you can buy a Rare Breed online right now.

You are right... what is going on with them?

[MechAg94]

To my knowledge, the ATF hasn't gone after Binary Triggers.  I assume the binary guys are sort of keeping their heads low and watching what will happen with the FRT triggers. 

On the FRT triggers, I heard there might be a decent chance the criminal case against the FRT manufacturer gets thrown out.  I don't think I would put money either way.  I thought there were appeals going over whether it was a legal trigger or not.

I thought I heard the Bump stock case might go to the Supremes which might affect everything else depending on how the ruling is worded (if there is one).

[MechAg94]

If the AFT lawyers/leadership weren't such jerks about the rules, I would almost sympathize with them over gun guys pushing the legal boundaries all the time.  But we would all be happier if the NFA were just abolished anyway.

[AZRedhawk44]

Do you consider it safe or wise to buy one online with a credit card?

Obviously best is cash at a gun show with no paperwork. 

[MechAg94]

Do you consider it safe or wise to buy one online with a credit card?

Obviously best is cash at a gun show with no paperwork.

That was one reason I never bought an FRT trigger.  Big Daddy had a pretty attractive price at the time. 

[dogmush]

Do you consider it safe or wise to buy one online with a credit card?

Obviously best is cash at a gun show with no paperwork.

I would consider someone selling FRTs or Binary Triggers for cash at a gun store more likely to be a Fed than any storefront.  Orat least sharing info with them.  That's like the guy at your shooting club that's always talking about kidnapping the Michigan Governor; just too juicy a target.

What is your appetite for financial risk?  Like I said, I'm pretty sure no one has been arrested, and the folks that were contacted were asked to turn them in or destroy them, so worst case, you may have to lose your $300 trigger, but it's very unlikely simply ordering one online will lead to a raid and your dogs shot.

I ordered mine from BDU, but like I said, I was more making a point.  If they win in court and come to my door, they can have it, still in it's package.  But as long as it's legal, I have one.

[HankB]

I would consider someone selling FRTs or Binary Triggers for cash at a gun store more likely to be a Fed than any storefront. . . .

Wear sunglasses, a hat, and a covid mask when buying, and keep an eye out for the MiB (Men in Black) outside in an unmarked van full of cameras with long lenses. Park at least 2 blocks away and keep an eye out for a tail when going back to your car. Keep alert for surveillance drones, too.

Oh, and wear gloves when handling the money so they can't get your fingerprints or trace DNA to identify you.

Can't be too careful these days.


 

[WLJ]

Wear sunglasses, a hat, and a covid mask when buying, and keep an eye out for the MiB (Men in Black) outside in an unmarked van full of cameras with long lenses. Park at least 2 blocks away and keep an eye out for a tail when going back to your car. Keep alert for surveillance drones, too.

Oh, and wear gloves when handling the money so they can't get your fingerprints or trace DNA to identify you.

Can't be too careful these days.


 

[MechAg94]

Binary Triggers and FRT Triggers are not the same thing.  Have any of you heard of any legal action against Franklin Armory over the binary triggers?  I haven't.  Fostech has their echo trigger and I haven't heard anything on that either.  Those triggers have been on the market for several years now.  Franklin Armory was selling them at their booth at the NRA show last time it was in Houston.

Yeah, the ATF might not like the binary triggers either, but I haven't heard of any legal action or warnings about them.  On the other hand, the ATF was objecting to the FRT triggers pretty soon after they came out. 

[Ben]

Binary Triggers and FRT Triggers are not the same thing.  Have any of you heard of any legal action against Franklin Armory over the binary triggers?  I haven't.  Fostech has their echo trigger and I haven't heard anything on that either.  Those triggers have been on the market for several years now.  Franklin Armory was selling them at their booth at the NRA show last time it was in Houston.

Yeah, the ATF might not like the binary triggers either, but I haven't heard of any legal action or warnings about them.  On the other hand, the ATF was objecting to the FRT triggers pretty soon after they came out.

Also PSA has a ton of them for sale. You gotta figure that if big retailers like that are selling them over the interwebz, that binaries are pretty safe. I mean, pretty much everybody was removing braces from their website images when that first went down and just showing "buffer tube" ARs. Now I see most of the retailers are showing them back on.

[Pb]

The odd thing is that binary triggers actually are a gray area in the machine gun law... does a "single function of the trigger" mean pulling the trigger only, or does it include releasing the trigger too?  We are lucky the BATFE has interpreted it the first way so far, which permits binary triggers.

On the other hand, bump stocks and forced reset triggers don't fit the definition of MG in any rational way, and they are considered MG by the government.

[MechAg94]

I agree that the broad difference is minimal.  I think the binary triggers get a pass since you still have to deliberately pull and release the trigger to fire and can engage the safety in between if needed. 

With the FRT triggers, there is at least the illusion of one trigger pull and then continuous fire.  I guess the leadership at the ATF has something against bump firing or anything similar. 

[Perd Hapley]

If the AFT lawyers/leadership weren't such jerks about the rules, I would almost sympathize with them over gun guys pushing the legal boundaries all the time.  But we would all be happier if the NFA were just abolished anyway.

It's like people think the basic law of the land says we have a right to own military weapons, or something. Where do people come up with these ideas?

[Pb]

Well, we haven't been a nation of laws since long before I was born.

[230RN]

That but which way is the wind blowing at the ATF today?

Blustery and variable.

If the AFT lawyers/leadership weren't such jerks about the rules, I would almost sympathize with them over gun guys pushing the legal boundaries all the time.  But we would all be happier if the NFA were just abolished anyway.

"...shall not be skownuffetionated."

"Skownuffetionated?"

"Yeah, skownuffetionated.  Can't you read plain English? Means the same thing as 'abridged' in the First Amendment."