Over/Under on Trump keeping his mouth shut?

[charby]

He has been charged with overvaluing assets in the process of obtaining financing.  I am puzzled how that can be the case when 3rd party assessors usually establish collateral property valuations, not the party trying to obtain financing.  And given the fact that the prosecutor ran for office on the promise that she was going to "get Trump" one way or another, make the whole legal proceeding even more suspect in my opinion.

Trump Org is being accused of misstating the values of properties to obtain a better tax values and preferential loan rates. The alleged tax evasion part is probably what is going to get him and if the loans were issued by municipalities or the state for development, that will probably get him too.

Also, it seems to be a popular campaign platform to get the other guy, I'm pretty sure that Trump was going on and on how he was going to get the Clintons and the Biden in his campaign runs.

Both sides suck donkey nuts.

[dogmush]

It is possible he overvalued some properties, but the court has so laughably undervalued them as to lose ALL credibility in my eyes on the subject of the value of Trump's properties.  I just don't believe the court whatever it says the values are.

$18 mil for 20 acres of Palm Beach real estate?  With a club on it that grosses $20 mil a year?  Get out of here with that bullshit.

[Pb]

Trump Org is being accused of misstating the values of properties to obtain a better tax values and preferential loan rates. The alleged tax evasion part is probably what is going to get him and if the loans were issued by municipalities or the state for development, that will probably get him too.

Honest question here: if he overvalued properties to get better loans, wouldn't that hurt him when it came to his taxes?  Or are these totally separate "valuations"?

[cordex]

Also, it seems to be a popular campaign platform to get the other guy, I'm pretty sure that Trump was going on and on how he was going to get the Clintons and the Biden in his campaign runs.

I agree that it is wrong to chase politically motivated prosecutions - for both sides.  Of course, odious as they were, Trump and the Republicans decidedly didn't follow through with his campaign threats to prosecute his political enemies.  Biden and friends are driving that train as far and as fast as they can in every friendly jurisdiction available. 

Your attempt at moral equivalence in likening Trump's mean words and the incessant to the massive slate of one-sided political prosecutions that Biden and his allies are conducting is laughable.

[DittoHead]

Honest question here: if he overvalued properties to get better loans, wouldn't that hurt him when it came to his taxes?  Or are these totally separate "valuations"?

They were separate assessments.

A new valuation of Mar-a-Lago in line with Trump's claims could lead to the former president paying much higher taxes on the property.

Citing both social media posts, Florida Rep. Jared Moskowitz, a Democrat, sent a letter to Jacks on Thursday asking her whether she would be modifying her previous appraisal of Mar-a-Lago to reflect those claims.

"Mar-a-Lago was listed as worth $490 million in financial documents given to banks," Moskowitz wrote. "If the property value of Mar-a-Lago is so much higher than it was appraised, will you be amending the property value in line with the Trump's family belief that the property is worth well over a billion dollars?"

[RocketMan]

Trump Org is being accused of misstating the values of properties to obtain a better tax values and preferential loan rates. The alleged tax evasion part is probably what is going to get him and if the loans were issued by municipalities or the state for development, that will probably get him too.

Also, it seems to be a popular campaign platform to get the other guy, I'm pretty sure that Trump was going on and on how he was going to get the Clintons and the Biden in his campaign runs.

Both sides suck donkey nuts.

You missed the point completely.  Trump does not get to do the appraisals for his own properties.  Appraisals are done by independent third parties, sometimes government entities if it involves tax valuations.  He can state what he thinks his properties are worth, but that is only his opinion and won't be used in a financial transaction.  There is nothing criminal about telling someone what you think your property is worth, because it has no meaning in a proper financial transaction.

[K Frame]

Well, here's violation 1...

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/20/trump-threatened-with-prison-for-violating-gag-order.html

[Pb]

Well, if Trump is smart, he will violate the gag order and go to jail.  That will spike his popularity even more.

Of course, if he's stupid, he's going to do that too... 

[charby]

You missed the point completely.  Trump does not get to do the appraisals for his own properties.  Appraisals are done by independent third parties, sometimes government entities if it involves tax valuations.  He can state what he thinks his properties are worth, but that is only his opinion and won't be used in a financial transaction.  There is nothing criminal about telling someone what you think your property is worth, because it has no meaning in a proper financial transaction.

In regard to appraisal of Trump Org NY property.

I found an addendum to a NY AG filings that does explain that a 3rd party appraised did appraise the value, but Trump org reported as worth a lot more on the Statements of Finacial Conditions. I'm not sure if that is a legal reporting document to the Sec of State's office in NY or just a general statement issued by Trump Org for shareholders and the public.

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf

I just skimmed it really quick, didn't dive deep into.

A little google fu shows that in New York it is a class A misdemeanor to issue a false Statement of Finacial Conditions.

It appears that Trump Org used those "inflated" Financial Condition Statements to obtain higher valued loans at a favorable interest rate, because of the perceived values. 

Also, those saying the mean words vs actions, are you jealous that the opposing party actually grew a pair and pursued legal action.

Also remember we are still in the early days of the Biden legal trouble, Trump's has been brewing for years and finally getting to the courts.

[Ben]

It appears that Trump Org used those "inflated" Financial Condition Statements to obtain higher valued loans at a favorable interest rate, because of the perceived values. 

How? I've never taken out a loan or have done a refinance where the loan company took my word for anything. They sent out their own appraiser to tell me what my stuff was worth.

[charby]

How? I've never taken out a loan or have done a refinance where the loan company took my word for anything. They sent out their own appraiser to tell me what my stuff was worth.

I don't know, one would think if the loan people used  an appraiser for Trump Org then this lawsuit wouldn't be going on. I haven't seen anything about an appraiser being used.

[charby]

A little more Google Fu is showing that the financing was non traditional funding (whatever that is) through Deutch Bank and personal loans. Also allegedly Trump Org left out details to appraisers when they were used.

[cordex]

Also, those saying the mean words vs actions, are you jealous that the opposing party actually grew a pair and pursued legal action.

I don’t have a problem with fairly prosecuting someone they have valid evidence showing is guilty no matter what side they are on. I do have a problem with purely political prosecutions or heavily charging one side for crimes that the other regularly gets away with.  I think if we get to the point that whoever is in power prosecutes whoever isn’t then we are well on our way to national collapse, and politicians will use progressively more corrupt techniques to maintain power, lest they face legal hell when they lose it.

That you note that it is “the opposing party” doing the prosecution shows that you are well aware of the fundamental nature of these cases.

[JTHunter]

I have a feeling that he truly guilty of the fraud charges and will lose on the appeal too. Most business tycoons are guilty of some sort of fraud if you dig deep enough. His empire will crumble and his name (and legacy) won't be the same, this will break Trump and his somewhat shallow ego.

The thing to remember is that even if Trump DID over-value his properties, NONE of the investors have filed complaints against him.
This is ALL being done by by a hard-line dem prosecutor who got her job by campaigning on how she was going to "get Trump".

[charby]

I don’t have a problem with fairly prosecuting someone they have valid evidence showing is guilty no matter what side they are on. I do have a problem with purely political prosecutions or heavily charging one side for crimes that the other regularly gets away with.  I think if we get to the point that whoever is in power prosecutes whoever isn’t then we are well on our way to national collapse, and politicians will use progressively more corrupt techniques to maintain power, lest they face legal hell when they lose it.

That you note that it is “the opposing party” doing the prosecution shows that you are well aware of the fundamental nature of these cases.

Oh, I'm quite aware that it is politically motivated, doesn't make anyone less guilty. Seems like the tit for tat stuff has been building since the Clinton Presidency.

[charby]

The thing to remember is that even if Trump DID over-value his properties, NONE of the investors have filed complaints against him.
This is ALL being done by by a hard-line dem prosecutor who got her job by campaigning on how she was going to "get Trump".

Would you defend a democrat like Trump if it was a NY Democrat in court for the same alleged fraud charges as Trump and a GOP AG was prosecuting?

[dogmush]

If by "Defend" you mean point out that it's BS political prosecution and no one else ever gets charged with this, and point out that the court is making absurd value judgements, and that it's a waste of time and energy that only harms the country, then yes, I would.

I am, however, rabidly anti-both established parties.

I've seen a recurring subject on several conservatives leaning podcasts and commentators, that the Left tends to rabidly defend their people, no matter what, and the right will drop a schmoe at the first sign of misbehavior, and that in the Culture War^tm the Right might want to look at that, since it cost them folks on their side, and leads to folks taking deals with the enemy because they know they won't be backed to the fullest (cough Sydney Powell cough).  I suspect as the younger folks come on line in leading the party and the culture you'll see that attitude catch on.  "If he's our guy, he's our guy to the end. If he's not, bury him"  Which is what you are seeing play out in the NY courts.

[cordex]

Would you defend a democrat like Trump

Not sure that your phrasing was intentional, but it was 100% correct.

Trump is essentially a NY Democrat.

[Ben]

If by "Defend" you mean point out that it's BS political prosecution and no one else ever gets charged with this, and point out that the court is making absurd value judgements, and that it's a waste of time and energy that only harms the country, then yes, I would.

Many people (not you) seem to think this is all about Trump. It really, at its core, has little to do with Trump. I have never seen so many independents and dems (or maybe former dems now) come out, not necessarily in defense of Trump, but against this kind of political prosecution and or persecution.

Anyone with half a brain can see that this is going far beyond any past political shenanigans, and if it continues to fruition, will go well beyond political figures and will target you and me.

[Ron]

US politics is "The Sopranos" as government. No good guys, all lies and grift. Nobody to trust, anyone can be on the take or an infiltrator. Enjoy the show.

Trump as the standard bearer of the right and sane policy is something a buddy of mine calls a humiliation ritual.

How many sane, legitimate and good policies are now considered "Trumpism"? 

Between that and the destruction of the word Nationalist we have an uphill battle ahead of us.

[WLJ]

Many people (not you) seem to think this is all about Trump. It really, at its core, has little to do with Trump. I have never seen so many independents and dems (or maybe former dems now) come out, not necessarily in defense of Trump, but against this kind of political prosecution and or persecution.

Anyone with half a brain can see that this is going far beyond any past political shenanigans, and if it continues to fruition, will go well beyond political figures and will target you and me.

Basically the left showing people what will happen to those who stray off the yellow brick road

[charby]

My problem with Trump and why I have no bones about him burning... and no matter what anyone says, isn't going to convince me otherwise.

I have known about Trump probably since the 3rd grade when he was in every People Magazine, he wants to be in the limelight, he has a huge but fragile ego. He has no decorum, if you go against Trump no matter how small, he publicly tosses that person under the bus. He is nothing more but a bully that probably would fall if a stronger person stood up to him and kick his ass, metaphorically or physical. He has his followers eating up everything he is blamed for is someone else's fault, his lack of personal responsibility isn't there.  He is used to getting what he wants and is an extremely sore loser.

He is a true sociopath. He leaves a path of flotsam and jetsam, and really doesn't care who he destroys to get his way.

Trump isn't in it to be a great American president for the people, Trump is only in it for Trump.

With all the court cases he is in, up rises a new direction of Trump believers, the Trump Apologists, they defend him to a T and it's always someone else's fault because he is in court.

I really don't understand how a Christian person could even support him.


 

[Ron]

Our options aren't really limited, they're better described as illusionary or non existent.

[Ben]

My problem with Trump and why I have no bones about him burning... and no matter what anyone says, isn't going to convince me otherwise.

I have known about Trump probably since the 3rd grade when he was in every People Magazine, he wants to be in the limelight, he has a huge but fragile ego. He has no decorum, if you go against Trump no matter how small, he publicly tosses that person under the bus. He is nothing more but a bully that probably would fall if a stronger person stood up to him and kick his ass, metaphorically or physical. He has his followers eating up everything he is blamed for is someone else's fault, his lack of personal responsibility isn't there.  He is used to getting what he wants and is an extremely sore loser.

He is a true sociopath. He leaves a path of flotsam and jetsam, and really doesn't care who he destroys to get his way.

Trump isn't in it to be a great American president for the people, Trump is only in it for Trump.

With all the court cases he is in, up rises a new direction of Trump believers, the Trump Apologists, they defend him to a T and it's always someone else's fault because he is in court.

I really don't understand how a Christian person could even support him.

So as long as it's someone that you despise, it's okay to illegally prosecute them. I hope the bananas taste good in your Republic.

[Ron]

We're buried in bananas already.