Author Topic: Israel Under Attack  (Read 165220 times)

K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2225 on: December 17, 2024, 09:15:29 AM »
My understanding is GPHE (actually LDGP in US inventory) bombs, have a pretty significant shrapnel load built into their design.  It mostly comes from the casing, but it's a design component to maximize death and damage. For example, the Mk84 GP bomb causes lethal frag damage out to 400ft or so.  IIRC Danger Close on those in JDAM config is like 500M

"Concussion " bombs omit the frag characteristics.  I forget it's designation now but there's a carbon fiber based versi9n of the 500lbs Mk82 like this.  Stuff like that, and Thermobarics are "concussion " weapons.

Again, I'm not a JTAC, and it's been a while since I called in any air, but that's what I remember from the class.


Hum... Interesting. I didn't know that. I thought GPHE bombs (what they were called in WW II, I believe, as the concept of Low Drag didn't really come into play until after WW II in the US) had only the amount of casing needed to contain the explosive and make them aerodynamic.
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K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2226 on: December 17, 2024, 09:21:34 AM »
Wasn't there a Tom Clancy novel (Clear and Present Danger?) where a special disintegrating munition was dropped on a drug lord's compound in South America? As I recall, the fuze and guidance system were the only "solid" parts of the "smart" bomb, with the main part of the casing being something like glorified cardboard.  which would be consumed when the payload detonated.

OK, ok, I know the book (and subsequent movie) were works of fiction.

But Clancy had a reputation for researching his technobabble before including it in his books, so maybe it was inspired by something real.


Well, not entirely applicable, but sort of related, the shells for the Abrams tank's main gun are about 90% combustible. The bottom couple of inches are a steel or other metal base, which holds the primer assembly. Everything above that burns away when the gun is fired.
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

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WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2227 on: December 22, 2024, 09:19:00 AM »
Oops
F/A-18 from  USS Harry S. Truman is shot down by the USS Gettysburg

Two American Navy pilots shot down over Red Sea in 'friendly fire' incident, US military says
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14218233/US-navy-pilots-shot-friendly-fire-military.html
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Live Life

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2228 on: December 22, 2024, 10:03:21 AM »
Quote
F/A-18 ... shot down by ... 'friendly fire'
Both were recovered alive, with one suffering minor injuries.
Thank goodness.

BobR

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2229 on: December 22, 2024, 01:49:22 PM »
Oops
F/A-18 from  USS Harry S. Truman is shot down by the USS Gettysburg

Two American Navy pilots shot down over Red Sea in 'friendly fire' incident, US military says
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14218233/US-navy-pilots-shot-friendly-fire-military.html

"The ship was named after a fratricidal battle so this tracks.."  -Internet

;)

bob

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2230 on: December 24, 2024, 04:12:12 PM »
Turns out the USS Gettysburg almost got a 2nd
So she shot at not one but two. Heads need to roll.

Second Navy jet nearly brought down by friendly fire in Red Sea
https://nypost.com/2024/12/24/us-news/second-navy-jet-nearly-brought-down-by-friendly-fire-in-red-sea/
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
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“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
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dogmush

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2231 on: December 24, 2024, 04:59:09 PM »
Let's see what happened.  We're the Hornets squaking IFF correctly? In the right airspace? Did Gettysburg attempt coms? Did Truman push their current ops to the fleet they way they should?

Lots of thing could have caused this, from a combination of minor screw ups to major negligence.  We don't know yet.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2024, 06:53:20 PM by dogmush »

WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2232 on: December 24, 2024, 05:03:08 PM »
Let's see what happened.  We're the Hornets squeaking IFF correctly? In the right airspace? Did Gettysburg attempt coms? Did Truman push their current ops to the fleet they way they should?

Lots of thing could have caused this, from a combination of minot screw ups to major negligence.  We don't know yet.

Why I haven't passed judgement yet.
Can't say the same for most of comments at the links where some have already jumped to blaming things like DEI
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
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“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

Ben

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2233 on: December 27, 2024, 07:59:10 AM »
I found this article interesting. Even after the invasion, Israeli citizens are still somewhat anti-gun, even while getting gun permits. Many of the same arguments as liberals here use - "a gun license is easier to get than a driver's license", etc.

An overarching theme seems to be that they would prefer to have their government protect them. The US really does seem to be unique in our philosophy of personal responsibility.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/armed-survival-how-october-7-hamas-massacre-transformed-gun-culture-israel
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K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2234 on: December 27, 2024, 11:51:33 AM »
Good Christ...

American Jews have largely always been pro-gun control. I actually saw an American Jew once say had Germany had gun control Hitler wouldn't have been able to rise and Europe's Jews would have been safe...

Yeah.

My guess is that she's now part of a "Jews for Palestine" chapter.
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Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
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Ron

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2235 on: December 27, 2024, 12:43:31 PM »
 (K frame) Odd I read your post and inverted what you actually said. I thought you went bonkers in my absence.

Yeah, they have been on the vanguard of attacking our second amendment protected rights. 
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2236 on: December 27, 2024, 02:08:30 PM »
"I thought you went bonkers in my absence."

well, I am a charter member of Gun Owners for Strict Gun Control...
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

cordex

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2237 on: December 27, 2024, 03:05:55 PM »
"I thought you went bonkers in my absence."

well, I am a charter member of Gun Owners for Strict Gun Control...
You're a gun owner, BUT ....

RocketMan

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2238 on: December 27, 2024, 04:26:15 PM »
"I thought you went bonkers in my absence."

well, I am a charter member of Gun Owners for Strict Gun Control...

One must properly control one's guns.  Otherwise you might miss what you're shooting at.
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K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2239 on: December 28, 2024, 05:41:27 AM »
Some of the most pro gun control people I've ever met have been wealthy people, doctors, lawyers, etc., who regularly engage in shotgun sports.

Yep. You read that correctly.

They don't, you see, own firearms. That would be so low brow. They own FINE SPORTING IMPLEMENTS. A $20,000 Perazzi sporting clays shotgun is NOT a gun! How dare you sully the good name of fine sporting implements like that!

They are not and should not be considered firearms because they are only affordable to the correct people who employ the correct group think!

AR-15s? OMG! How horrible! Weapon of war! YOU JUST WANT TO SHOOT UP A SCHOOL AND AN OLD FOLKS HOME! BAN THEM BAN THEM!

Hand guns? OMG! IF YOU OWN ONE YOUR'RE 22HUNDREDTRILLIONBILLION PERCENT MORE LIKELY TO GO ON A SHOOTING RAMPAGE AND KILL A BUS FULL OF NUNS! BAN THEM BAN THEM!


I wish I were joking. I'm exaggerating... but not by much from what I've seen.

MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

Hawkmoon

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2240 on: December 28, 2024, 08:22:38 AM »
I wish I were joking. I'm exaggerating... but not by much from what I've seen.

Are you sure you're exaggerating? You could have fooled me.
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JTHunter

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2241 on: December 28, 2024, 05:09:10 PM »
Unfortunately, I do NOT believe that to be an "exaggeration".  :facepalm:
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HankB

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2242 on: December 28, 2024, 05:20:22 PM »
. . . American Jews have largely always been pro-gun control . . .
Some Jews differ from that mindset. Vehemently.  See https://jpfo.org/articles-assd02/why-jews-hate-guns.htm

Even though many American Jews are pro-gun control, what I DON'T understand is how the same attitude is possible in a country surrounded by murderous enemies . . . 
Trump won in 2016. And again in 2024. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2243 on: December 29, 2024, 06:55:35 AM »
Some Jews differ from that mindset. Vehemently.  See https://jpfo.org/articles-assd02/why-jews-hate-guns.htm

Even though many American Jews are pro-gun control, what I DON'T understand is how the same attitude is possible in a country surrounded by murderous enemies . . . 


Yeah, that's why I said largely. Largely is not equal to 100% all in lockstep.
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2244 on: December 29, 2024, 06:56:28 AM »
Are you sure you're exaggerating? You could have fooled me.
.

You always have been extremely gullible...
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2245 on: January 01, 2025, 06:55:56 AM »
Here's cheerful news!

Israel took out another top Hamas commander who had a large part in the October 7 attacks.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/israel-kills-hamas-commander-who-led-heinous-oct-7-attack-kibbutz-nir-oz-killed-drone-attack-idf?dicbo=v2-d13CVKG

MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza

WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2246 on: January 15, 2025, 12:29:56 PM »
Reportedly a deal has been reached for the release of the hostages
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“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

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WLJ

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2247 on: January 15, 2025, 12:49:19 PM »
BBC is giving Trump credit, sort of

Quote
Trump's imminent presidency gave the talks a deadlinepublished at 12:43
12:43

Tom Bateman
State Department correspondent, Washington DC

I think the key point here has been that the transition to the Trump presidency and the looming deadline of his inauguration - 20 January - has in effect given a meaningful deadline on these talks.

Both sides knew that the current terms on offer, and the fact that they're guaranteed by the United States, you get much more uncertainty after that date.

There was no guarantee that with a new administration you would get the same guarantees made by the Biden administration into this process - there may be changed priorities.

A new administration will have to take this on in five days' time - but in the meantime the Biden administration will be dealing with the implementation of that agreement.

Israel and Hamas reach Gaza ceasefire and hostage release deal, sources tell BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c3rwqpj70ert
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“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

MillCreek

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2248 on: January 15, 2025, 12:58:36 PM »
If the upcoming inauguration of President Trump scared the parties into making a deal, good for him.
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K Frame

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Re: Israel Under Attack
« Reply #2249 on: January 15, 2025, 01:43:03 PM »
Well FINALLY those horrible genocidal vicious beast Jews are ending their persecution of the peace-loving Muslims who have been deprived of their homeland! DEATH TO JEWS! DEATH TO ISRAEL!

Whoa...

Sorry, I think I was channeling a smelly table-cloth wearing American college student there for a moment.
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
-- Theodorus Gaza