Author Topic: Squatters Should Be Shot  (Read 4768 times)

dogmush

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2024, 03:30:03 PM »
i also think that this problem is more geographically constrained than the mess of internet videos makes it appear.  I know in FL, it's pretty hard to evict a tenant, but it's also more difficult to establish "residency" then the stories we are reading about here seem to claim.  A couple pieces of mail and a doordash receipt ain't gonna cut it.

Perhaps NY and CA and a couple other places have swung a little too far towards the "help the poor innocent tenant against the rich old landlord" in their laws and need to dial it back a bit without going all the way to allowing 24 hr notice evictions.

Has anyone looked at how prevalent these situations are, and if they are clustered in certain states, I wonder?

MechAg94

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2024, 03:33:45 PM »
i also think that this problem is more geographically constrained than the mess of internet videos makes it appear.  I know in FL, it's pretty hard to evict a tenant, but it's also more difficult to establish "residency" then the stories we are reading about here seem to claim.  A couple pieces of mail and a doordash receipt ain't gonna cut it.

Perhaps NY and CA and a couple other places have swung a little too far towards the "help the poor innocent tenant against the rich old landlord" in their laws and need to dial it back a bit without going all the way to allowing 24 hr notice evictions.

Has anyone looked at how prevalent these situations are, and if they are clustered in certain states, I wonder?
Seems like 99% of the stories I hear about are California or New York.  I have noticed that trend.  I just assumed other states had laws that were not so easily manipulated.
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Ben

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2024, 04:48:55 PM »
Perhaps NY and CA and a couple other places have swung a little too far towards the "help the poor innocent tenant against the rich old landlord" in their laws and need to dial it back a bit without going all the way to allowing 24 hr notice evictions.

It's certainly why I got out of landlording in California. The laws were becoming ridiculously one-sided even back when I was living there. The big corporations could thread the legal needle with their attorneys, but it was getting to the point that individual landlords could get wiped out with one bad tenant.
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K Frame

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2024, 04:57:22 PM »
"but it was getting to the point that individual landlords could get wiped out with one bad tenant."

Thats because you slumlords were making everyone else look bad! You should be ashamed of yourself!

Friends of mine have invested quite heavily in rental properties over the years. They have probably a dozen, split between houses and multi-unit apartment buildings.

For the most part he's been lucky, but there's simply no way in hell that I would ever enter into that kind of market in a direct owner fashion as he has.
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Ben

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2024, 05:53:27 PM »
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2025, 02:49:29 PM »
Squatters park an RV on his grandmother's land and declare it theirs since they say they've been there more than 30 days.

https://x.com/ClownWorld_/status/1918733171405078571
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2025, 09:54:20 PM »
Squatters park an RV on his grandmother's land and declare it theirs since they say they've been there more than 30 days.

https://x.com/ClownWorld_/status/1918733171405078571

"Squatters' rights," eh? I'd like to see him find that in the legal code for whatever state that's in.
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230RN

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2025, 05:50:26 AM »
In Colorado I think it's called "Adverse Possession."

WIKI:
Although the elements of an adverse possession action differ by jurisdiction, a person claiming adverse possession in a common law system is usually required to prove non-permissive use of the property that is actual, open and notorious, exclusive, adverse and continuous for the statutory period.[6]

Npte the "actual, open, notorious" and "continuous."

Terry, 230RN

K Frame

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2025, 07:07:06 AM »
I don't know how it is in the western states, but in the states I'm familiar with here in the east, adverse possession of land or real property can take literally years (in some cases in Virginia, up to 25 years) before it can be claimed. Certainly not 30 days with an RV.
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

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K Frame

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2025, 07:08:51 AM »
Liberal winger:

"If you'd shoot someone stealing your property, that means that you value your stuff more than a human life!"


Me:

"So anyway, I start blasting..."
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2025, 11:55:21 AM »
"Squatters' rights," eh? I'd like to see him find that in the legal code for whatever state that's in.

Most of the ones I have heard about regard tenancy rights, essentially if you are there for more than 30 days you're no longer a trespasser but a "tenant".  Regardless of the fact that there is no legal document establishing said tenancy, and that you haven't paid any money in order to be a "tenant".
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2025, 11:57:08 AM »
Hotels in our area (excluding long term stay hotels - they have specific terminology in their rental agreements excluding tenancy rights) cap stays at 29 days in order to prevent someone from establishing tenancy. 
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2025, 02:02:26 PM »
Quote from: 230RN
In Colorado I think it's called "Adverse Possession."

WIKI:
Although the elements of an adverse possession action differ by jurisdiction, a person claiming adverse possession in a common law system is usually required to prove non-permissive use of the property that is actual, open and notorious, exclusive, adverse and continuous for the statutory period.[6]

Npte the "actual, open, notorious" and "continuous."

I am very aware of adverse possession. I believe it exists in every state. As K Frame has already noted, it takes a lot more than 30 days, and in many jurisdictions it requires not just occupying and using the land but also paying the taxes on it. And it's not referred to in law as "squatters' rights."
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MechAg94

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2025, 04:53:41 PM »
Liberal winger:

"If you'd shoot someone stealing your property, that means that you value your stuff more than a human life!"


Me:

"So anyway, I start blasting..."
=)

Or maybe they set the value of their life at the value of my property.  It as their choice.
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MechAg94

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2025, 04:55:51 PM »
The vast number of "squatter" stories I hear about involve people moving into 2nd or 3rd homes where the owners don't want to sell it, but they are stopping by regularly to check on the house.  In many cases, it was a home left by parents or something.  Plus, the people in the house often signed a lease with the squatter who isn't actually staying there.


Maybe look at self defense laws in your state.  What are the rules for self defense in your home or where you are currently staying?  If you were able to break in, now you are inside your own house.  Just make sure you have the paperwork lined up to prove it.  (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal or personal advice.) 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2025, 08:08:38 PM by MechAg94 »
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zahc

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2025, 09:01:40 PM »
The vast number of "squatter" stories I hear about involve people moving into 2nd or 3rd homes where the owners don't want to sell it, but they are stopping by regularly to check on the house.  In many cases, it was a home left by parents or something.  Plus, the people in the house often signed a lease with the squatter who isn't actually staying there.

This is the original scenario that squatters laws exist for. There's a very old common-law idea that you can own land if you are going to use it, and the state will defend your property rights. But you can't expect to own land, fence other people out of it, and then not use it, and not let anyone else use it either, leaving it sit empty while other people might otherwise do something productive with it (including live on it) and actually contribute to the economy. Otherwise you get a bunch of people buying up land and wasting it for speculation.

The people who own houses and leave them empty, in the middle of a housing crisis where vacancy rates are zero and people can't afford housing even that is available, are doing a similar thing...if they were actually living in the house, then squatters wouldn't be a problem, but what I hear about is people who stop by the house they own in a desirable area after not being there for 6 months and find somebody living there...the old-West ethic would say the squatters were within their rights to use the house.

Even if you think people should be able to own empty houses and have the police and state enforce their property rights in absentia forever, the "squatters" actually living there might have signed a lease with squatter or a scammer or whatever so they still deserve due process. I know every time I bought a house and moved into it, I was always paranoid for a while that I would find out there was some paperwork problem and it would turn out there was some technicality that means I didn't own the house and that $100k I wired to the bank went offshore...I rented a 4-bedroom house for a year from some old lady and there's zero way I would REALLY know if that old lady was the legitimate owner or if the real owners were living overseas or in California or something...I just met with the lady, checked out the house, signed some janky typewritten lease document, gave her a downpayment, and moved in...100% possible that real owners might show up one day and shoot me and my family.
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Northwoods

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2025, 09:59:03 PM »
A) *expletive deleted*ing bullshit on your "old west ethic".

B) Anybody who owns property can do what ever they *expletive deleted*ing well please (consistent with local laws).  No matter if it's "inefficient" or offends your sensibilities.

C) the squatters that should be shot are the ones that know damn well they're stealing the property from the rightful owners.  Someone who, in good faith, signs a lease that turns out to be fraudulent is not who anyone is saying deserves to be shot.  That said, they also have no right to the property beyond local legal minimum time to evict.
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K Frame

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2025, 06:23:59 AM »
Shoot'em all, let God sort'em out!
MAGA unto others as you would have them MAGA unto you!

Dogs are our link to paradise. They don’t know evil or jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring—it was peace. — Milan Kundera


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Bogie

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #68 on: May 05, 2025, 08:43:29 AM »
Near my neighborhood, there are several former factories/warehouses.
 
The local tweakmonkeys will take one over, and it's just nasty...
 
Let's see if this works... The google map that I'm looking at is at a former lab building that is on a major north/south street, adjacent to a lot of businesses... It's been occupied by squatters for some time. About the only thing that can be done with it now is demo.
 
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ohgEGkmdjgpsco6DA
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zahc

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2025, 10:07:57 AM »
Quote
Anybody who owns property can do what ever they *expletive deleted*ing well please

Agreed. Strong property rights are the bedrock of any free market or republic. I will preach that gospel until the end. I hope you understand the entire issue at hand, though, is usually establishing who owns the property and therefore who can do whatever the * they please.

Quote
(consistent with local laws).

Yep. And laws do exist. Including due process requirements for evicting people off "your" property (and what you need to do to prove that it's your property and that people on it aren't there legally despite the fact that you evidently haven't been using it or supposedly didn't even know). It's usually not a problem in most jurisdictions to be an absentee property owner. The law allows it, and it should. But the law can't magically distinguish between an absentee property owner who wants to leave their property empty, and one who is leasing out their property (including potentially sub-leasing etc.) but then suddenly changes their mind and wants to evict the tenants illegally. There is some minimum level of paperwork required of a responsible property owner. There's no automatic winner in property disputes, and if there is a "presumed burden of proof", traditionally it will fall to the one actually occupying or using the property, not the guy who shows up one day waving a title. American history is full of cases where people bought or leased property in good faith, maybe for generations, put in crops, built a cabin, did improvements, then some guy from "back East" shows up with a piece of paper claiming actually HE owns the property and you all have to leave now, including all the improvements you made. Property disputes are disputes for a reason. And possession is 9/10ths of the law, especially in the case of land. There's a reason real estate lawyers, tenant protections, and title insurance exist.

Quote
C) the squatters that should be shot are the ones that know damn well they're stealing the property from the rightful owners.  Someone who, in good faith, signs a lease that turns out to be fraudulent is not who anyone is saying deserves to be shot.

I might agree with you there (shooting/hanging thieves is sometimes good policy). But how do you know who the thief is, without due process? This is why due process and documentation requirements exist. If you are a responsible property owner who is actually managing his property competently, the situation shouldn't arise, and if it does it should be straightforward to prove ownership and evict any squatters. Those situations don't tend to make the news though. The less straightforward ones are the ones you hear about.


« Last Edit: May 05, 2025, 10:28:06 AM by zahc »
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MechAg94

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2025, 09:16:46 AM »
I think people would be more likely to rent out an extra home if the laws and regulations didn't make it so hard to manage.  In some states, someone can move in and then stop paying rent, then it takes months and months to legally evict them.  The owner continues to pay taxes and may be prevented from cutting off utilities while the renter wrecks the house.  There was a story from New York where a guy had strung things along in court for 17 years. 

I can understand why someone might leave the house empty and wait for a good time to sell.


Since you mentioned a housing crisis:  don't forget about the zoning regulations that prevent people from converting old retail/industrial locations into apartments.  Or the permitting rules that make it extremely difficult and expensive to add on or modify existing properties.  Not to mention all those things that make it easier for corporations to buy up residential property. 
Lots of reasons for the "housing crisis", but most of the reasons start and end with government, not some poor sap with a second home they don't want to rent out. 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Squatters Should Be Shot
« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2025, 02:09:47 PM »
Perhaps squatters should be given a new home, with a meal plan, uniforms, communal showers, and possibly a job working for the state.
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