Author Topic: Bridge collapse in Baltimore  (Read 2046 times)

MechAg94

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #100 on: April 01, 2024, 09:09:23 AM »
Why I Don't Care About the Fallen Bridge in Baltimore || Peter Zeihan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ2Z4ozK2b0

I post this mainly due to him mentioning the Jones Act which apparently puts some restrictions on water transport of goods within the US.  I hadn't heard of that. 

Quote
Often referred to as the “Jones Act” after the bill's sponsor, Senator Wesley Jones, the legislation restricted American coastwise and intercoastal trade to U.S.-flagged vessels.
A google search mostly seems to find links on a law regarding the Philippines. 
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dogmush

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #101 on: April 01, 2024, 09:43:41 AM »
The TL:DR on the Jones act is that it requires any goods shipped by water between two US ports to do so on ships built in the US and owned and crewed by US citizens (corps) or leagal migrants (green card holders).  It was supposed to invigorate US merchant shipping after WWI, but these days it means that large ships can't make multiple US stops, unless they go to a different country in between.

Some examples:  If you are coming from China, a ship can't stop in Hawaii and drop some stuff, then go to LA unless it's US built, owned and crewed.  Same scenario for AK on the way to Seattle.
On the other coast, a ship can't stop in San Juan on the way to Miami, nor can one make multiple stops up and down either coast to cut the cost of transport. 

In practice since there are *very* few US built, owned and crewed deep water cargo vessels, and US shipyards can't or won't build new ones at competitive prices, it means that US bound cargo is held overseas until there is a full boat's worth going to one port.  It also economically incentivizes fewer large ports (so ships can come in and drop the full load) and the infrastructure bottle necks both on the maritime side and the land distribution side that that entails.

MechAg94

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #102 on: April 01, 2024, 10:06:48 AM »
I think that may be the law I heard someone mention when talking about Puerto Rico.  It makes it very tough for Puerto Rico to do anything with international trade or act as a transit point for international trade.  May have been another law that has more specific restrictions.
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Ben

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WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #104 on: April 06, 2024, 11:05:31 AM »
The Bidens have been watermen in Baltimore since the 1800s.

https://twitchy.com/dougp/2024/04/06/usa-today-went-full-border-security-propaganda-in-story-about-bidens-stop-at-the-collapsed-bridge-n2394799

He's still in shock, his son died as his train was crossing that bridge after all.
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Ben

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zahc

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #106 on: April 06, 2024, 07:29:39 PM »
The TL:DR on the Jones act is that it requires any goods shipped by water between two US ports to do so on ships built in the US and owned and crewed by US citizens (corps) or leagal migrants (green card holders).  It was supposed to invigorate US merchant shipping after WWI, but these days it means that large ships can't make multiple US stops, unless they go to a different country in between.

Some examples:  If you are coming from China, a ship can't stop in Hawaii and drop some stuff, then go to LA unless it's US built, owned and crewed.  Same scenario for AK on the way to Seattle.
On the other coast, a ship can't stop in San Juan on the way to Miami, nor can one make multiple stops up and down either coast to cut the cost of transport. 

In practice since there are *very* few US built, owned and crewed deep water cargo vessels, and US shipyards can't or won't build new ones at competitive prices, it means that US bound cargo is held overseas until there is a full boat's worth going to one port.  It also economically incentivizes fewer large ports (so ships can come in and drop the full load) and the infrastructure bottle necks both on the maritime side and the land distribution side that that entails.

It's also a handout to Canada, truckers, and railroads in practice. In other words, a classic American-style grift. Lots of stuff goes to LA, then up to Canada and trucked back across the border to the US. And the equivalent on the East Coast.
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230RN

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #107 on: April 06, 2024, 10:29:27 PM »
It's also a handout to Canada, truckers, and railroads in practice. In other words, a classic American-style grift. Lots of stuff goes to LA, then up to Canada and trucked back across the border to the US. And the equivalent on the East Coast.


I kind of thought it was just a natural result of America's growing isolationism at the time, but you put a new perspective on it.  I did not see that "angle."

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K Frame

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #108 on: April 07, 2024, 08:05:02 AM »
At the time the Jones act was adopted it wasn't a gift to anyone other than Americans.

As Terry said, it was adopted in part to bolster American shipping after WW I, in part due to the growing isolationism and in part of grabbing back part of the shipping traffic that had been freed up by the war, and which had previously been largely owned by Britain.

It certainly wasn't a gift to the trucking industry because in 1920 the trucking industry didn't exist in the form it now takes. It may have been a boon for the railroads, but I certainly don't see how given that to get cargo to a port to get it on a ship the only option was the railroads. That didn't change.

The problem is... reality has change, and the law hasn't. So yeah, a lot of stuff that would ship out of US ports now has to tranship, either to Canada or to an intermediate location.

And the US flagged merchant fleet that existed in 1920 is essentially extinct.
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MechAg94

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #109 on: April 09, 2024, 09:01:11 PM »
Massive container ship loses power near NYC’s Verrazzano Bridge days after Baltimore Key Bridge disaster
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/massive-container-ship-loses-power-near-nyc-s-verrazzano-bridge-days-after-baltimore-key-bridge-disaster/ar-BB1lea2y


Quote
The US Coast Guard confirmed that its Vessel Traffic Service received a report that the 89,000-ton M/V Qingdao lost propulsion about 8:30 p.m. as it traversed Kill Van Kull waterway — the shipping lane between Staten Island and Bayonne, New Jersey.

An image shared on X by John Konrad, CEO of maritime-focused news outlet gCaptain, shows the 1,100-foot Qingdao floating uncomfortably close to the span that connects Brooklyn and Staten Island.

Konrad said the Qingdao was being escorted by three tug boats, but needed three more to bring it under control.

I guess this probably wouldn't make news a few months ago.
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230RN

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #110 on: April 10, 2024, 04:51:47 AM »
(

Incidental FYI:

"...as it traversed Kill Van Kull waterway —"

As a kid living in New York City, the use of the word "kill" was a puzzle to me.  Kill this, Kill that was all over the place.  Fishkill was especially troublesome.

WIKI
"A kill is a body of water, most commonly a creek, but also a tidal inlet, river, strait, or arm of the sea. The term is derived from the Middle Dutch kille (kil in modern Dutch), meaning "riverbed" or "water channel".[1] It is found in areas of Dutch influence in the Netherlands' former North American colony of New Netherland, primarily the Hudson and Delaware Valleys."

I lived in Flushing, Queens, near Flushing Bay, which was another puzzle to me.  My phone number was FLushing 3-nnnn.  Danged furrin words.

:rofl:

)



« Last Edit: April 10, 2024, 05:12:58 AM by 230RN »

WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #111 on: April 10, 2024, 07:28:08 AM »
Right after I saw it was the F.S.Key bridge and knowing how the left loves to paint F.S.K. as a racist who wrote a racist poem which was then turned into a racist nation anthem I was thinking the new bridge will be the BLM Bridge or the George Floyd Bridge.


And right on cue

Civil rights groups call for collapsed Baltimore bridge to be renamed when it's rebuilt because legacy of national anthem author Francis Scott Key is 'clouded with racism accusations'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13289391/rename-francis-scott-key-bridge-rebuild-racist-history.html

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230RN

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #112 on: April 10, 2024, 07:33:50 AM »
But isn't renaming it the BLM or George Floyd Bridge racist?

I don't understand.  Am I guilty of Consistency?

K Frame

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MechAg94

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #114 on: April 13, 2024, 06:41:56 PM »
Barges break free on Ohio River in Pittsburgh; marina damage extensive, Sewickley Bridge closed as barge set to pass
https://triblive.com/local/barges-break-free-on-ohio-river-in-pittsburgh/

Quote
More than two dozen barges broke loose Friday night and floated uncontrolled down the Ohio River, causing extensive damage to at least two marinas and prompting the temporary closure of the West End and McKees Rocks bridges.
..........
Twenty-six barges broke free at about 11:35 p.m. Friday night from a location near the West End Bridge at mile marker 1 on the Ohio River, according to the U.S. Coast Guard.

Twenty-three barges were loaded with dry cargo — 22 had coal, one with fertilizer — and three were empty, said Coast Guard spokesman Eyobe Mills.
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WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #115 on: Today at 09:47:35 AM »
Reportedly the FBI has opened a criminal probe into what the crew knew about the ship's problems.

In other news the FBI has also begun to round up any known MAGA supporters who's cell phones showed them in Baltimore on Jan 6 2021.

« Last Edit: Today at 10:00:25 AM by WLJ »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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