Author Topic: Bridge collapse in Baltimore  (Read 2048 times)

K Frame

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2024, 08:30:08 AM »
https://www.foxnews.com/us/safety-investigators-probe-whether-dirty-fuel-contributed-francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse

Bet rebuild will cost well north of $1b and it wouldn't shock me $2b

Well that can't be right, because ALL fuel is dirty!

And racist!
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MechAg94

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2024, 09:32:33 AM »
One comment I saw yesterday was paraphrased:  "I was today years old when I learned bridges could be knocked down so easily." 

 I was thinking bridges like that had pylons of some sort around the supports, but this one didn't have much.  Not sure what would be necessary to resist impact from ships that size.
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MechAg94

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2024, 09:34:39 AM »
Some video footage of the ship after the collision:

https://twitter.com/Dragonsoul9Fire/status/1772678704935620923

Probably best to ignore most of the comments.  Lots of [tinfoil]
The twitter post implies there is something there to see.  All I see is an anchor chain on one side and a hole in the ship on the other.  The community notes imply there is some marking to be seen, but I don't know what they are talking about.
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WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2024, 09:43:15 AM »
Some video footage of the ship after the collision:

https://twitter.com/Dragonsoul9Fire/status/1772678704935620923

Probably best to ignore most of the comments.  Lots of [tinfoil]
The twitter post implies there is something there to see.  All I see is an anchor chain on one side and a hole in the ship on the other.  The community notes imply there is some marking to be seen, but I don't know what they are talking about.

Down in the comments
The bow thruster symbols are iron crosses :facepalm:
« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 10:02:14 AM by WLJ »
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MechAg94

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2024, 09:43:45 AM »
Maybe they could open bids for naming rights.  It could be the Truth Social bridge.   =)
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2024, 09:53:49 AM »
Maybe they could open bids for naming rights.  It could be the Truth Social bridge.   =)

Right after I saw it was the F.S.Key bridge and knowing how the left loves to paint F.S.K. as a racist who wrote a racist poem which was then turned into a racist nation anthem I was thinking the new bridge will be the BLM Bridge or the George Floyd Bridge.

Although naming it the George Floyd Bridge opens the door to sick The "I can't breath" Bridge jokes if you catch my drift.
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HankB

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2024, 10:07:09 AM »
https://www.foxnews.com/us/safety-investigators-probe-whether-dirty-fuel-contributed-francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse

Bet rebuild will cost well north of $1b and it wouldn't shock me $2b
How much for the actual rebuild and how much for the graft, kickbacks, and other mordida?
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dogmush

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2024, 10:53:25 AM »
One comment I saw yesterday was paraphrased:  "I was today years old when I learned bridges could be knocked down so easily." 

 I was thinking bridges like that had pylons of some sort around the supports, but this one didn't have much.  Not sure what would be necessary to resist impact from ships that size.

Like anything else Bridge design changes.  Newer bridges that span major shipping channels often do incorporate pylons to shove ships away from bridge supports.  Below is a picture of the pylons in front of the Sunshine Skyway bridge over Tampa Bay. The pylons are about 70ft in diameter concrete and steel.  The current Sunshine Skyway was opened in 1987 after the previous bridge collapsed due to being hit by a cargo ship.

Wiki tells me that construction began on the Francis Scott Key Bridge in 1972, so it may predate the common use iof anti-ship pylons.  I'll bet the replacement span has them though.

 

dogmush

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2024, 11:08:52 AM »
Interesting data point:

After posting that I tried to think of other ports in the US that both serve deep water large shipping, have to go under a bridge to get there, and have a relatively new bridge.  New York and SF are obviously old bridges, as is the Delaware Memorial Bridge (over the Delaware River).

The San Diego-Coronado Bridge looks to have extra pylons/fenders added to it at some point.

Most other large ports I can thing of are either not behind a bridge, or the bridge has been there for 50ish years.  So I'm not sure how prevalent anti-ship pylons are going to end up being in new construction.  Looking at NY and S harbor on satellite views, this might be a good use of some of those infrastructure funds.  Dropping the Golden Gate or Verrazano Narrows Bridges would be a much bigger deal economically than Baltimore is.

Ben

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2024, 11:15:03 AM »
I'm following with interest (with all due respect to the dead) the economic fallout from this. Much of it is breathless talking heads this morning, but it looks like we'll get a definite sampling of the negative consequences of an event like this. Yesterday I posted that Baltimore is the 18th busiest port, but this morning I heard 10th. Possibly different metrics.

It is apparently the #1 port for auto parts, and also gets a large number of RORO ships. Especially those carrying agricultural equipment. Some trucking industry people interviewed were saying that the rerouting is already becoming a boondoggle.
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K Frame

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2024, 12:02:57 PM »
Are there any bridges over the shipping lanes into the Port of Philadelphia?

There have to be. Of course... Ben Franklin Bridge and the Delaware Memorial Bridge.

Not sure if the Betsy Ross or Walt Whitman are north of the primary port facilities or not.
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dogmush

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2024, 01:38:05 PM »
Interesting addendum to the pylon question above:

NTSB released some drone footage of the wreck, and it appears that some small anti-ship pylons had been built on wither side of the main supports.  You can clearly see them maybe 2/3rds the length of M/V Dali out on either side of the main bridge supports.  There also appears to be scrape marks on Dali's Stbd bow like she turned into and hit the pylon and rubbed along it, but was still turning so when her bow cleared the pylon it turned back into the bridge.  That would imply sustained Stbd turn input, either from rudder input, or the stbd anchor was out and dragging.  I can't tell from the video if the stbd anchor is housed or not, it's under the bridge pieces. 

Also those pylons must be reasonably new, because they aren't on Google Maps sat view.

Drone video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P1x1ifFHsY

Jim147

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2024, 02:05:00 PM »
One small blub on this this morning said the anchor was out and turned the boat into the bridge.
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dogmush

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2024, 02:40:43 PM »
One small blub on this this morning said the anchor was out and turned the boat into the bridge.

I have heard that from several blurbs, but the blurbs I have read/heard all said specifically they drpped the port anchor.  Problem being the port anchor is in a picture stowed after the crash, and the port anchor doesn't turn a boat to stbd.

If they dropped the stbd anchor and dragged it it could cause the turn seen in the videos.

WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2024, 03:48:42 PM »
Port anchor chain can be seen in the first picture. It may or may not have been dropped afterwards but I'm thinking afterwards because correct me if I'm wrong but if it was dropped before impact and dragged shouldn't the chain be angled to aft?
In the first and second pictures unless I'm missing something I don't see the starboard chain and where it should be appears to be in very bad shape.
Reported the black box is in the hands of investigators so maybe it'll provide some answers



« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 04:08:58 PM by WLJ »
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dogmush

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2024, 04:09:29 PM »
I posted a link to a pic back in Reply 30 that shows the ship under the bridge and the port anchor clearly housed.  I'm gonna bet they lowered it in the aftermath once the sun came up just as insurance against not drifting off the bridge wreckage.

Pic is here:  https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/photos/of/ships/shipid:2810451/shipname:DALI?order=date_uploaded

As for the Stbd anchor........ I'm pretty sure I see it in that picture you posted WLJ.  Look sitting on the bridge wreckage kinda midship on the Dali.  Just over the bow of that orange RIB.  I'm like 75% sure that's the Stbd anchor.

ETA: That pic is the first time I noticed that.  I'm gonna have to wait till I get home and can put stuff on a big screen in 4K to be more sure than: "It kinda looks like the anchor and chain"

WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2024, 04:22:15 PM »
I posted a link to a pic back in Reply 30 that shows the ship under the bridge and the port anchor clearly housed.  I'm gonna bet they lowered it in the aftermath once the sun came up just as insurance against not drifting off the bridge wreckage.

Pic is here:  https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/photos/of/ships/shipid:2810451/shipname:DALI?order=date_uploaded

As for the Stbd anchor........ I'm pretty sure I see it in that picture you posted WLJ.  Look sitting on the bridge wreckage kinda midship on the Dali.  Just over the bow of that orange RIB.  I'm like 75% sure that's the Stbd anchor.

Took me a moment to see what you're pointing out but I wouldn't be betting any money that being the anchor. If we're thinking they dropped the starboard anchor before impact why would it be on top of the wreckage? It should be sitting on the bottom of the channel.
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dogmush

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2024, 04:42:00 PM »
I'm thinking they didn't drop it. I'm thinking the bridge tore the windlass up when it hit the bow and the anchor fell off in the allision

WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2024, 04:43:04 PM »
Biden: We gonna pay for it all
Janet Yellen: No so fast

Quote
U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on Wednesday appeared to walk back comments from President Joe Biden that U.S. taxpayers would foot the bill for the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse.

Appearing on MSNBC Wednesday, Yellen said money from the bipartisan infrastructure law that could “potentially be helpful.”

“My expectation would be that ultimately there’ll be insurance payments, in part, to cover this. But we don’t want to allow worrying about where the financing will come from to hold up reconstruction,” Yellen said.

Her comments come a day after Biden said it was his “intention that the federal government will pay for the entire cost of reconstructing that bridge, and I expect the Congress to support my effort.”

Biden said that, while the effort will take some time, the people of Baltimore “can count on us.”

Janet Yellen walks back Biden's comments US taxpayers to foot the bill for Baltimore bridge collapse
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/us-baltimore-bridge-collapse-mass-casualty-event-03-26-2024


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Ben

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2024, 04:43:28 PM »
I'm thinking they didn't drop it. I'm thinking the bridge tore the windlass up when it hit the bow and the anchor fell off in the allision

Was the allison in chains?
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WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2024, 04:51:35 PM »
I'm thinking they didn't drop it. I'm thinking the bridge tore the windlass up when it hit the bow and the anchor fell off in the allision

I look at the picture again and now I see the chain.
So what's going with they dropped an anchor before impact story? The starboard anchor is on top of some wreckage which would mean it wasn't dropped at all and the port anchor chain is straight and you saw it still up in after photos  which means it was dropped afterwards. Something is not adding up or the media is f'ing with us. I've seen some ships have three anchors, two on one side one on the other. Any evidence of this?
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dogmush

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #72 on: March 27, 2024, 04:53:05 PM »
Nope, not that I've seen in before pics.

WLJ

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #73 on: March 27, 2024, 05:02:59 PM »
Nope, not that I've seen in before pics.

Me neither but I thought I would ask if you saw any.

Well unless we're off base here either the pilot and/or crew is lying about dropping the anchor before impact and/or the media is lying (shocker) about what they said.

Edit: Maybe the pilot gave the order to drop anchor but the crew didn't actually carry out the order. Maybe that's what's going on here.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 05:25:00 PM by WLJ »
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230RN

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Re: Bridge collapse in Baltimore
« Reply #74 on: March 27, 2024, 05:04:33 PM »
Biden: We gonna pay for it all
Janet Yellen: No so fast

Janet Yellen walks back Biden's comments US taxpayers to foot the bill for Baltimore bridge collapse
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/us-baltimore-bridge-collapse-mass-casualty-event-03-26-2024


I was going to post, "Not with my dough, you ain't," but it got covered pretty quick.

This administration will undoubtedly be named the "What he meant was" Presidency..