Author Topic: Computer font dilemma  (Read 561 times)

Hawkmoon

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Computer font dilemma
« on: May 09, 2024, 05:17:27 PM »


My computers currently run Windows 10. For testing and comparison, I have installed on my primary desktop computer Microsoft Office 2019, SoftMaker Office 2024, and LibreOffice 7.x.x.

Some time ago I noticed that this computer had somehow, somewhere, installed a huge number of fonts, all beginning with "Noto." (More than 100 of them, IIRC.) A bit of research on the Internet has told me that these fonts originated with Google and that they are intended to provide similar-appearing fonts in every language. That's wonderful, but I don't write in every language. I write almost exclusively in American English, and a bit of Spanish and French once in a while.

When I discovered the Noto fonts on my computer, I laboriously went through and uninstalled all of them. They came back! I suspect they were installed when LibreOffice updated itself. Does that seem like a reasonable supposition? More importantly, is there any reason why I shouldn't delete them -- again? More importantly still, if I delete them, how can I prevent them from returning aggain and again ... on every computer I own? Did I miss an option in LibreOffice to skip installing Noto fonts?

I continually want to use a font manager to get some measure of control over all the fonts I have on my computers, but I have no idea how they are supposed to function. They don't have user manuals. In fact, I have FOUR of them: FontBase, Nexus Font, and High-Logic Main Font (all free), plus the font manager that was bundled with the font collection I bought from SoftMaker. The problem is, NONE of them come with a user manual, so after installing them on my computer I have zero idea how to use them. I have made repeated requests on the SoftMaker support forum for a font manager user manual, and the answer is always, "It's easy! (I've been using it for twenty years, so I know.)" [Not helpful]

Thank you.
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lee n. field

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2024, 07:07:59 PM »

My computers currently run Windows 10. For testing and comparison, I have installed on my primary desktop computer Microsoft Office 2019, SoftMaker Office 2024, and LibreOffice 7.x.x.

Some time ago I noticed that this computer had somehow, somewhere, installed a huge number of fonts, all beginning with "Noto." (More than 100 of them, IIRC.) A bit of research on the Internet has told me that these fonts originated with Google and that they are intended to provide similar-appearing fonts in every language. That's wonderful, but I don't write in every language. I write almost exclusively in American English, and a bit of Spanish and French once in a while.

When I discovered the Noto fonts on my computer, I laboriously went through and uninstalled all of them. They came back! I suspect they were installed when LibreOffice updated itself. Does that seem like a reasonable supposition?

I checked one of my laptops.  Win 11, Libre Office 24.2.  Control panel/fonts is showing 14 Noto fonts.  No other office other than the stub of 365 that a bare install of W11 puts there.

  So, maybe they came from Libre.

(Wikipedia on Noto fonts notes that Libra since 6.0 installs Noto fonts)

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2024, 10:40:05 PM »
Update: I said "over 100" Noto fonts. In fact, it's 394 fonts in all. I just deleted them. Now I have to do the same thing on six more computers. And there doesn't appear to be a way to prevent LibreOffice from installing them, so the next time LO updates I guess I'll have to do the same thing all over.
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K Frame

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2024, 07:10:41 AM »
Why are you deleting them instead of just ignoring them?

Are they causing functionality issues?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2024, 08:39:12 AM »
Why are you deleting them instead of just ignoring them?

Are they causing functionality issues?

Most sources agree that too many fonts slows down Windows performance, so that's a potential concern. The larger concern for me, which I suppose is a "functionality issue," is that I use word processing software (primarily MS Word, but also SoftMaker Office and LibreOffice for a number of different tasks, including formatting books for print. When using the drop-down menu to change the font for a selection of text or in a style, those 394 fonts belong to 45 font families. So that makes my drop-down font list 45 entries longer, and to reach anything lower in the alphabet than "Noto" I have to scroll through all of those 45 Noto fonts -- which I will never use.

It isn't be an issue at work. At work, the town has standardized on Calibri, so my document templates are preset and, if I need to make a new one, Calibri is near the top of the list. At home, it's a nuisance.
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lee n. field

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2024, 11:36:18 AM »
Are you sure it's not Softmaker Office?  I checked a different computer.  My work PC, Win 10, Libre 7.something and MS Office 2010.  17 Noto fonts.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2024, 09:48:41 PM »
Are you sure it's not Softmaker Office?  I checked a different computer.  My work PC, Win 10, Libre 7.something and MS Office 2010.  17 Noto fonts.

Yes. SoftMaker sells fonts. They're not giving away Google fonts.
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lee n. field

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2024, 12:16:11 PM »
So, what's different that your computer getting 300 Noto fonts, and mine under 20? 
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2024, 03:02:18 PM »
So, what's different that your computer getting 300 Noto fonts, and mine under 20?

Don't know. I'll have to check one of the seldom-used computers for Noto fonts, then install or update LibreOffice and see if there's any change. And also check to see if there's an option to NOT install those fonts, but I'm pretty certain that's not addressed in the custom installation settings.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2024, 04:13:00 PM »
Update: I fired up my oldest desktop computer. I had LibreOffice 7.6.6.3 installed and NO Noto fonts. The current long-term stable version of Libre Office is 7.6.7.2, so I downloaded that and installed it. After the installation, I found 17 Noto font families installed, with a total of 48 Noto fonts installed.

I have removed them. There was no option in the custom settings for LibreOffice where I could tell it not to install the Noto fonts.
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JTHunter

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2024, 06:44:43 PM »
Hawk - your dilemma got me curious so I checked my Win. 7 font folder.  It says I have 294 font styles but not all are "triples" (reg., bold. italic) and those would be the graphic ones like "Bon Apetit MT".  Many haven't been used in years and some, "Book Antiqua" and "Bookman Old Style" appear to be virtually identical.  Several are sci-fi related (Star Trek {Federation, Klingon, & Romulan}, Babylon 5, Dwarf & Germanic runes, and even 4 "Wingdings") while some are "classic" fonts like "KingsCross" and "King Arthur".  A few are even like handwriting script (Chopin).  I have used them when I used to make cards for relatives.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2024, 09:19:50 PM »
@JTHunter - Even after deleting the Noto fonts I have hundreds of fonts on all my computers. Most have been used infrequently, some have never been used, but (aside from the Noto fonts) I am reluctant to remove others because with the graphics tasks I undertake, there's a real possibility I might want one of them the day after I deleted it.

Which is why the second part of my original question was about font managers. I'd like to know if anyone uses one. If so, which one, how well does it work, and how difficult is it to set up and use>
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lee n. field

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2024, 02:02:48 PM »
Update: I fired up my oldest desktop computer. I had LibreOffice 7.6.6.3 installed and NO Noto fonts. The current long-term stable version of Libre Office is 7.6.7.2, so I downloaded that and installed it. After the installation, I found 17 Noto font families installed, with a total of 48 Noto fonts installed.

I have removed them. There was no option in the custom settings for LibreOffice where I could tell it not to install the Noto fonts.

I usually install using the installer from ninite.com, which automates things.  I went and uninstalled Libre Office from the one Windows laptop I'm looking at.  That also removed all 14 or whatever Noto fonts.

Went to Libre's website, downloaded the current nstaller from there, and ran it.  During the installation there is an option for a typical installation, or a custom one.  I picked custom.  I changed nothing in that.  I didn't see anything that looked font related.  When that install is all done, I have the same small handful of Noto fonts.

So, I have no idea where your crowd of fonts is coming from.  I can't replicate it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2024, 07:41:21 PM by lee n. field »
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2024, 04:21:45 PM »
My most recent update of LibreOffice installed 17 Noto typeface families which (since most include regular, bold, italic, and bold italic variations) amounts to 48 font files. Quite a bit less than the hundreds I had before -- those may have come from a previous LibreOffice installation, if I allowed it to install for all languages.

So I know where the Noto fonts came from and how to delete them. Now I want to better manage the fonts I have -- and any fonts I choose to install in the future. Does any one use a font manager in Windows? If so, which one? How does it work, and how well does it work?
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JTHunter

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2024, 02:30:50 PM »
It isn't really a "manager" as Ionly use the fonts through the drop-down menu in Word 2000.
Yeah, 2000.
I'm a Luddite in that, if something works for you, why pay for a questionable upgrade?
  :old:  =D
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2024, 02:40:27 PM »
It isn't really a "manager" as Ionly use the fonts through the drop-down menu in Word 2000.
Yeah, 2000.
I'm a Luddite in that, if something works for you, why pay for a questionable upgrade?
  :old:  =D

You're right -- that's not font management.

That's how I access fonts too. And every time I install a new font [family] for use on a specific book or project, that drop-down list gets longer and longer. Which is why I'm looking for a font manager. As for paying for a questionable upgrade, a font manager isn't an upgrade -- it's a separate program. And I think I mentioned that I'm interested in the free font managers, of which there are several.
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JTHunter

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Re: Computer font dilemma
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2024, 02:49:37 PM »
The upgrade I was thinking about was an MS upgrade to a more recent version of Word.
The font I use the most is also what I use here - Times New Roman.  I dislike Arial as I can't tell a "1" from a small "l" in it.
“I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted.  The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”