More on the EV boondoggle

[HankB]

It's been a couple of years since Congress and Joe Biden allocated $7,500,000,000.00 to build electric vehicle charging stations. This amount of money was supposed to build half a million across the nation.

So far - two years in - only 7 have been built across 4 states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2024/03/28/ev-charging-stations-slow-rollout/

Jesse Waters' program last night differed a little in that he said 8 had been built. They found one nearby - it appeared to be in a parking garage - and they said a couple of the chargers were out of service, the others weren't being used. A close up of the display indicated a price of $0.49 (plus tax) per kilowatt hour, about 4x the cost I'm paying for power. Teslas supposedly use about 25-30 kWh to go 100 miles, so depending on current gas prices, you'd save very little by driving an electric and charging it at one of these stations if you have a moderately thrifty gas car. (Cheaper power would change the running cost per mile considerably.)

Every day, it looks like this "green" initiative is a scam that makes Bernie Madoff and Sam Bankman Fried look like a couple of small time amateur hustlers with a game of three card Monte. 

[Northwoods]

It was never intended to be a viable replacement for ICE cars.  It was intended to force the average person out of car ownership altogether.

[WLJ]

Report Reveals $7.5 Billion In Government EV Charger Spending Has Purchased One 4-Pack of Energizer AAs
https://babylonbee.com/news/report-reveals-75-billion-in-government-ev-charger-spending-has-purchased-one-4-pack-of-energizer-aas

[dogmush]

I saw an interview with Butigeig discussing this, and the host was giving him a little bit of a hard time over the lack of progress.  I would have paid good money to see someone ask the SECTRANS if they had consulted with Tesla, as Elon seems to be able to build chargers pretty quick.

[230RN]

The aggressively "up-to-date" building i worked in until 2010 had charging stations in the basement parking area.  Also, I recently noticed the "7-11" (not sure of the company) nearby had charging stations behind the gas and diesel pumps.

They were set apart a little, but there they were.  Did not check on costs due to lack of real interest, but I would assume the pricing would be more than one's household electric costs.

Of possible interest and value:

https://www.calculateme.com/energy/gallons-of-gas/to-kilowatt-hours/

Terry, 230RN

[WLJ]

I saw an interview with Butigeig discussing this, and the host was giving him a little bit of a hard time over the lack of progress.  I would have paid good money to see someone ask the SECTRANS if they had consulted with Tesla, as Elon seems to be able to build chargers pretty quick.

This admin doesn't like working with extreme far right wing crazies who think men can't get pregnant and breast feed babies. Wish I was making a joke.

[Perd Hapley]

It was never intended to be a viable replacement for ICE cars.  It was intended to force the average person out of car ownership altogether.

This.

[K Frame]

The building I work in on Tuesdays, where most of our contract is located, just installed 4 chargers on the lower level of the parking garage.

Take that, climate change.

[Bogie]

Politicians LOVE mass transit. It's a Big Thing that they can Stand In Favor Of in lots of photos... It is a Project which Funds will be allocated for.
 
Damn, I'm starting to capitalize like my father...
 
I think I'm gonna put on a geezer hat and go sit in McDonalds with my Big Breakfast...

[HankB]

Politicians LOVE mass transit. It's a Big Thing that they can Stand In Favor Of in lots of photos... It is a Project which Funds will be allocated for.. . .

Which is EXACTLY the point! As only one example of many, California's "Bullet Train to Nowhere" has already sucked up over 11 BILLION dollars since 2006, and NO part of the promised line is running. The short segment from Merced to Bakersfield will probably take a total north of 30 billion dollars to complete, with the full, voter-approved line from LA to Frisco totaling 100 billion or more.

That money isn't literally being heaped on a bonfire or flushed down a toilet - oh no. IT'S ENDING UP IN SOMEONE'S POCKET. CERTAINLY MANY SOMEONES.

And that, my friends, is the entire point. Large public works projects - especially transportation - are a great way to convert public funds into private profits. And so long as the paperwork is in order, the people doing it are legally untouchable.

[zahc]

It was never intended to be a viable replacement for ICE cars.  It was intended to force the average person out of car ownership altogether.

Definitely not true. Current US environmental policy is basically ghostwritten by the automotive industry.  Current EV policy, like all the environmental laws before (CAFE especially), is expertly crafted to benefit key players in the car industry, not the environment. I promise, they aren't going to do anything that reduces American's dependence on them.

[zahc]

So far - two years in - only 7 have been built across 4 states.

Because 2 years isn't very long. There's zero chance of a Federal program like this achieving much in 2 years. It'll take them a year to even figure out the rules. A year to bicker over how to implement them. I'm surprised they got any of them installed in only 2 years.

[WLJ]

Because 2 years isn't very long. There's zero chance of a Federal program like this achieving much in 2 years. It'll take them a year to even figure out the rules. A year to bicker over how to implement them. I'm surprised they got any of them installed in only 2 years.

Serious question: How many charging stations has Tesla built in that time?

[zahc]

Which is EXACTLY the point! As only one example of many, California's "Bullet Train to Nowhere" has already sucked up over 11 BILLION dollars since 2006, and NO part of the promised line is running.

This pretty normal. Projected initial running date is 2030. So of course nothing is running. You have to build the track first; that's how it works.

11 BILLION dollars

...is a drop in the bucket for a large transportation project. The big dig was over 20 billion just to widen a highway in one city that already had a highway. Even the initial segment of CAHSR is projected to connect 5 cities, over hundreds of milesl, all with greenfield development..

The short [editor's note: here "short" means "nearly 500 miles"] segment from Merced to Bakersfield will probably take a total north of 30 billion dollars to complete, with the full, voter-approved line from LA to Frisco totaling 100 billion or more

Correct. What was your point? When they spend billions of dollars to slightly widen a freeway for a few miles, and it accomplishes nothing but increase congestion, which they do constantly all over the country, or when Oregon spends billions on a single bridge, do you even find out about it? Probably not, because it's so normal it's not even newsworthy.

That money isn't literally being heaped on a bonfire or flushed down a toilet - oh no. IT'S ENDING UP IN SOMEONE'S POCKET. CERTAINLY MANY SOMEONES.

Isn't that better? Are you saying it's as scandal that they money isn't flushed down the toilet, but that it's spent on building things? Yes, that's how economies work; when you spend money, the money always ends up in somebody's pocket. In this case it's being used to build a train. You can track the progress if you are interested. https://buildhsr.com/construction-updates/spring-2024/ . They recently got approval for the trainsets (custom Siemens units) and most grade-separation projects are roughed-in.

And that, my friends, is the entire point. Large public works projects - especially transportation - are a great way to convert public funds into private profits. And so long as the paperwork is in order, the people doing it are legally untouchable.

And here you are totally correct, but there's nothing special about the CAHSR system, except that it's probably worth doing, as opposed to most other transportation projects. The difference is that CAHSR is publicized. When Oregon spends 10 billion dollars to replace a single bridge, you don't even hear about it or care about it.

[zahc]

Serious question: How many charging stations has Tesla built in that time?

I don't know, but it's irrelevant. Tesla charging stations aren't publicly (federally) funded. Of course a private company can spend their own money and do whatever they want, there's no oversight needed when you are spending your own money, but it's different when you are spending OPM (MY money). If instead the government allocated the money, and spent it all in 1 year just handing the money out to contractors  to build chargers, just so they could brag they have a spreadsheet that shows they built X chargers in Y amount of time, there would be a huge amount of waste, it would suck, the chargers wouldn't work after a year, and it would be a boondoggle of a different kind, and you would criticize that too.

The historic problem with publically funded EV chargers is that companies get credits (or outright free money) to build them, but they don't get anything to make sure they keep working. So the typical pattern is a charger gets built, but after a year it doesn't work. The federal charger program had a lot of strings attached, like how many chargers were required, they had to be decent (fast) chargers and not pointless trickle chargers, they had to have X % of uptime and be maintained, there were rules about how much money could be charged to consumers, there were requirements about how you had to pay for them (Tesla chargers weren't allowed because you have to use a Tesla app for example, and a public charger needs to accept normal currency and not require you to sign up for an account), etc. etc. this all has to be hashed out. It takes a long time. I wish it were faster. But honestly it takes the company I work for 2 years to do simpler things than that.

[Kingcreek]

A community right off the interstate not too far from here put public access charging stations in front of a building almost in the shadows of 2 wind towers and a solar array (municipal project).
It looks good but the chargers are at least partially powered by a cat diesel generator in the back of the building.

[WLJ]

Serious question: How many charging stations has Tesla built in that time?

I don't know, but it's irrelevant.

I consider it very relevant because it would highlight the contrast in this between letting the commercial market run it's course and the govt with it's upteen layers of bureaucracy forcing it down our throats especially in terms of time and cost.

[dogmush]

^^^
Tesla has been adding ~13,000 superchargers per year for the last couple years.  But, in fairness, the design and planning phase have been complete for a while now so they are just churning out chargers.

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-04-09/tesla-tsla-charging-network-has-become-a-serious-business

[Bogie]

Considering that the chicoms can reverse engineer damn near anything that is produced in the united states in what seems to be a matter of days...
 
We need to step up our game, or just let the private sector have that money. Oh, wait... It is has probably all been "distributed" now to political cronies.

[Ben]

^^^
Tesla has been adding ~13,000 superchargers per year for the last couple years.  But, in fairness, the design and planning phase have been complete for a while now so they are just churning out chargers.

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-04-09/tesla-tsla-charging-network-has-become-a-serious-business

I'm asking because I don't know - is the gov designing chargers rather than using proven designs already out there?

If Biden didn't hate Elon, the gov could have just been giving our taxpayer money to Tesla, either requesting 1000 chargers per year to be placed wherever the gov wants them, or they could have given Elon all that dough, and he probably would have ramped up a new production facility in a couple of months and increased his output.

[HankB]

. . . The big dig was over 20 billion just to widen a highway in one city that already had a highway. . . .

The Big Dig was originally budgeted for about 3 billion, but ultimately cost over 24 billion. That's one heck of a cost over run.

On a more personal level, I remember as a student back in Chicago a modest upgrade to my high school proposed by students was bid by multiple licensed & insured contractors at about $2000. The Board of Education claimed it would cost over $43,000. After much publicity - which infuriated the BofE - the students got approval, raised the money, and got it done. For about 1/20 of what the BofE claimed it would cost.

So . . . my problem isn't with government DOING useful things - my problem is the way they do it and spend taxpayer dollars, which fairly reeks of corruption.

. . . If Biden didn't hate Elon, the gov could have just been giving our taxpayer money to Tesla, either requesting 1000 chargers per year to be placed wherever the gov wants them, or they could have given Elon all that dough, and he probably would have ramped up a new production facility in a couple of months and increased his output.

If Elon were partnered with Robert De Niro, something like that may very well have happened . . . but I suspect the cost would have STILL been much, MUCH higher than the Tesla-owned chargers.

[dogmush]

I'm asking because I don't know - is the gov designing chargers rather than using proven designs already out there?

If Biden didn't hate Elon, the gov could have just been giving our taxpayer money to Tesla, either requesting 1000 chargers per year to be placed wherever the gov wants them, or they could have given Elon all that dough, and he probably would have ramped up a new production facility in a couple of months and increased his output.

They aren't designing them from scratch, as far as I can tell.  The 7.5 Billion is codified in the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Program to provide minimum stnadards for the chargers.  Full rule is here: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03500/national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-standards-and-requirements

but the TL:DR NEVI standards are:

EV charging stations must be non-proprietary, allow for open-access payment methods, be publicly available or available to authorized commercial motor vehicle operators from more than one company, and be located along designated FHWA Alternative Fuel Corridors (AFCs).

Theres a lot more requirements about number of ports, Power Capacity, Networking, uptime, etc.  Google "NEVI Charger Requirements" for multip[le sites going into the details.

[WLJ]

One thing also driving up the costs and slowing production is there is probably a government mandate on it's production and every part involved in that production that it be union made right down to every screw, nut and bolt in factories owned by big dem donors. Also construction of the sites and installation having a union requirement as well with those companies also owned by big dem donors

[WLJ]

And almost forgot, all with government mandated DEI requiurments

[Ben]

EV charging stations must be non-proprietary,

Would that not suggest some specialized design? Again, I'm not up on the tech, but I thought there were several different charger types out there, and certain cars can't use the ones others can. Wouldn't that mean that each non-proprietary station would have to have several plug types?