Author Topic: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.  (Read 2145 times)

dogmush

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2024, 02:36:09 PM »
Disagree.

Every one of Biden's votes added to his claimed mandate.  They voted FOR him.  Morally and ethically, they own a little bit of everything his administration did.  Or didn't do.

Perd Hapley

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2024, 02:59:44 PM »
Disagree.

Every one of Biden's votes added to his claimed mandate.  They voted FOR him.  Morally and ethically, they own a little bit of everything his administration did.  Or didn't do.

It doesn't change the fact they also voted against Trump. In a binary system, every 0 takes the place of a 1.
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dogmush

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2024, 03:19:25 PM »
It's not a binary system though. 


cue cries of: "You're throwing your vote away!" "Those people couldn't win" "If you don't vote, you have basically voted for [person I don't like]!" "There's only two real parties!"

WLJ

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2024, 03:28:12 PM »
It's not suppose to be a binary system but basically has been.
The last time a new party came along and had a member elected president was Lincoln and remember how the dems reacted to that.
Ever since then it's been the D & R show.
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JTHunter

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2024, 04:03:59 PM »
And Lincoln was the first Republican president and we should remember what he did and who and what opposed him.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2024, 04:14:02 PM »
It's not a binary system though. 


cue cries of: "You're throwing your vote away!" "Those people couldn't win" "If you don't vote, you have basically voted for [person I don't like]!" "There's only two real parties!"

Effectively, it is.

Federalists/Anti-Federalists
Federalists/Democratic Republicans
Democrats/Whigs
Democrats/Republicans

It's always been that way.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Hawkmoon

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2024, 04:43:23 PM »
On a philosophical note, I reject the idea that you vote against someone, or against a candidate.  That's not how our system works.  You voted FOR someone.  When Biden stands up and says "I got 82 million votes!" there's not an asterisk that 60 mil of them were actually against Trump. When you cast a vote for someone in the US you are lending them your small portion of legitimacy and authority.   Own that.  If you feel too uncomfortable to say "I voted for [candidate]" and have to coach it in terms of voting against the other one, maybe take a hard look at what you're supporting.  Because you ARE supporting your candidate and their policies.

We all recognize that by "voting against" candidate A we're voting for candidate B. The fact that my vote is tabulated as a vote "for" candidate B doesn't in any way mean that I support or endorse candidate B or his/her platform and policies. If my reason for voting for candidate B is that I think he/she/it is less bad than candidate A ... so be it. That's still my reason for casting my vote for candidate B.

I registered to vote as soon as I was eligible. Around the time of, and no doubt as a result of my service during, the Vietnam it's-not-a-war, I became disenchanted with the two party system (more disenchanted than I had been previously) and as my "protest" I went through a couple or three election cycles without voting. Then I realized that by not voting I wasn't sending any message. A non-vote is a non-message. To the vote counters and strategists, there's no difference between someone who doesn't vote because they're lay and don't care, and someone who doesn't vote because they DO care and have made a conscious decision not to vote.

So I started voting again. For a very long time my guiding principle in House and Senate elections has been to always note against the incumbent, as my feeble protest against the Congress's failure to establish term limits. I don't think there has been a single presidential election since I registered when there was a candidate for either major party I actually felt I could wholeheartedly endorse and support. For a couple or three cycles I voted third party as a matter of principle. And then I awoke to the understanding that no third party in this country has any chance of winning the presidency. While it can be argued that a vote for a third party candidate is one less vote for a very bad candidate, it's also true that a vote for a third party candidate is also one less vote for a not-quite-as-bad, lesser-of-two-evils candidate.

So I'm back to voting for the major party candidate who, in my view, is the lesser of two evils. You are correct that the raw numbers don't regard my vote as a vote "against" candidate A ... but that's what it is.
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griz

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2024, 07:30:26 PM »
Admittedly any system with free election tends to evolve, or devolve, into a two-party system.  That's been true pretty much all over the world.  But it got me wondering, and here's a question for the lesser of two evils voters.  How much support would a third-party candidate need to get your vote?  Say the main two were exactly tied in the polls.  Perot got just under 19 percent when he ran, a significant showing really.  Given the errors in polling, I would assume a 35-35-30 split would be make any dedicated 2 party voter jump ship.  But how about if it got to about 25 percent for the third party?  Would that be close enough to swing your vote?
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Northwoods

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2024, 08:14:21 PM »
I'm voting for Cthulu.  I'm tired of voting for the lesser evil.

I really like his foreign policy of killing everyone and destroying everything. Less enamored of his domestic policy of killing everyone and destroying everything. But you have to take the bad with the good sometimes.
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dogmush

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2024, 08:34:54 PM »
It's not suppose to be a binary system but basically has been.
The last time a new party came along and had a member elected president was Lincoln and remember how the dems reacted to that.
Ever since then it's been the D & R show.

Is a Bull Moose a joke to you?



*yes I know he was a Republican when president,  i just had the meme handy and it was too good to pass up.

WLJ

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2024, 08:42:41 PM »
Yeah TR as a member of the Bull Moose party did come in, admittedly distance, 2nd in the 1912 election but TR was pres as an r so my statement still stands.
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Bogie

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2024, 06:59:24 AM »
The primary strategy of the Democrats this time is "Trump sucks, and is an evil Nazi, so vote against him by voting for... well, we're not going to talk about that record...

And the media is scrubbing the past as fast as it can...
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230RN

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2024, 05:06:44 PM »
I get the idea of voting against a repulsive candidate.  I voted against Hillary and then again against Biden.  But the concept only holds up when the other choice is marginally acceptable.  When it comes down to voting for broken left arm or a broken right arm, I'll vote for neither just to establish a record that somebody thinks both choices suck.

Does the same logic pertain when the other choice is "marginally unacceptable"?

As someone said, "they" want you to not vote for the opposing candidate.  In our mainly two party system that third party just functions to allow you to disenfranchise yourself.

Your broken arm analogy is inappropriate to the situation although it sounds OK when you say it fast and only if you're 100% ambidextrous. This is never the case in an analogous political sense.
 
They (all of them) don't care about your "establishing a record." They only care about your voting for their scurrilous bastard as opposed to the other party's scurrilous bastard.

So, as I say, every once in a while a third party candidate actually wins, but that (in my opinion) is also dependent on popularity --as in heroism, for example --as well as political stance.

"It's a good thing," Terry said wryly, "that Elvis Presley didn't run as a third party candidate for President."

(That also only sounds good if you say it fast.) :)

So, I will say this categorically:  If you want to vote for a third party candidate on whatever grounds you deem appropriate, for the most part, you might as well stay home (or not mail in your ballot).

You have  joined the unwashed majority who don't vote at all.

And don't forget:  Nowadays most people seek public office for their power, not for your principles.

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: August 06, 2024, 05:21:43 PM by 230RN »
Sooner or later, the law output rate will become greater than the Court input rate.  Won't we be in a pretty pickle when the lawmakers discover they can pass any law they want to without danger of any Constitutional review?

Bogie

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2024, 09:36:39 PM »
Do you think we could get Taylor Swift to run?
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WLJ

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2024, 09:38:16 PM »
Do you think we could get Taylor Swift to run?

Already too many lefties in office
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HankB

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2024, 07:37:09 AM »
I've often cast a vote for the lesser evil, cognizant of the fact that a lesser evil is still evil.

In a choice between "really bad" and "even worse" failing to vote at all or going third party helps "even worse" prevail. (Consider Chicago's most recent mayoral election.  :facepalm: )

Even if you don't like the choices at the top of the ticket, down ballot voting can sometimes make a difference.

 
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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Bogie

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2024, 07:43:02 AM »
Some folks don't know how to do anything but pick straight ticket.
 
Others vote how their daddy voted.
 
And some just vote for the guy who they think will be the winner.
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MechAg94

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2024, 09:15:13 AM »
I've often cast a vote for the lesser evil, cognizant of the fact that a lesser evil is still evil.

In a choice between "really bad" and "even worse" failing to vote at all or going third party helps "even worse" prevail. (Consider Chicago's most recent mayoral election.  :facepalm: )

Even if you don't like the choices at the top of the ticket, down ballot voting can sometimes make a difference.
That is a point sometimes (or often in today's politics of corruption).  I think most people are just voting for the candidate they disagree with the least.  Calling them evil or less evil applies more to corrupt politicians and communists.  You can decide if that is true for all of them or not.

If you make a half way educated choice, you are doing better than a lot of voters.  My grandparents were life long Democrat voters.  IMO, a lot of their generation coming out of the Great Depression and WWII were like that.  If you make a voting choice based on the candidate rather than the party, you are doing better than most.  I think many will tell you that, but are really just voting for the party.  I figure I have done that plenty of times myself.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2024, 09:50:42 AM »
Some folks don't know how to do anything but pick straight ticket.
 
Others vote how their daddy voted.
 
And some just vote for the guy who they think will be the winner.

Or the guy who promised them a "free" cell phone.
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K Frame

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2024, 10:03:32 AM »
My Mom once gave me hell for voting straight ticket Republican one election.

"Mom, are you HONESTLY telling me there was one Democrat on that ticket that was worth voting for?"

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HankB

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2024, 11:26:41 AM »
My Mom once gave me hell for voting straight ticket Republican one election.

"Mom, are you HONESTLY telling me there was one Democrat on that ticket that was worth voting for?"
I grew up in Chicago, and came of voting age there. Voted in elections there for about 5 years before moving away permanently. I don't recall any election - NOT ONE - which had a Democrat I could stomach voting for.

I vaguely recall an election or two where the GOP candidate for some local office was odiously awful, on a par with the D. We weren't using the term RINO much back in the 70s, but that's what he was. So I voted Libertarian.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

230RN

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2024, 05:06:41 PM »
Or the guy who promised them a "free" cell phone.

There you go.  And one party in particular seems to cater to the freeloaders.

I'm selective on most of my ballots, but over the years my preferences became subject to the "litmus test" of firearms freedom.  This, on the (not foolproof) idea that if they aren't sensitive to the principles which generated the Bill Of Rights, they are probably in politics for the power trip. (And the sometimes enormously generous retirement benefits.)

Thus, most of my actual ballot choices tend to be "for" the most conservative two-party candidate, despite the fact that I'm kind of a "family Democrat."

I say again that I consider a third-party vote to be a genuine waste of my franchise.

Terry, 230RN
Sooner or later, the law output rate will become greater than the Court input rate.  Won't we be in a pretty pickle when the lawmakers discover they can pass any law they want to without danger of any Constitutional review?

Angel Eyes

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2024, 05:35:05 PM »
Do you think we could get Taylor Swift to run?


Is she old enough?  Have to be at least 35.
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JN01

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2024, 02:04:33 PM »
In the presidential race, the lesser of the two evils question boils down to "which one do I want to appoint federal judges?".

Northwoods

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Re: One of my neighbors told me that I was a radical right wing extremist.
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2024, 02:41:58 PM »
Is she old enough?  Have to be at least 35.


Apparently she turns 35 in December, so by inauguration day she'd be old enough.
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