Taxing unrealized capital gains...

[K Frame]

It's reared its ugly head again with people speculating whether or not Harris will back Biden's tax proposal that will, finally, MAKE PEOPLE PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE!!!!

What a crock of *expletive deleted*it.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/experts-react-harris-plan-tax-unrealized-capital-gains-voodoo-economics

Now, of course, they're saying it's only targeting the rich...

"Reports from The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times have said that Harris supports the tax increases put forth by Biden in his recent budget proposal. This, according to Harris’ campaign, includes a 25% tax on unrealized capital gains for individuals with more than $100 million in wealth; and an increased corporate tax rate between 21% and 28%."

But does anyone think, that once those jackals get their hands on that money, they'd not decide to get even more by dropping the level of wealth required?

[AZRedhawk44]

This is how you crash the stock market.

When Musk has to come up with $50 billion to pay 25% on his $200 billion unrealized net worth, he'll have to sell $50 billion in stock.

Price goes down, everyone's net worth goes down that holds the stock he just sold because he flooded the market.

This is economics 101 dumb.

[Boomhauer]

This is how you crash the stock market.

Thats the point

After their money is safely stashed away of course. The goal is to grind us down and then enslave us.

[Northwoods]

Taxing the rich won't work (because there simplyaren'tenoughof them), hence why "the rich" gets constantly redefined to lower and lower wealth levels.  Or inflation is used to do the same.  Income tax was only supposed to hit the "rich".  AMT was only to stop the "rich" from avoiding taxes with deductions.  Etc.

Next constitutional amendment:

The 16th Amendment is hereby repealed in its entirety.

No tax, other than retail sales tax and import duties shall be imposed by the federal government, the governments of the several states, or any subdivisions thereof.

Additional language to define tax, retail sales, and import duties so they can't call them fees or call something a retail sale that isn't, or call imports anything crossing state lines, some other garbage you know they'd pull.

[Bogie]

My employer has been expanding. We're over 6,000 stores now.
 
To liquidate 25%, what would O'Reilly have to do?
 
I suppose that lawyers and accountants and real estate people would make money...

[HankB]

Without sufficient buyers, "the rich" would have to sign over a lot of their property to the government. (Remember, potential buyers would be forced to sell THEIR assets as well - and couldn't buy a big chunk of Tesla or O'Reilly.)

Fed.gov couldn't run these businesses, so they'd crash and unemployment would skyrocket. And we'd become Venezuela under Chavez or Zimbabwe under Mugabe.

[WLJ]

This is how you crash the stock market.

If you wanted to destroy America from within, or at the very least diminish it's power to a 2nd or even 3rd rate, using the boiling frog method how would it differ from what the dems have been doing for the past 30-40 years?

[Boomhauer]

We are transitioning from the slow boil phase to the fast boil phase.

[WLJ]

We are transitioning from the slow boil phase to the fast boil phase.

Yep

[JTHunter]

If you wanted to destroy America from within, or at the very least diminish it's power to a 2nd or even 3rd rate, using the boiling frog method how would it differ from what the dems have been doing for the past 30-40 years?

"30 to 40"?  More like 60 years, when LBJ took over.  Him and his "great society". 

[K Frame]

"30 to 40"?  More like 60 years, when LBJ took over.  Him and his "great society". 

Now now! We just haven't through enough money at the problems! If we throw more money at it, that will make it a Great Society!

[Hawkmoon]

I'm not an accountant and I wasn't a Finance major, so help me understand this:

"Unrealized" capital gains means the increase -- on paper -- in value of stocks since you bought them, but which you still own because you haven't sold them. So if my stocks increase in value this year and I have to pay taxes on that increase, then if they decrease in value next year I should be able to ckaim an unrealized capital loss, right?

Or, if my stocks increase in value this year and I have to pay taxes on that increase, then if sell them next year I don't get taxed on the increase from the purchase price, I only pay on the increase between what they wee valued last year to what they actually sold for?

This whole scheme sounds like a wet dream for accountants.

[tokugawa]

I already did this once......in a way..
I was worried tech stocks were going down in the late 90's. So I made a trade to a less tech dependent stock, in the same group.  I was right (tech dropped like a rock) and I was wrong (the new stock, touted as less tech infused, was in fact as bad as the first one -my due diligence sucked) . So the net result was losing half of both stocks in their value dropping, and also having to pay the federale's  $10,000 out of pocket because of a "profit" that only existed for a moment on paper.  Having put all my extra cash into those stocks, I then had to use a loan to pay off the vultures.



 

[Northwoods]

I already did this once......in a way..
I was worried tech stocks were going down in the late 90's. So I made a trade to a less tech dependent stock, in the same group.  I was right (tech dropped like a rock) and I was wrong (the new stock, touted as less tech infused, was in fact as bad as the first one -my due diligence sucked) . So the net result was losing half of both stocks in their value dropping, and also having to pay the federale's  $10,000 out of pocket because of a "profit" that only existed for a moment on paper.  Having put all my extra cash into those stocks, I then had to use a loan to pay off the vultures.



 

Had you sold the new stocks at that loss you could have offset that gain.

[zahc]

Taxing the rich won't work (because there simplyaren'tenoughof them), hence why "the rich" gets constantly redefined to lower and lower wealth levels.  Or inflation is used to do the same.  Income tax was only supposed to hit the "rich".  AMT was only to stop the "rich" from avoiding taxes with deductions.  Etc.

Next constitutional amendment:

The 16th Amendment is hereby repealed in its entirety.

No tax, other than retail sales tax and import duties shall be imposed by the federal government, the governments of the several states, or any subdivisions thereof.

Additional language to define tax, retail sales, and import duties so they can't call them fees or call something a retail sale that isn't, or call imports anything crossing state lines, some other garbage you know they'd pull.

Sales tax is more or less income tax. They just tax when you spend it instead of when you make it, with the added negative bonus that you get to declare to the government what you are spending money on, plus the added negative bonus of being regressive.

"Sales tax only" schemes exist to poison the discussion and distract from the real, original single-tax movement, which was that the government should derive income from land taxes only which is the only good tax. The next least bad tax would be a flat tax on all incomes, emphasis on "flat" and "all". A consumption tax is way down the list of desirable taxes, and capital gains should never be taxed at all.

[K Frame]

""Unrealized" capital gains means the increase -- on paper -- in value of stocks since you bought them, but which you still own because you haven't sold them. So if my stocks increase in value this year and I have to pay taxes on that increase, then if they decrease in value next year I should be able to ckaim an unrealized capital loss, right?"

What kind of foolish unpatriotic, undemocratic, MAGA *expletive deleted*it is that?

I had the same discussion with the waste of carbon rep for my area. You could tell that he just couldn't comprehend the concept. Mainly because if you give money back, you can't give that money to illegal trans birth givers with testicles.

[K Frame]

Had you sold the new stocks at that loss you could have offset that gain.

That's exactly what I did some years ago with a true Vanguard dog. Lost me so much money that I had to spread it out over 3 years.

[Northwoods]

Sales tax is more or less income tax. They just tax when you spend it instead of when you make it, with the added negative bonus that you get to declare to the government what you are spending money on, plus the added negative bonus of being regressive.

"Sales tax only" schemes exist to poison the discussion and distract from the real, original single-tax movement, which was that the government should derive income from land taxes only which is the only good tax. The next least bad tax would be a flat tax on all incomes, emphasis on "flat" and "all". A consumption tax is way down the list of desirable taxes, and capital gains should never be taxed at all.

As an individual I don't have declare a damn thing to the fed.gov under a sales tax system. Just like with current state and local sales taxes.

Don't care that it's regressive. If anything that might be better as it incentives becoming rich, rather than punishing it.

Exceptions for basic necessities are also easy to bake in to make less regressive. Most state sales taxes do that too

Also, .your land tax idea sounds an awful lot like property taxes, which is just a way for thr government to actually own everything but let peasants pay rent to say it's theirs.  It's the single most offensive tax we currently have.  Only the tax on unrealized gains would top that.

[Bogie]

A sales tax or use tax would result in a whole lot of unemployed part-time temps who provide their great shake'n'bake knowledge to the firms that sell "we'll do your taxes" at the places like Walmart...

[Unisaw]

A national sales tax would result in a massive loss of power in Congress, and I’m all for that.  In wielding that power, they have produced a monstrosity.  If you need an example, try to understand the rules for an inherited IRA.

A tax on unrealized appreciation of securities would be a disaster, as a lot of people would be forced to sell securities just to pay the tax.

[Northwoods]

A sales tax or use tax would result in a whole lot of unemployed part-time temps who provide their great shake'n'bake knowledge to the firms that sell "we'll do your taxes" at the places like Walmart...

Feature not bug.

Mind you, despite the response above, I'm not cold to the effects on such people. But, I believe such a change would result in a massive economic expansion (assuming total tax revenues were lower than currently) they'd have no problem finding a new career path.

[Bogie]

Imagine Bubba's Used Car Superplex...
 
He's got 100 cars on the lot. He paid an average of 10,000 each, including fixing/detailing. He's asking an average of $20,000 each.
 
On December 31, he's looking at $250,000 in tax...
 
Look at family farms... A million dollars isn't that big...

[zahc]

Capital gains taxes are one of the worst taxes. But the difference between realized and unrealized is minimal.

The law already allows you to deduct capital losses against income, but requires you to realize the losses by selling securities and you are not allowed to buy them back. Conversely you can claim capital gains whenever you want already. This is asymmetrical in favor of paying more taxes and forfeiting more losses.

Switching to a system where you pay unrealized capital gains every year would not make a huge difference overall and would be simpler. If you are also allowed to claim unrealized losses, it could even be better.

It would be preferred to eliminate all taxes on labor and capital and if people were principled they would riot in the streets until it were so. So long as the government claims a portion of your labor you will never be free.

[JTHunter]

Switching to a system where you pay unrealized capital gains every year would not make a huge difference overall and would be simpler.

Au contrere, mon ami.  Taxes on "unrealized funds" means you would have to PAY those additional taxes without additional funding !
Or sell the assets to pay those taxes. 

If you are also allowed to claim unrealized losses, it could even be better.

The government would never allow us to take a loss to reduce our taxes because they "want it all". 

[MechAg94]

Seems to me it would tank investment in affected markets and people with money would be looking for places to park it that were not affected.  What investments are unaffected?  Who would benefit from that change and are those people the ones lobbying for this idea?