Non-Citizens as Police

[RocketMan]

Normally a congressional issue, but I have zero trust for Harris.  I expect her to come up with some kind of illegal bypass or workaround much like Biden did with college loan bailouts.

[dogmush]

I don't trust Harris either, but I trust the folks pulling her strings.  If there was appetite to make these kid's citizens, it would have happened sometime in the last two and a half decades.  Instead what we've gotten is *just* enough noise to get people riled up, but not enough to pass the law, despite the legislative and executive branches going back and forth several times.  When Obama *did* use underhanded executive action he did it in a way that specifically barred them from becoming citizens......ever.


The Uniparty doesn't want amnesty and citizenship for these folks.  They want a underclass that is permanently scared of causing problems for fear of being deported, will work for cheap and pop out kids that can be brainwashed and spun up into marches at a moment's notice, and live in states with nice safe blue electorates to be counted on the census and bump electoral votes.

Actually giving them citizenship or amnesty (or asylum for the ew ones) does nothing at all for TPTB, and risks some of these people deciding that they want to participate in the government, or worse, are conservative.  All downsides, no upsides for the folks in charge.

Oh,  they'll dangle the promise over their heads when they need folks riled up, but just like the "dreamers" nothing will ever happen.


Harris will *expletive deleted*ck plenty up if she wins, but not this one.  There's nothing in it for her.  Her border plan is exactly what we've had for 3.5 years.  Bring as many people in as possible, tie their cases up in decades of red tape, and park them safely in blue cities until the 2030 census.

[cordex]

The Uniparty doesn't want amnesty and citizenship for these folks.  They want a underclass that is permanently scared of causing problems for fear of being deported, will work for cheap and pop out kids that can be brainwashed and spun up into marches at a moment's notice, and live in states with nice safe blue electorates to be counted on the census and bump electoral votes.

Actually giving them citizenship or amnesty (or asylum for the ew ones) does nothing at all for TPTB, and risks some of these people deciding that they want to participate in the government, or worse, are conservative.  All downsides, no upsides for the folks in charge.

If the monolithic black vote starts to split in any meaningful fashion then they will change this in a heartbeat.

[230RN]

There is no pathway for someone that received Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival (DACA) to become a citizen. They can keep renewing their DACA status, or they can get a green card a couple ways (marrying a citizen being the easiest), but since they entered the country illegally, there is no way for them to become a citizen.

But so many laws are centered around "intent," so since they are here by their parents' (or elders') decisions to enter illegally, why are they held to be here illegally if they were "dragged along" by other decision-makers, and are not here by their own choice or ..."intent."

So I dug around a little and this is the first thing that hit me:

NOTE SOURCE:

https://www.usa.gov/daca

"Home  Immigration and U.S. citizenship  Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA)
Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA)
DACA temporarily delays the deportation of people without documentation who came to the U.S. as children. Renewal is not automatic. Learn how to keep your DACA status.

Information about DACA court decisions
U.S. district courts have determined that the DACA policy "is illegal." But those who had obtained DACA on or before July 16, 2021, will still be protected. They will also be able to renew their DACA and work authorization requests.

DACA renewals and work authorization
Learn about renewing your DACA request online, including:

Who is eligible to renew
When to file your renewal request
What documents you need to submit
If you have DACA, you may be eligible for employment. Learn more about work authorization for DACA recipients.

Learn if you are eligible for DACA and how to apply...."

And so on.

I guess the whole mess is a result of successive "strokes of the pen" by uninformed, incompetent, unelected officials, including in the Executive Branch. 

Seems to me the only satisfactory option is for Congress to nullify all prior bureaucratic actions*, declare their entry as involuntary and without intent, therefore not illegal, and therefore afford to them opportunities to attain full naturalization.

But that's just simple-minded me.

Of course, that pits the Legislative Branch against the Executive Branch, but that's not the first time the Judicial Branch had to do it. There seems to be some kind of fundamental "checks and balances" principle involved there.

Terry, 230RN

* See "Bruen," Terry added, grinningly.

[dogmush]

That's not quite it on this one though.

First, while many laws do revolve around intent, illegally entering the country is not one of them.  Intent matters not, and you are subject to deportation if you entered the country illegally.

Second, it's important to use the right terms.  Words have meaning and all that.

Deferred Action on Childhood Arrival is a policy of the executive branch. Specifically, it is an exercise in prosecutorial discretion. You can apply for it, and if you get it it comes with a promise of no deportation and a work permit, but does NOT absolve you of the criminal act of crossing the border.  An approved DACA deferral is good for 2 years, and must be renewed.  The program was started in 2012 and in 2017 the memo authorizing it was rescinded and a "wind down"  was announced.  The last DACA deferral would have expired Oct 2019.

The rescinding of the program was challenged in court and ended up before SCOTUS in 2020, where it was ruled that the Administration had violated the Administrative Procedures Act when they rescinded the program, and so it was reinstated.  There were some more memos that tried to add restrictions, were challenged, and were shot down in court, so that by 7 Dec 2020 DACA was effectively the same as it had been in 2012.

Right after that, on 22 Dec 2020 in a different lawsuit brought by several states in an attempt to kill the program all together a judge found that the initial implementation of DACA back in 2012 violated the APA and so the whole program was illegal.  (yes there is irony there)  That's the court case that Terry found mention of.  In that ruling, the judge said that the program was illegal, but people in the program now, or renewing an active deferral could continue to do so, but no new folks could be granted a deferral, pending the appeal's outcome.  Biden appealed that decision in 2021.  That appeal has gone back and forth in the fifth circuit a couple times but is currently set to be heard by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals on 10 Oct.  Presumably whatever happens there it will be appealed to SCOTUS. 

That said, again, there is no way for someone with a current DACA deferral to legally become a citizen.  Best they can get is a green card.

[Hawkmoon]

We also need a constitutional amendment, to make it so that children born in the U.S. to parents who are here illegally are NOT United States citizens.

The problem is, that would require a constitutional convention, and if a constitutional convention the 2A will also be open for "improvement" (or rescission). So the next-best solution is to deport all the illegals. They can decide whether to take their "birthright" offspring with them, or leave them here i foster care (with U.S. citizen foster parents).

[BobR]

We also need a constitutional amendment, to make it so that children born in the U.S. tp parents who are here illegally are NOT United States citizens.

The problem is, that would require a constitutional convention, and if a constitutional convention the 2A will also be open for "improvement" (or rescission). So the next-best solution is to deport all the illegals. They can decide whether to take their "birthright" offspring with them, or leave them here i foster care (with U.S. citizen foster parents).

As I have said several times the whole birthright thing has always irked me. When I was stationed in San Diego (mid 70's) I worked with a guy who owned a house in Imperial Beach. Several times a month he would have to chase out/or call the police on a pregnant illegal trying to give birth in his back yard. They would transport the mom to a hospital nearby, birth the US Citizen and then end up being stuck in the US with their little anchor baby. Just another form of playing the system as it was back then. Now days they are supposed to deport the parent but the baby can stay, I wonder how often that actually happens?

bob

[230RN]

Grampster advised:

"That said, again, there is no way for someone with a current DACA deferral to legally become a citizen.  Best they can get is a green card."

Yes, currently.  But that, and the intent question, could be resolved by Congress, subject to Executive veto.

Nevertheless, it seems to simple little me, it would resolve the whole mess: trash all previous on this particular matter and start over with new Law.  Congress makes little "special interest" laws all the time.

Of course,that depends on a lady Executive who thinks more and rants less.

I stand on my outlook.  Note the underlining.

I shoveled my share of *expletive deleted*it onto the pile, and I guess I'm done here.

Terry, 230RN

[dogmush]

And I reiterate what I said in Reply 28:

Congress has been teasing action on this subject since 2001. If they were going to actually take action, they would have in the last damn near quarter century.

They don't want to.