Calif Bans Single Use Propane Bottles

[Ben]

This somewhat reminds me of the fuel can nozzle thing, except for the greater potential of injury and damage, as according to the reddit thread where I first read it, everybody is going to refill their small containers from five gallon tanks. I guess that's fine if you know what you're doing, but I expect a lot of people are going to wing it.

https://www.npga.org/news-resources/california-bans-non-reusable-propane-cylinders/

[Brad Johnson]

By coincidence, I saw a vid on this over the weekend.

https://fuelkegrefillablepropanetank.com/

Fuel Keg refillable 1 lb propane tank. Pretty slick little system where you can fill the pounders from a garden-variety 20 lb cylinder in a minute or so. At a buck or less per lb for bulk propane versus $5-$7 per prefilled cylinder, it doesn't take long for savings to offset the $50-ish cost of entry. If you use a lot of pound cylinders this could represent significant savings.

Brad

[MechAg94]

Making them refillable makes some sense.  Even if someone does dispose of them, they might be worth retrieving.  Probably better than some sort of bounty for turning them in. 

Force them to make them out of nickel steel so the recyclers will always be hunting them down.   

[Ben]

I'm okay with it if there are idiot-proof refueling methods. Admittedly, I haven't looked at small bottle refueling adaptors for a long time, and the last time I looked, there were a lot of warnings about them. Though that was for stuff like filling your 20# tank from your 500 gallon home tank.

If something like the one in Brad's link is safe for idiots, then I guess that works, though people then still have to invest in a 20# tank even if they just use a little camping cylinder once a year. Or more stores will have to setup small bottle refueling stations that their employees will have to run for liability, same as the ones for 20# cylinders, then who knows how much a refill would cost.

[Brad Johnson]

If something like the one in Brad's link is safe for idiots, then I guess that works, though people then still have to invest in a 20# tank even if they just use a little camping cylinder once a year.

The vid I saw showed it to be dirt-easy for anyone with a half ounce of sense - screw on bulk tank adapter, attach refillable cylinder, open bleed port, press handle. Fill takes about a minute. Add an additional minute if you need to attach the tank supports. Caveats are use only outdoors (propane flammable, duh) and wear heavy gloves (propane cold, duh). Otherwise, surprisingly straightforward.

Not worth it if you only use a couple lbs a year, but break-even is pretty low when you consider single-use containers are $5-$7 a pop.

Brad

[WLJ]

The vid I saw showed it to be dirt-easy for anyone with a half ounce of sense -

There's lies the problem. Only takes a handful of people without a half ounce of sense to screw the works up.

[Ben]

Not worth it if you only use a couple lbs a year, but break-even is pretty low when you consider single-use containers are $5-$7 a pop.

Which I will wager right now is about what stores will charge to fill your bottle. 

[Brad Johnson]

Which I will wager right now is about what stores will charge to fill your bottle. 

Oh, sorry for the confusion. I should have been clearer so my bad.

This isn't a commercial refill system. It's is made specifically for the home user.

Brad

[Ben]

Oh, sorry for the confusion. I should have been clearer so my bad.

This isn't a commercial refill system. It's is made specifically for the home user.

Brad

No, I got that. I meant that if stores in CA offer refill stations for the small cylinders, that will probably be their set price.

[zahc]

I used to refill paintball tanks from bigger co2 tanks. Refilling the little propanes seems like it would work exactly the same. Come to think of it I have a few old 20oz CO2 bottles around... I wonder if the threads are standard...

[Brad Johnson]

I used to refill paintball tanks from bigger co2 tanks. Refilling the little propanes seems like it would work exactly the same. Come to think of it I have a few old 20oz CO2 bottles around... I wonder if the threads are standard...

Not the same. CO2 is a straight gas fill. Connect two tanks and gas moves from high pressure side to low pressure side. Propane is liquid. Unless the tank is designed to be refillable, it takes time and several closely monitored steps to make it work properly (and safely).

Brad

[zxcvbob]

I don't think you can get liquid from a portable propane tank with the new OPD valves.  Used to be, you could turn the tank upside down and draw liquid out to transfer it to another tank.

[zahc]

Not the same. CO2 is a straight gas fill. Connect two tanks and gas moves from high pressure side to low pressure side. Propane is liquid. Unless the tank is designed to be refillable, it takes time and several closely monitored steps to make it work properly (and safely).

Brad

CO2 is also a liquid and filled by weight, just like propane.

[bedlamite]

i've been refilling the Coleman 1lb propane tanks for years. Eventually, the schrader valve starts leaking. A better valve would significantly increase the lifespan.

[Bogie]

I have one of these in my Go Box... I got it about 25 years ago, when I was doing the Knob Creek camp thing twice a year, and running multiple stoves, lanterns, etc...
 
https://www.harborfreight.com/propane-bottle-refill-valve-63607.html

[Declaration Day]

i've been refilling the Coleman 1lb propane tanks for years. Eventually, the schrader valve starts leaking. A better valve would significantly increase the lifespan.

Same here. I get 10-12 fills out of Coleman and Worthington brand cylinders before the valve starts to leak. Other brands, often only 2-3.

[HankB]

Ban includes propane torch tanks? That will go over well with the occasional user.

[Ben]

Ban includes propane torch tanks? That will go over well with the occasional user.

I'm wondering if it's going to include the cylinders for those little backpacking stoves like the MSR pocket rocket, with the propane/isobutane mixes? If it's all about "single use", those fall into the category and I'm pretty sure there are no consumer refill options.

The granola contingent of backpackers went to those stove types in all but extreme conditions to save the environment. I wonder if they'll have to go back to carrying evil white gas?

[JTHunter]

How will a plumber "sweat" some copper pipes without these handheld torches???   

[zxcvbob]

How will a plumber "sweat" some copper pipes without these handheld torches???   

I have a handheld torch that runs off an acetylene tank.  They also make them for propane.  Or the plumbers will buy disposable propane tanks by the case from Nevada or Tijuana (etc.)

[bedlamite]

I'm wondering if it's going to include the cylinders for those little backpacking stoves like the MSR pocket rocket, with the propane/isobutane mixes? If it's all about "single use", those fall into the category and I'm pretty sure there are no consumer refill options.

The granola contingent of backpackers went to those stove types in all but extreme conditions to save the environment. I wonder if they'll have to go back to carrying evil white gas?

https://www.amazon.com/Isobutane-Canister-Pressure-Canister-Backpacking/dp/B09Q1WV881

[Ben]

https://www.amazon.com/Isobutane-Canister-Pressure-Canister-Backpacking/dp/B09Q1WV881

But where do you get the isobutane? The purpose of those isobutane cannisters, AFAIK, is having a working stove when it's below freezing, where propane sucks. I always used an MSR XGK, because I found that propane sucked even before it got to freezing, especially at altitude.

[dogmush]

I have issues with butane and isobutane as soon as it hits the 30's.  I still throw my MSR and a tank of white gas in the overland rig every trip just in case.

That said, if it's warm enough, a Jet Boil is awesome.

[bedlamite]

But where do you get the isobutane?

Start looking at the same place you get bulk propane.

Here's one: https://gasinnovations.com/products/isobutane/

For cold weather, I use a Coleman 533 and premium no ethanol from the pump.

[Boomhauer]

I have issues with butane and isobutane as soon as it hits the 30's.  I still throw my MSR and a tank of white gas in the overland rig every trip just in case.

That said, if it's warm enough, a Jet Boil is awesome.

Well, butane is a bastard gas after all.