Author Topic: Second Amendment/ATF related cases  (Read 9895 times)

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #175 on: January 23, 2025, 10:30:34 PM »
Update to Efforts to abolish/eliminate ATF and Repeal the NFA/Remove suppressor from NFA/Legalize suppressor parts - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462179#msg1462179

Golden, Pflugar introduce bill to protect Americans' right to silence - https://golden.house.gov/media/press-releases/golden-pflugar-introduce-bill-to-protect-americans-right-to-silence

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WASHINGTON — Congressman Jared Golden (ME-02) and August Pfluger introduced the bipartisan Protecting Americans' Right to Silence (PARTS) Act to ensure that the rights' of American gun owners are protected. Specifically, this legislation would amend the statutory definitions of firearm silencers and mufflers to eliminate the potential misinterpretation that could lead to the criminalization of these lawful firearm accessories.

Under current law, the definition of a silencer has caused confusion and concern among both law-abiding citizens and manufacturers alike. The definition needs to be amended and clarified to avoid mistakenly categorizing individual components as silencers themselves, which would lead to the criminalization of these accessories.

“Unclear rules make it harder for responsible gun owners to accurately follow the law,” Congressman Golden said. “That’s an unfair burden for Americans, and it doesn’t make anyone safer. This is necessary work to clarify the ATF’s poorly-written suppressor rule and reaffirm Mainers’ Second Amendment rights.”

“Silencers and mufflers are utilized by our military personnel, law enforcement, and recreational shooters to make using firearms safer,” Congressman  Pfluger said. “Unfortunately, unclear rules have made it easier for ATF to try and criminalize these tools used by law abiding gun owners in America. This bipartisan legislation is critical to clarify these rules to prevent blatant overreach and protect the Second Amendment for Texans and all Americans alike.

Golden and Pfluger's bill is co-sponsored by Ben Cline (VA-06), Michael Rulli (OH-33), Mike Ezell (MS-04), Claudia Tenney (NY-24), Jack Bergman (MI-01), Brian Babin (TX-36), Riley Moore (WV-02), and Mike Collins (GA-10).

Text of this legislation is available here. https://files.constantcontact.com/d6c983c4801/c5a045e4-bcc2-4eb2-b637-4bbfc4f6efe2.pdf?rdr=true

The bill is supported by Silencer Shop, American Suppressor Association, Congressional Sportsman Caucus, and the National Shooting Sports Foundation.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2025, 08:48:55 AM by Live Life »

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #176 on: January 24, 2025, 12:55:12 AM »
For those concerned about permitted carry reciprocity issues, here's permitless constitutional carry bill.

Update to National carry reciprocity - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462532#msg1462532

Rep. Massie Introduces National Constitutional Carry Act to Protect Right to Carry Firearms in All States - https://massie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=395683

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Washington, D.C.- Representative Thomas Massie (R-KY) announces the introduction of H.R. 645, the National Constitutional Carry Act. Massie's constitutional carry legislation will ensure Americans' Second Amendment right to carry firearms in public spaces is protected throughout the country.

"I’m fortunate to live in a state where people are free to exercise their right to keep and bear arms without begging the government or paying a fee," said Rep. Thomas Massie. "Unfortunately, not every American enjoys the same right to carry firearms in public because some states and localities infringe upon this right through a variety of criminal, civil, and regulatory penalties. By prohibiting state or local restrictions on the right to bear arms, H.R. 645 upholds the original purpose of the Second Amendment—to ensure the security of a free state—while safeguarding individual liberties against government infringement."

Massie's legislation is composed of two major provisions. The first provision prohibits any state or political subdivision from imposing criminal or civil penalties on eligible individuals carrying firearms in public. The second provision invalidates any existing state or local laws, statutes, regulations, or local restrictions that criminalize, penalize, or otherwise dissuade the carrying of firearms in public. In addition to covering all fifty states, H.R. 645 includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and other territories of the United States within its scope to ensure that residents of all U.S. jurisdictions enjoy consistent protection of their Second Amendment rights.

Rep. Massie's National Constitutional Carry Act is endorsed by prominent gun rights organizations, including the National Association for Gun Rights (NAGR) and the American Firearms Association (AFA). Representatives of these organizations offer the following statements of support:

“Currently, 29 states have adopted constitutional carry laws, yet contrary to the warnings of gun control advocates, there's no evidence of rampant violence or 'wild west' scenarios. Instead, crime rates either remain stable or show a decline. With numerous states affirming citizens' rights to bear arms without excessive government regulation, it's about time Congress follows suit," said Hunter King, Director of Political Affairs, National Association for Gun Rights.

"For the past 15 years, anti-gun liberals have told everyone that states passing constitutional carry would experience violence like we haven't seen since the 'wild west' days. Twenty-nine states have proven them wrong, all while gun-control strongholds like DC, Chicago, and California have descended into violence and deadly chaos. AFA is proud to support Congressman Massie's efforts post-Bruen to help restore Second Amendment freedom to those across the country currently being deprived by their tyrannical governments," said Patrick Parsons, Executive Vice President, American Firearms Association.

Original cosponsors of the National Constitutional Carry Act include Rep. Andy Biggs (R-AZ), Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO), Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK), Rep. Tim Burchett (R-TN), Rep. Eric Burlison (R-MO), Rep. Ben Cline (R-VA), Rep. Michael Cloud (R-TX), Rep. Mike Collins (R-GA), Rep. Eli Crane (R-AZ), Rep. Brandon Gill (R-TX), Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ), Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA), Rep. Andy Harris (R-MD), Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA), Rep. Nick Langworthy (R-NY), Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (R-FL), Rep. Mary Miller (R-IL), Rep. Barry Moore (R-AL),  Rep. Nathaniel Moran (R-TX), Rep. Andrew Ogles (R-TN), Rep. John Rose (R-TN), Rep. Chip Roy (R-TX), Rep. Keith Self (R-TX), Rep. Victoria Spartz (R-IN), Rep. Claudia Tenney (R-NY), Rep. Tom Tiffany (R-WI), Rep. Randy Weber (R-TX), Rep. Tony Wied (R-WI).

The text of Rep. Massie's legislation is available at this link. https://massie.house.gov/UploadedFiles/National_Constitutional_Carry_2025.pdf
« Last Edit: January 24, 2025, 01:07:38 AM by Live Life »

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #177 on: January 24, 2025, 08:45:42 AM »
Update to Efforts to abolish/eliminate ATF and Repeal the NFA/Remove suppressor from NFA - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462179#msg1462179

Golden, Pflugar introduce bill to protect Americans' right to silence - https://golden.house.gov/media/press-releases/golden-pflugar-introduce-bill-to-protect-americans-right-to-silence

That bill does not remove silencers from the NFA.  It makes wipes and spare baffles legal.

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #178 on: January 24, 2025, 08:49:41 AM »
That bill does not remove silencers from the NFA.  It makes wipes and spare baffles legal.

Revised category heading to add - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462743#msg1462743

"... Legalize suppressor parts"

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #179 on: January 24, 2025, 10:45:19 AM »
Adding to National carry reciprocity - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462752#msg1462752

Rep. Massie Introduces National Constitutional Carry Act to Protect Right to Carry Firearms in All States

Repost from another thread due to topic pertinence - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70439.msg1462799#msg1462799

... Constitutional Carry
I read the actual 6 page bill, and ... I think it’s actually a really good start.

I think so too and bill really gets down to the core issue of being able to exercise right to self-defense under Second Amendment expanded by Supreme Court in Bruen ruling of RKBA outside of home using "modern" magazine fed semi-auto firearm clarified in Heller.

To me, core issue of national constitutional carry is not about state versus federal rather states violating Supreme Court Second Amendment case rulings such as Heller, Caetano, Bruen, Cargill and Soon VanDerStok which the founders framed as the highest court of the land to rule binding laws of the land.

How come people from most other states can carry 15 round magazines ... when I ... am limited to 10?
somebody needs to explain it to me like I'm a 5 year old, because I haven't found it anywhere in the bill in language I understand:

I can, this morning, grab my AR15, drive to Boise, and walk into the State Capitol while the senate is in session and me and my AR can have a seat to watch. No issue. Will I be able to drive to Sacramento and do that?

I do see the value of things like me not being arrested for carrying a non-compliant pistol with a 17 round mag in CA, or driving through the state with a loaded AR in my vehicle.

Valid points and questions.  This is my take.

When it comes to enforcement of Second Amendment, it should be the same as enforcement of First Amendment.   And that's where "We the People" elected representatives come in, to write laws and pass them to enforce rights of "We the People" as we have seen in many new/reintroduced 2A bills recently.

We have national constitutional free speech under the First Amendment that has expanded to "modern" forms of communication like email/texting.  So we are able to exercise free speech of email/text in all states using "modern" communication devices such as cellphones/smartphones/tablets/laptops, etc. and states do not impose any restriction on our First Amendment right as we travel through different states.

But we cannot exercise national constitutional right to keep and bear arm as we travel through different states because some impose restriction on "modern" types of arms and accessories like magazine fed semi-auto firearms?

Why is that?

As justice Thomas stated, this is making Second Amendment "second class right" and making gun owners "second class citizens".  And for too many decades, gun owners in states like CA/NY/NJ have been treated like "second class citizens" and states have made Second Amendment "second class right" and it's time to change that, just as it has been for First Amendment.

"National Constitutional Carry Act" addresses this core issue to allow "We the People" exercise national constitutional carry under the Second Amendment expanded to "modern" types of arms and accessories.  So we are able to exercise RKBA in all states using "modern" types of arms and accessories such as larger than 10 round capacity magazine fed semi-auto firearms and states should not impose any restriction on our Second Amendment right as we travel through different states

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #180 on: January 24, 2025, 10:57:24 AM »
Update to AW/Magazine Ban - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462529#msg1462529

Mark W. Smith - https://x.com/fourboxesdiner/status/1882812554613080221
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2A SCOTUS BREAKING TODAY. Let me make this simple. If we do not get a cert grant by midnight tonight in Snope (AR-15 ban-MD) or Ocean State Tactical (Mag ban-RI), then the odds of SCOTUS hearing one of these cases this term will fall to almost zero.

Kostas Moros - https://x.com/MorosKostas/status/1882814236751184285
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Correct. In order of likelihood if no grant today:

1. Denial with dissent(s)

2. Grant for next term.

3. Per curiam this term.

I don't think a grant for this term is possible if not done today. But SCOTUS can do what it wants so who knows.

Per curiam - "A short majority opinion (4 votes) resolving the petition without arguments. Caetano in 2016 was decided per curiam" - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461712#msg1461712

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #181 on: January 24, 2025, 05:00:01 PM »
Update to AW/Magazine Ban - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462806#msg1462806

Mark Smith - https://x.com/fourboxesdiner/status/1882905822868787425
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BREAKING 2A NEWS JUST NOW: SCOTUS grants cert in multiple cases but not in Snope (AR-15 ban) or Ocean State Tactical (mag ban) 2A cases

SCOTUS FAILS TO ACT ON SNOPE & OCEAN STATE TACTICAL - Mark Smith discuss SCOTUS failing to act on 2A Snope and Ocean State Tactical arms ban cases - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIgn5eVUCc

Kostas Moros - https://x.com/MorosKostas/status/1882910240116781421
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No news on Snope in today's miscellaneous order list which granted cert on likely the last batch of cases which will be heard this term. So on Monday, it and Ocean State Tactical will either be denied, or relisted. Per curiam is also a (remote) possibility.

If Snope is granted for full consideration from this point forward, it seems it will now be heard next term. But, as always, keep in mind SCOTUS can do whatever it wants, including granting a case late and still deciding it that term. Its observed habits and practices are just "guidelines", not hard and fast rules. But given their lack of urgency around Second Amendment issues, I'd be surprised if they did that here.

I hate this dumb tealeaf game from the Court. Just rip the bandaid off and let us know whether you are hanging us and Bruen out to dry or not.

BTW, if you want to drive yourself insane, back in December SCOTUS published multiple orders on the same day, three times.

So keep refreshing and let me know if something happens lmao.

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #182 on: January 24, 2025, 09:27:12 PM »
Adding to Carry ban cases - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462666#msg1462666

CRPA v. Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Dept. (CA non-resident carry permit) - https://michellawyers.com/crpa-inc-et-al-v-los-angeles-county-sheriffs-departme

Ruling - https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/2025-01-22-Order-Entering-Prelim-Injunction.pdf
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"The Court, having reviewed the Proposed Order, accordingly ORDERS, as to Defendant Bonta:

1. Residents of states and US territories besides California, who are:

a. members of the California Rifle & Pistol Association, Incorporated, Gun Owners of America, Inc., Gun Owners of California, Inc., or The Second Amendment Foundation, and;
b. who are not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms under federal or California law, upon proof of such membership, are entitled under this Order to apply for a California concealed handgun license ...

IT IS SO ORDERED"

Second Amendment Foundation - https://x.com/2AFDN/status/1882680332413215031
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SAF Members are now eligible to receive a California non-resident carry permit! This, as the result of today’s order entered by Judge Sherilyn Garnett in the Central District of California. Today’s ruling in CRPA v. Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Dept. grants SAF’s request for a preliminary injunction and states that all members of Second Amendment fall within the scope of the injunction.

Gun Owners of America, Gun Owners Foundation, Gun Owners of California and 2A Allies Secure Win In CA - https://www.gunowners.org/gun-owners-of-america-gun-owners-foundation-gun-owners-of-california-and-2a-allies-secure-win-in-ca/
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Washington, D.C. — Gun Owners of America (GOA), Gun Owners Foundation (GOF), and Gun Owners of California (GOC) joined forces with the California Rifle & Pistol Association and the Second Amendment Foundation to achieve a significant victory. Together, they secured an order implementing a preliminary injunction in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, compelling the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, the La Verne Police Department, and state of California to allow their non-resident members to apply for concealed carry permits.

Erich Pratt, GOA’s Senior Vice President, issued the following statement: 

“Our Constitutionally protected rights are not up for debate—especially not at the whim of overreaching, tyrannical law enforcement agencies. GOA is committed to fighting for our members. We’ve said it before and we will say it again–anti-gun states can fall in line, or we will make you.”   

 Sam Paredes, Executive Director of Gun Owners of California, issued the following statement: 

“California has long boasted the toughest gun laws in the nation, but we’re here to say: enough is enough. We won’t stop until every American can fully and freely exercise their rights. We will ensure Californians and Americans alike will not suffer at the hands of these despots.”
« Last Edit: January 30, 2025, 12:14:02 PM by Live Life »

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #183 on: January 24, 2025, 09:49:19 PM »
Adding to AW/Magazine Ban - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462869#msg1462869

Kostas Moros - https://x.com/MorosKostas/status/1882936614248423807
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If Snope is ultimately denied, we need to line up Second Amendment NFA challenges in the Fifth Circuit and any other favorable circuits. 

Machine guns, SBRs, suppressors, whatever it may be. Need to generate a circuit split on what constitutes a protected "arm" if that is the only way to get SCOTUS to overcome its cowardice and grant review.

Only antigun circuits tend to hear hardware ban cases, so a circuit split is unlikely.

Kostas Moros - https://x.com/MorosKostas/status/1882956857331044684
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Clearly, SCOTUS wants to do the big AWB case next term so it can be decided just before America's 250th birthday party rager in early July 2026.

This is what I will now choose to believe, to preserve my sanity.

(BTW, I am so glad Trump is President for that. Whatever his other flaws, he's a perfect fit for throwing that party)

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #184 on: January 25, 2025, 05:05:20 PM »
Update to AW/Magazine Ban - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462891#msg1462891

Update to Harrel v Raoul (IL AW/magazine ban and affecting cases pertaining to Protect Illinois Communities Act: NAGR v Naperville, Harrel v Raoul, Barnett v Raoul, GOA v Raoul, Herrera v Raoul, Langley v Kelly) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/scotus-considering-bianchi-v-frosh-duncan-v-bonta-the-turning-point-for-aw-magazine-ban.905531/post-13023981

Compared to Snope/Ocean State Tactical/Gray AW/magazine ban cases, Harrel case in particular in that 7th Circuit remanded the case to consider "military use/military grade" and dissenting arguments/opinions along with consideration for Bruen methodology compliance of "Text, history and tradition" with burden shifting to state/government.

In his ruling, judge McGlynn defined the terms and examined how they applied -
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military use” refers to weapons that are selected, procured, tested, and issued to military members for use in combat. (Page 111)

military-grade” ... issued to the military for use in combat. (Page 112)

"dual use" ... the Court holds that “dual use” refers to weapons that, while predominantly useful in military contexts, are also useful for civilian offensive or defensive use in confrontation such that they would be covered by the Second Amendment’s guarantee. (Page 112)​
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... Therefore, the Court holds that “military use” refers to weapons that are selected, procured, tested, and issued to military members for use in combat. With this in mind, none of the weapons, magazines, or attachment prohibited by PICA can be called “military-grade” since they were not issued to the military for use in combat ... a clear example is the semiautomatic handguns that are useful in military service yet are also “the quintessential self-defense weapon.” Clearly, even though handguns are useful and are used in military service, they are clearly protected by the Second Amendment (Page 110-112)

... This Court also holds that thirty-round magazines are not predominately useful in military service and, even if they were, dual use has clearly been demonstrated given their usefulness for individual self-defense and their ubiquity. (Page 113)​​

FPC attorney Anthony Miranda discuss critical Second Amendment Illinois PICA cases set to be decided after the Supreme Court denied emergency review and remanded by the 7th Circuit - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4RxUBMUOGA

- We need to talk about ... critical case ... up for appeal ... challenging the state of Illinois ban on so-called "assault weapons" and also their magazines
- Recently we received a ruling from district court judge McGlynn ... and he struck down the Protect Illinois Communities Act also known as PICA
- Ruling came after the Supreme Court denied emergency review of a bunch of these Illinois rifle and magazine ban cases
- Despite that denial by the Supreme Court, judge McGlynn decided to move them forward to a final merits decision
- He recently issued a decision striking down the PICA law (rifle/magazine ban) ... He struck it down entirely as a violation of the Second Amendment
- Illinois has now appealed that decision in all these cases to the 7th Circuit and once again, the biased 7th Circuit three judge panel decided to grant the state's request to put a stay on that decision
- 7th Circuit also notified judge McGlynn that they believed judge McGlynn's decision was improper that maybe there were errors and they directed him to revise and essentially alter his decision to address some of those issues
- Judge McGlynn has now issued that revised decision and now this case is moving forward at the 7th Circuit Court of Appeal level
- You might remember that originally in multiple of these cases, a district court issued the preliminary injunctions that were requested and essentially those were intended to at least halt the enforcement of PICA before it fully took effect; however, the state of Illinois quickly appealed those preliminary injunctions to the 7th Circuit
- And on review, again the liberal and biased three judge panel in the 7th Circuit overruled the granting of those preliminary injunctions
- Now in coming to those decisions the 7th Circuit concluded that the arms protected by the Second Amendment do not include weapons that may be reserved for military use so they used something known as the military use test, which again in my opinion does not align at all with what the Supreme Court said in Bruen, Rahimi, Heller or any of their precedent that then led all these cases for the first time to seek immediate Supreme Court emergency intervention
- But like I mentioned, Supreme Court at the end of their last term denied emergency review to all of these Illinois cases but also in that denial order, you did have a statement from justice Thomas and he stated that,
Quote
If the Seventh Circuit ultimately allows Illinois to ban America's most common civilian rifle, we can and should review that decision once the case reach a final judgment. The court must not permit the Seventh Circuit to relegate the Second Amendment to a second class right
- So although Supreme Court denied emergency review to these cases, justice Thomas did make a statement and he stated that there was an interest in this type of case if it reaches a final merits decision
- While those preliminary injunction appeals and the emergency Supreme Court cert was going on the lower court judge McGlynn was moving these cases to a final judgment
- Recently there were oral arguments that were held in this case and then a decision came from judge McGlynn and once again, he found that PICA is unconstitutional
- It's unconstitutional under Bruen, it's still unconstitutional under the 7th Circuit precedent and therefore he struck down PICA in its entirety
- However in that decision, he did decide to temporarily stay the enforcement of his order for 30 days so the state of Illinois could appeal to the 7th Circuit and then also seek a more permanent stay from the 7th Circuit if they wanted to
- Of course, Illinois did appeal to the 7th Circuit and they also requested a stay from the 7th Circuit ... They wanted to halt the entire enforcement of that ruling by judge McGlynn ... Essentially they wanted to still be able to enforce PICA
- In their motion, the state of Illinois argues that the district court for the second time in 2 years entered an injunction prohibiting the enforcement of Illinois statute on a statewide basis, the court's decision is badly flawed and the injunction should be stayed pending appeal.  The opinion below fails to faithfully apply this court's decision in Bevis, it cannot be squared with Supreme Court's precedent or the uniform decisions of the court of appeals applying such precedent and it would threaten public safety by permitting military grade weapons to proliferate again in Illinois
- So the state of Illinois' primary argument is that judge McGlynn misapplied Bruen and the 7th Circuit decision in Bevis and also it would be such a public risk to have these types of weapons on the streets
- Now one of the interesting things with this appeal and request for stay is that the state of Illinois maintains a very hardline approach with these rifles and magazines saying that they are not arms at all and therefore they're not protected at all by the text of the Second Amendment
- That's also despite the fact that they still acknowledge also in all of the briefs that these types of firearms and these magazines are owned in the millions by law abiding people not just in the state of Illinois but all over the US so they're clearly in common use but still the state is arguing that they're not protected arms
- On review, 7th Circuit panel agreed with the state of Illinois [of course  =D] and decided to grant a stay on judge McGlynn ruling
- Also important was the development that the 7th Circuit believed that judge McGlynn's decision was actually deficient that there were errors, that it was not expressed clear on the type of relief it was granting or who the judgment was in favor of and maybe what defendants were barred or enjoined from doing certain things
- So the 7th Circuit was saying that judge McGlynn, we believe your decision is deficient. We want you to revise it to change it into enter a new decision
- In the 7th Circuit's order granting the stay, the court also not only blocked the ruling but they also directed judge McGlynn to revise his prior decision
- In the order 7th Circuit stated that defendant's request for a stay rest largely on the fact that this court already has held that the laws in question survive motions seeking preliminary injunctions ... a decision at the preliminary injunction stage is not dispositive [determining the outcome of a case] when the plaintiff seek later permanent relief
- Our opinion indicated some matters that needed further exploration but the analysis in Bevis shows that the laws have enough support to remain in place pending the final resolution of plaintiff suit
- Every other court of appeals that has addressed the validity of similar legislation in the wake of Bruen has come to the same way in the same conclusion as Bevis
- So the 7th Circuit found that since they prior had ruled and upheld this type of restriction in the state of Illinois and since other circuit courts have upheld similar rifle/magazine bans, the state ban here should remain in effect until the 7th Circuit appeal is result
- They also told judge McGlynn that his prior decision was deficient and they expected him to essentially revise it
- Now we just got that revised decision from judge McGlynn so he heeded the 7th Circuit's warning, I guess, and decided to clarify his decision even though I think it was pretty clear before
- But it seems like the 7th Circuit was being nitpicky and wanted him to change his decision
- In the revised decision, he stated that, "This court holds that Protect Illinois Community Act is unconstitutional in accordance with the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution as applied to the states by the 14th Amendment of fact and conclusions of law and that the permanent injunction is required to protect the right rights of citizens of Illinois"
- He then granted a declaratory judgment and permanent injunction in favor of the plaintiffs and then all the other organizations and parties that were attached to each of those cases
- He then entered a decision enjoining the state defendants from enforcing the PICA laws expressly against those various plaintiffs

- So he just had to go through one by one list directly that of course this law is blocked that PICA is unconstitutional and that the defendants here are expressly prevented from enforcing those laws against the defendant
- Now, really does that matter that much the 7th Circuit was for some reason being super nitpicky and was trying to find some sort of deficiency what the lower court decision
- In reality, this is still out of the hands of the lower court.  It is now moved to the 7th Circuit
- You know court's hands and now they have issued the stay on that lower court decision and they have full control of this case
- Some think that the best option now is for the plaintiffs to then seek or maybe want an emergency review from the Supreme Court to remove this stay but right now I think that would just be denied
- I think the best strategy as of right now would be to try to move this case as fast as possible through the 7th Circuit process through the three judge panel, maybe even try to bypass the En Banc and go directly to the Supreme Court because we all know how the 7th Circuit is going to rule on this case
- Also keep in mind there is still hope for the Supreme Court to maybe grant review to a similar rifle ban case the Snope case out of Maryland that is a final merits case dealing also with the military use test coming out of 4th Circuit En Banc panel ruling that is currently seeking Supreme Court review
- The Hope really is that Supreme Court will finally take up a critical rifle ban case this term and of course if they do and rule on that, that would impact the 7th Circuit cases here
- It would impact the state of Illinois's ban, California's ban on rifles, New York's ban, any state that has a rifle ban it would directly impact that
« Last Edit: January 26, 2025, 07:49:47 AM by Live Life »

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #185 on: January 25, 2025, 09:40:41 PM »
Update to Carry ban cases - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462890#msg1462890

Adding to May v Bonta (CA sensitive places carry ban) update - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462666#msg1462666
Quote from: Kostas Moros
Mandate issued in May v. Bonta. CRPA or Chuck will explain soon why we ultimately decided against pursuing cert. (Short answer - faster final judgment).

CRPA President Chuck Michel discuss 9th Circuit denying En Banc for May v. Bonta - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5b3Gm-Pm4
Quote
00:00 - Intro - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5b3Gm-Pm4&t=0s
02:10 - Evolution of Second Amendment Law - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5b3Gm-Pm4&t=130s
07:46 - May v. Bonta - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5b3Gm-Pm4&t=466s
15:44 - Here at Shot Show - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5b3Gm-Pm4&t=944s
17:54 - Final thoughts and going forward - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5b3Gm-Pm4&t=1074s

CRPA: May v. Bonta Strategy Update - https://crpa.org/news/blogs/breaking-may-v-bonta-strategy-update/
Quote
CRPA’s challenge to the state’s conceal carry laws was denied in our en banc petition. This request for en bac review would have overturned a lower court ruling on a preliminary injunction and would have stopped enforcement of the restrictive state law. With the Ninth Circuit denial of our request, CRPA had though decisions to make. After further consideration of the ruling in May v. Bonta, the best course of action is to pursue a final judgment in the lower court rather than take an interlocutory appeal on the injunction ruling to the Supreme Court. Given the low odds of success of such appeals when there is no circuit split and no final judgment in the case, we do not want to drag the case out and instead want to push forward to a final determination in the trial court that gives us better petition on appeal.

In an interview at SHOT Show, CRPA President Chuck Michel addressed the latest in the case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5b3Gm-Pm4

We will still file amicus briefs in the Supreme Court in support of any case dealing with sensitive places, such as the Wolford matter if the Hawaii plaintiffs seek cert. However, we think it is in the best interests of permanently resolving these issues to reach a final judgment quickly, in case the Supreme Court once again decides to wait for final judgment appeals.

Unfortunately, this does mean that some places will soon be off-limits for carry in California while our lawsuit proceeds. The biggest change to the status quo is that parks, places that serve alcohol, and libraries will now be off limits, in addition to some other places like casinos, stadiums, museums, and amusement parks (though such places often banned carry themselves anyway). The full list of places one CAN still carry legally after the mandate issues and while we continue to fight in the court includes:

“(7) A building, real property, and parking area under the control of a public or private hospital or hospital affiliate, mental health facility, nursing home, medical office, urgent care facility, or other place at which medical services are customarily provided.

(8) A bus, train, or other form of transportation paid for in whole or in part with public funds, and a building, real property, or parking area under the control of a transportation authority supported in whole or in part with public funds.

(10) A public gathering or special event conducted on property open to the public that requires the issuance of a permit from a federal, state, or local government and sidewalk or street immediately adjacent to the public gathering or special event but is not more than 1,000 feet from the event or gathering, provided this prohibition shall not apply to a licensee who must walk through a public gathering in order to access their residence, place of business, or vehicle.

(22) A church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship, including in any parking area immediately adjacent thereto, unless the operator of the place of worship clearly and conspicuously posts a sign at the entrance of the building or on the premises indicating that licenseholders are permitted to carry firearms on the property. Signs shall be of a uniform design as prescribed by the Department of Justice and shall be at least four inches by six inches in size.

(23) A financial institution or parking area under the control of a financial institution.

(26) Any other privately owned commercial establishment that is open to the public, unless the operator of the establishment clearly and conspicuously posts a sign at the entrance of the building or on the premises indicating that licenseholders are permitted to carry firearms on the property. Signs shall be of a uniform design as prescribed by the Department of Justice and shall be at least four inches by six inches in size.”

However, despite the very tough panel we were assigned, the Ninth Circuit did uphold several portions of our district court win, including places where conceal carry will still be allowed such as public transportation, churches, banks, hospitals, public gatherings, the private property default, and the parking lots serving those places. As the ruling makes clear, shared parking lots are also fine. For example, if you are visiting a bank that shares a parking lot with a bar, you can carry in the parking lot as long as you don’t go into the bar.

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #186 on: January 26, 2025, 09:52:09 AM »
Update to Carry ban cases - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1463046#msg1463046

Update to States defying Bruen in Antonyuk v. Nigrelli now James (NY CCIA defiance to Bruen ruling), Hardaway v. Nigrelli (NY places of worship carry ban), Christian v. Nigrelli (NY sensitive location carry ban), Spencer v Nigrelli (NY places of worship carry ban) - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1459189#msg1459189

Quote from: Anthony Miranda
... this is eventually going to make its way back to Supreme Court ... all signals is that this Antonyuk case is heading back to Supreme Court ... the plaintiffs have until January 22nd to file their Writ of Cert and I think this is now going to be one of those cases that's almost unavoidable by the Supreme Court because it's been GVR'd multiple times by the Supreme Court

- There have been multiple emergency applications and this is a law that was passed in direct defiance to what was said in Bruen where the state of New York decided they're going to pass an even more restrictive concealed carry ban so this is of course one of those very important cases that's not only going to impact the state of New York but other states that have also similar concealed carry bans and we're going to be waiting anxiously to see what develops at the Supreme Court level

And Supreme Court, here we come ... Again. =D

FPC attorney Anthony Miranda break down the impacts of the Supreme Court's recent decision and remand order on carry bans - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFSXJr5R2Vw

- The issue of New York's new concealed carry ban and their defiance to Bruen is once again in front of the Supreme Court
- Supreme Court granted, vacated and remanded the Antonyuk case ... and they sent that case back down to the 2nd Circuit for a new decision in light of Rahimi
- Antonyuk case challenges NY's CCIA that was passed just 8 days after the Supreme Court's Bruen ruling
- The 2nd Circuit issued their new decision in light of Rahimi and essentially they just reissued the same decision finding that Rahimi did not actually impact the outcome of the case at all
- Plaintiffs have now decided once again to seek Supreme Court review in the hopes that New York's new concealed carry ban and the defiance of the Bruen decision can be struck down and stopped once and for all
- This issue of concealed carry bans in New York ... should have ended after Bruen
- In Bruen, Supreme Court struck down New York's original "May issue" CCW licensing scheme finding that it was inconsistent with this nation's history and tradition
- However despite that, New York rushed through the Concealed Carry Improvement Act (CCIA) just 8 days after the Bruen ruling
- This new law was done in direct defiance to Bruen
- CCIA was challenged in multiple cases and in those lawsuits, preliminary injunctions were granted halting some aspects of the CCIA
- However, New York then appealed those decisions up to the 2nd Circuit who then granted blanket stays on all these rulings
- In response, GOA for the first time decided to go to Supreme Court on an emergency basis seeking emergency review
- Supreme Court ... denied relief but the order of the Court did say that 2nd Circuit could not simply drag their feet and issue blanket stays ... They would need to expedite hearing in these cases and that's exactly what happened recently
- The 2nd Circuit ruled in five CCIA cases and the big argument in Antonyuk case ... led by GOA ... challenge ... the process to get the permit ... sensitive location bans
- The 2nd Circuit ultimately vacated some of district court's injunctions against the enforcement of CCIA
- In their decision, 2nd Circuit distinguished Bruen as an exceptional case; therefore, the 2nd Circuit vacated a lot of the district courts injunctions and ruled in favor New York
- In response to that 2nd Circuit ruling, GOA then filed a second petition for emergency Supreme Court intervention
- Although this case was still an interlocutory posture, the Supreme Court did actually grant a GVR which is grant, vacate and remand of this Antonyuk case back down to the 2nd Circuit for a new decision in light of what they said in Rahimi
- When the case was remanded, 2nd Circuit was intending to have a ton of consolidated CCIA cases reopened and then reargued and decided
- However, they decided to only move forward with the Antonyuk case because in their opinion, that was the only case that was GVR'd in light of Rahimi
- After they heard oral arguments and new briefs, they decided to rule and once again they upheld their prior decision
- They essentially ruled the same way and found that Rahimi ruling did not change the outcome of their case at all
- In the decision, the 2nd Circuit stated, "Having reconsidered the prior decision in light of Rahimi and ... supplemental briefing regarding the effect of that decision on our reasoning in this case, we now issue a revised opinion in Antonyuk. We reached the same conclusion that we reached in our prior consolidated opinion.
- So in reality, nothing really changed with the 2nd Circuit's new 246 page opinion
- It was, of course remanded to them in light of Rahimi for a new decision but ultimately they found that it came out the same way
- Now there was something else in this opinion which was different and actually very important ... What ended up happening is the 2nd Circuit disagreed with the 9th Circuit's recent decision on a similar issue of concealed carry ban
- They disagreed with the 9th Circuit's ruling in the Wolford case which deals with Hawaii's concealed carry decision.  You might remember that in the Wolford case, the 9th Circuit found that the public carry ban in Hawaii was permissible because the state of Hawaii in their statute had various reasons and ways that you could actually receive notice that carry on private property was allowed
- The state said that there could be a sign posted the business owner could actually verbally tell everyone that carry was okay at that location
- But in the Antoyuk case, the 2nd Circuit disagreed with that analysis performed by the 9th Circuit and the 2nd Circuit found that an outright carry ban is a violation of the Second Amendment
- That was very important and it's a good thing because you have a circuit split at least on a little issue
- A very important issue but a critical aspect of the CCIA and then other carry bans that are in place in other states which are being passed in direct response to Bruen and essentially trying to have these blanket carry bans on private property
- As a result of this new 2nd Circuit decision, Antonyuk case is heading back to the Supreme Court and on January 22nd, the plaintiffs filed for Supreme Court review ... They filed the Writ of Cert and they notified the lower court that they will be seeking a reversal of what the 2nd Circuit said
- Antonyuk case is one which the Supreme Court is very familiar with.  It's a case that they recently granted, vacated and remanded for re-review in light of Rahimi
- They wanted the 2nd Circuit to modify their decision, maybe correct some errors in light of Rahimi ... but ultimately 2nd Circuit just issued the same decision and found that Rahimi did not change the outcome of the case at all
and as a result of that, this case is now back in front of the Supreme Court
- So now a concealed carry ban case is back in the hands of Supreme Court.  it's a case that deals with a law passed in direct defiance of Bruen
- You know, New York was the first one to pass this type of concealed carry ban and then you had other states like California and Hawaii do similar things and currently there's a ton of litigation in those cases as well which are moving their way through the process at the 9th Circuit level and this case here could correct a lot of that

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #187 on: January 26, 2025, 10:00:22 AM »
Updated listing of 2A/ATF related cases - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461505#msg1461505

- 2A - Pro-2A organizations efforts and accomplishments - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462357#msg1462357
- 2A - AW/Magazine ban - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462891#msg1462891
- 2A - National carry reciprocity - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462803#msg1462803
- 2A - Carry ban cases - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1463075#msg1463075
- 2A - Significance of Bruen Methodology tested in Rahimi case (Harvard/Georgetown Journal of Law & Public Policy) - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1458590#msg1458590
- 2A - Bruen methodology applied to other cases - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1459075#msg1459075
- 2A - States defying Bruen - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1463075#msg1463075
- 2A - Gazzola v Hochul (NY CCIA affecting ammunition/FFLs/gun shops) - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1458404#msg1458404
- 2A - Rahimi/Range (violent/nonviolent felon RKBA), OH/PA state cases and Drug user RKBA - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462359#msg1462359
- 2A - Handgun Roster - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462252#msg1462252
- 2A - CA Handgun Roster (Pistols added after preliminary injunctions) - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461226#msg1461226
- 2A - Ammunition Restriction and Importation of arms/ammo - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461397#msg1461397
- 2A - Post Office Carry - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/fpc-saf-file-post-office-gun-ban-lawsuit.931523/
- 2A - B&L Productions v Newsom (CA gun show on state property) pending Supreme Court conference 1/24/25 - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1460871#msg1460871
- 2A - Elite Precision v ATF for tracking (Federal handgun transfer ban) - New FPC lawsuit challenging federal ban on interstate handgun sales - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462252#msg1462252
- ATF - Bump Stock - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1458134#msg1458134
- ATF - Pistol Brace - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461341#msg1461341
- ATF - 80% frame or receiver / "ghost gun" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/17-states-join-goa-gof-and-sue-atf%E2%80%99s-new-firearms-rule-on-80-percent-kits.908730/post-12995558
- ATF - Forced Reset Trigger - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461595#msg1461595
- ATF - Efforts to abolish ATF/Repeal NFA/Hearing Protection Act/Legalize suppressor parts - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462743#msg1462743

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #188 on: January 26, 2025, 01:20:12 PM »
Update to CA Handgun Roster due to Boland v Bonta (CA handgun roster) and Renna v Bonta (CA Unsafe Handgun Act/Handgun roster) - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462252#msg1462252

Recently Added Handgun Models (115 added since Boland 3/20/23 and Renna 4/3/23 v Bonta preliminary injunctions) 👍 - https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/certified-handguns/recently-added

Quote
An asterisk (*) next to the model name below indicates that the handgun was added pursuant to the court's order in Boland v. Bonta.

Manufacturer   Model   Caliber   Gun Type      Date Added

Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9L- BLACK (HG7884CA-N)*   9MM   Pistol   3.2"   01/23/2025
Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9-SLIDE BLACK FRAME FDE (HG7651CABD-N)*   9MM   Pistol   3.2"   01/23/2025
Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9-FDE (HG7651CAD-N)*   9MM   Pistol   3.2"   01/23/2025
Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9LS- BLACK (HG7885CA-N)*   9MM   Pistol   3.6"   01/23/2025
Shadow Systems   MR920 SS-1052-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/22/2025
Shadow Systems   XR920 SS-3052-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/22/2025
Heckler & Koch   VP9 Match*   9MM   Pistol   5.51"   01/22/2025
Shadow Systems   XR920 SS-3040-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/22/2025
Shadow Systems   DR920P SS-2240-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4.5"   01/22/2025
Shadow Systems   MR920 SS-1040-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/22/2025
Girsan/EAA   MC P35 CAL LIBERADOR*   9MM   Pistol   4.87"   01/14/2025
Shadow Systems   XR920 SS-3039-CA*   9MM   Pistol   3.75"   01/01/2025
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield Plus (Purple Frame)-14299*   9MM   Pistol   3.1"   01/01/2025
Rost Martin   RM1C FDE OSP*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/01/2025
Colt   PYTHON (PYTHON-BP6WTS)   .357 Magnum   Revolver   6"   01/01/2025
Rost Martin   RM1C GRAY OSP*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/01/2025
Henry Repeating Arm   H016GD   .22 S/L/LR   Revolver   4"   01/01/2025
Shadow Systems   DR920P SS-2239-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4.5"   01/01/2025
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield Plus (Pink Slide)-14298*   9MM   Pistol   3.1"   01/01/2025
Shadow Systems   MR920 SS-1039-CA*   9MM   Pistol   3.75"   01/01/2025
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield Plus (SLV/REB)-14297*   9MM   Pistol   3.1"   01/01/2025
Colt   PYTHON (PYTHON-BP4WTS)   .357 Magnum   Revolver   4.25"   01/01/2025
Rost Martin   RM1C BLACK OSP*   9MM   Pistol   4"   12/04/2024
FMK Firearms   9C1 G3 (Black)*   9MM   Pistol   4"   12/03/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   LCP MAX 13748*   380 Auto   Pistol   2.80"   11/26/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9 UPC 642230267961*   9mm   Pistol   4.09"   11/20/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9 UPC 642230267947*   9mm   Pistol   4.09"   11/20/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9L UPC 642230267985*   9mm   Pistol   5"   11/20/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9SK UPC 642230268005*   9mm   Pistol   3.39"   11/20/2024
Sig Sauer   365XL-9-ROSE-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.1"   10/30/2024
Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9*   9mm   Pistol   3.2"   10/08/2024
North American Arms   NAA-PUG-D   .22 Mag   Revolver   1"   08/13/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   LCRx-05439B   .22 WMRF   Revolver   1.87"   07/17/2024
Smith & Wesson   SD9 VE-11907*   9mm   Pistol   4"   07/16/2024
Kimber   RAPIDE (DAWN)(9MM)*   9mm   Pistol   5"   07/03/2024
Kimber   RAPIDE (DAWN)(45ACP)*   .45 ACP   Pistol   5"   07/03/2024
Kimber   CUSTOM LW (SHADOW GHOST)(9MM)*   9mm   Pistol   5"   07/03/2024
Kimber   CUSTOM LW (SHADOW GHOST)(45ACP)*   .45 ACP   Pistol   5"   07/03/2024
Smith & Wesson   SW22 VICTORY SKU 108490*   .22 LR   Pistol   5.5"   06/12/2024
Springfield Armory   Hellcat-Stainless HC9319SOSPCA*   9mm   Pistol   3"   06/11/2024
Springfield Armory   Hellcat Pro- Stainless HCP9379SOSPCA*   9mm   Pistol   3.7"   06/11/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SP101-05765A   .22 LR   Revolver   4.2"   05/21/2024
Sig Sauer   320XF-9-BXR3P-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   4.7"   05/16/2024
Sig Sauer   320X5-9-LEGION-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   5"   05/16/2024
Sig Sauer   365XCA-9-COMP-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.1"   05/16/2024
Kahr Arms   CW90G93/CW90G93N   9mm   Pistol   3.5"   05/07/2024
Standard Manufacturing Co.   S333 THUNDERSTRUCK GEN III   .22 WMR   Revolver   2.25"   05/07/2024
Springfield Armory   XD-M Elite Compact 3.8 OSP-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.8"   04/03/2024
Springfield Armory   XD-M Elite 4.5 OSP-CA*   9mm   Pistol   4.5"   04/03/2024
Springfield Armory   XD-M Elite 3.8 OSP-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.8"   04/03/2024
Girsan (Imported by European American Armory Corporation)   MC P35*   9mm   Pistol   4.87"   04/02/2024
Walther   P22 CA (Grey Slide) Grey Grip   .22 LR   Pistol   3.42"   03/08/2024
Browning   Buck Mark Medallion Rosewood*   .22 LR   Pistol   5.5"   03/05/2024
Browning   Buck Mark Micro Bull*   .22 LR   Pistol   4"   03/05/2024
Taurus   2-85621ULC31NS   .38 Special   Revolver   2"   02/22/2024
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield (OD) SKU 14016/Stainless Steel;Polymer   9mm   Pistol   3"   02/09/2024
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield (OD) SKU 14015/Stainless Steel;Polymer   9mm   Pistol   3"   02/09/2024
Colt   PYTHON (PYTHON-SP5WTS)   .357 Mag   Revolver   5"   02/06/2024
Colt   PYTHON (PYTHON-SP2WCTS)   .357 Mag   Revolver   2.5"   02/06/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9*   9mm   Pistol   4.09"   01/31/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9L OR*   9mm   Pistol   5"   01/31/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9 OR*   9mm   Pistol   4.09"   01/31/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9SK OR*   9mm   Pistol   3.39"   01/31/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   LCRX-05437B   .22 WMRF   Revolver   3"   01/11/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SP101-05773A   .327 Fed Magnum   Revolver   4.2"   01/11/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SUPER REDHAWK - 05526   .22 Hornet   Revolver   9.5"   01/11/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   MARK IV - 40187   22 LR   Pistol   5.5"   01/04/2024
Taurus   2-856P39   .38 Special   Revolver   3"   01/04/2024
Taurus   2-605P39   .357 Mag   Revolver   3"   01/04/2024
Henry Repeating Arm   H017BDM   .38 Spl/.357 Mag   Revolver   4"   01/04/2024
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 M2.0 - 14033*   9mm   Pistol   4.25"   11/16/2023
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 M2.0 Compact - 14032*   9mm   Pistol   4"   11/16/2023
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield Plus - 14031*   9mm   Pistol   3.1"   11/16/2023
Springfield Armory   XDM Elite*   9mm   Pistol   4.5"   11/16/2023
Springfield Armory   Hellcat Pro*   9mm   Pistol   3.7"   11/16/2023
Springfield Armory   Hellcat*   9mm   Pistol   3"   11/16/2023
Colt   ANACONDA (ANACONDA-SP4RTS)   44 Magnum   Revolver   4.25"   11/16/2023
Kimber   K6XS Carry   .38 Special +P   Revolver   2"   11/16/2023
Sig Sauer   365-9-BXR3P-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.1"   11/02/2023
Henry Repeating Arm   H017GDM   .38Spl/.357Mag   Revolver   4"   09/19/2023
Charter 2000   14423 Bulldog (Grip Rose wood)   .44 Special   Revolver   4"   09/19/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DFDE   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (OD Green)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-OD   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (OD Green)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Dark Grey)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DBB   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (FDE)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DAF   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Burnt Bronze)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Blue Jay)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DRD   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (FDE)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DTAF   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Pink/Raspberry)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-SG   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Burnt Bronze)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Blue Jay)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-FDEC   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Pink/Raspberry)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-BB   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Dark Grey)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Titianium Grey)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-GRC   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Black)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-FDE   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Black)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Titanium Grey)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   Max-9 03518*   9mm   Pistol   3.2"   08/03/2023
Armscor Precision   M1911 A1 FS PSA Standard (AS) (57007)   .45 ACP   Pistol   5"   08/01/2023
Sig Sauer   320CA-9-M18-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.9"   07/13/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - GRN/Tungsten   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - FDE/Tungsten   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - Tungsten   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - Cobalt   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - RAL8000   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SP101, 05784A   327   Revolver   3"   06/29/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   LCP II 13747*   .22 LR   Pistol   2.75"   06/14/2023
Colt   ANACONDA (ANACONDA-SP8RTS)   .44 Magnum   Revolver   8"   06/13/2023
Colt   ANACONDA (ANACONDA-SP6RTS   .44 Magnum   Revolver   6"   06/13/2023
Smith & Wesson   SKU13331   350 Legend   Revolver   7.5"   05/30/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   MARK IV-40183*   .22 LR   Pistol   5.5"   05/24/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SR22P-03657*   .22 LR   Pistol   3.5"   05/24/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   05/18/2023

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #189 on: January 27, 2025, 10:35:34 AM »
How Trump can affect ATF and pistol brace rule. 👍👍👍 [popcorn]

Update to ATF - Pistol Brace - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461341#msg1461341

Permanent Nationwide Block of Short Barreled Rifle & Pistol Brace Rule Moves Forward - FPC attorney Anthony Miranda discuss the current nationwide brace injunction and important updates on what happens now - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEzoDrjIAxc

- ATF tried to outright defy the nationwide vacature of the pistol brace Rule and they claimed that they could still treat braced pistols as SBRs
- But now the Trump administration is taking back control
- Some important news about the battle against the ATF and their current restrictions on braced pistols as SBR even though there's currently a nationwide vacature on the pistol brace Rule
- Multiple preliminary injunctions which are protecting various 2A organizations and their memberships
- We had reports that there were employees of the ATF that were still making statements that they could in fact still enforce the interpretation of braced pistols as SBRs
- Their position was that under the pure statutory text of the NFA, they could treat brace pistols as SBRs
- GOA actually pressed ATF on that position and ATF responded and in some ways, walked back those prior statements
- Currently there are major pistol brace lawsuits going on.  Most important is the Mock versus Garland which is pending in front of the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals and currently we are waiting for oral arguments in that lawsuit
- However, now with the Trump administration back in charge, in control of the ATF, multiple options that his administration could actually deploy that would not only impact this lawsuit, Mock versus Garland, but all the other lawsuits ... could overall significantly change fight against the ATF and ATF's current overreach
- You may recall that ATF recently decided to roll the dice and appeal multiple pistol brace cases up to the 5th Circuit ... Those appeals came in multiple cases, Mock versus Garland case, Britto versus Garland case and then a ton of other consolidated lawsuits
- A bunch of those lawsuits were appeals of preliminary injunctions that were issued by district courts out of federal courts in Texas
- While those preliminary injunction reviews were pending in the 5th Circuit, you had judge Reed O'Connor who then issued a final merits decision in the Mock lawsuit and he struck down the pistol brace Rule entirely nationwide ... a final merits decision ... the most significant decision we've received on pistol brace issue
- In his decision, judge O'Connor stated ... the final Rule was not a logical outgrowth from the proposed Rule; therefore, the final Rule must be set aside as unlawful or otherwise remain for appropriate remediation
- That decision was huge because it was a final merit's decision and that's what's currently protecting
everyone in possession of braced pistols
- Of course in response, ATF decided to appeal up to the 5th Circuit
- 5th Circuit then decided to moot and essentially hold all of the other consolidated preliminary injunction cases and kind of sent them back down because the Mock case was more important
- So 5th Circuit decided to focus their entire attention on that Mock case
- Currently all the briefs have been submitted in the Mock case and we're currently waiting for oral arguments to take place at the 5th Circuit
- There were some very interesting developments from recent GOA interactions with ATF where they
seem to take the position that despite the Rule currently being blocked, the ATF believed that they could potentially still enforce their pistol brace Rule purely under the statutory text of the NFA and GCA
- But now that is going to change because the Trump administration is back in charge and there are plenty of options Trump administration has to cure this issue so let's talk about some of those options - Trump administration could simply just rescind or potentially modify that ATF Rule when it comes to pistol braces
- First option ... Trump administration can direct the ATF to actually withdraw or amend their existing Rule on pistol braces ... This could potentially involve something kind of a longer process of initiating a new rule making process, including a public comment period and potentially reverse or alter the current regulations ... So that is a longer process but that would be more permanent and it would be a clear statement that no braced pistols are in fact SBRs and would set a stronger precedent going forward
- Second one of the options ... Trump administration could simply cease to actually defend any of the ongoing litigation on the pistol brace issue ... His administration may just choose to stop defending the pistol brace Rule or tell the courts that no, they're no longer of the position, the ATF position, no longer is that they want to defend these lawsuits ... That they agree with the courts that have multiple times in preliminary injunction reviews and final merits decisions found that this Rule is invalid
- They could say that yeah, we agree ... We're no longer going to defend these lawsuits and then that could lead to a ruling by these courts that would invalidate the entire Rule and set a stronger precedent going forward to where you would not have administration down the road that could try to pass a similar Rule because then you would have strong precedent sitting in circuit courts like the 5th Circuit and the 8th Circuit actually saying that these types of brace pistol rules are invalid
- The third option is Trump administration could simply issue new guidance ... We've seen ATF issue guidance and guidance letters multiple times on not just the pistol brace issue but other issues as well ... ATF could release new guidance clarifying that stabilizing braces do not convert pistols into SBRs, effectively nullifying their previous rules and the impacts of that Rule ... The issue with this option ... is ... we've seen guidance letters and guidance in general by the ATF kind of been thrown aside, you know when ATF wants to do something new
- With a new administration, often times we've seen guidance and guidance letters kind of get thrown aside and they just do whatever they want ... For example with this very issue of the pistol braces ... we had prior guidance letters by ATF saying that pistol braces do not make something into an SBR but then ATF just changed all that ... said in their actual final Rule ... all those prior guidance letters are no longer valid and you only look at the new Rule
- So guidance letters could be something good or a new guidance could be something good but it's not something very concrete
- I like one of the other options because I think those would be a little bit more concrete and would have more effect on this issue going forward
- All those options that I mentioned would directly impact these current lawsuits against the pistol braces Rule

- If the Rule is rescinded or amended, ongoing lawsuits challenging the Rule may actually become moot leading to the dismissal of those lawsuits
- Same thing with guidance ... ATF put out a guidance letter or just general guidance on this issue
saying no we no longer have the position that brace pistols can make something into an SBR, then there would be clearly a mooting of those lawsuits and they would get dismissed as well
- With a new rule, there could be an interesting turn of events where the Trump ATF created a new rule saying that pistol braces cannot make something into a SBR and that could actually lead to ... where there would be litigation ... Maybe by an anti-gun group like Everytown that would then sue the ATF over that new rule and then Trump administration, the Trump ATF actually defending the now pro 2A pistol brace interpretation in the courts against an anti-gun group who did not like the new pistol brace rule or guidance
- That would be a very interesting turn of events where younwould have the ATF actually defending  the Second Amendment and pro 2A positions going forward
- The other option like I mentioned is the Trump administration could simply say that they're no longer going to defend ATF's prior position in these lawsuits and ... ceasing to defend that Rule would result in court striking down these rules setting legal precedent in the 5th Circuit, 8th Circuit and all the other cases that are currently developing on this issue
- So with Trump administration now taking over, there are going to be some very interesting options going forward

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #190 on: January 27, 2025, 10:47:38 AM »
I have seen no indication that the Pistol Brace rule is even on Trump's RADAR as something to intervene on, have you?


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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #191 on: January 27, 2025, 11:05:22 AM »
I have seen no indication that the Pistol Brace rule is even on Trump's RADAR as something to intervene on, have you?

With NAGR board chairman/chief legal counsel David Warrington appointed to serve as White House Counsel and Assistant to President Trump overseeing over 30 attorneys, I am quite certain what NAGR aimed to work on with 119th Congress will have President Trump's ear - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461878#msg1461878

These are NAGR's agenda for 2025 which includes, "Rescind the ATF’s bans on ... pistol braces" - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461806#msg1461806
Quote
- Pass National Constitutional Carry

- Pass the SHUSH Act to Deregulate Suppressors - The “Silencers Help Us Save Hearing Act” (S.4825, 118th Cong.) proposes to deregulate suppressors at the federal level, removing them from restrictions under the NFA and NICS system.

- Abolish the ATF President Trump and Congress can start right now by:
- Firing Anti-Gun ATF Director Steve Dettelbach on day one, and;
- Reducing the ATF’s budget to Pre-Obama Levels — cut at least $1 Billion (50%) for FY25.

- Overturn / Defund Biden’s Executive Gun Controls - The incoming administration and Congress must act immediately, using every available tool — including executive actions, budgetary control, legislation, the Administrative Procedures Act, and the Congressional Review Act — to:

- Repeal the ATF’s “Engaged in the Business” Rule (Final Rule 2022R-17F).

- Rescind the ATF’s bans on homemade firearms, pistol braces, and forced-reset triggers. ... now that the Supreme Court has overturned the Chevron Defense. This includes ATF final rules 2021R-05F, 2021R-08F, 2018R–22F, and the ATF’s letter dated 3/22/22. Congress should repeal these bans and pass bills like the PISTOL Act (H.R.381, 118th Cong.) to prevent similar overreach in the future.

- Eliminate Biden’s Office of Gun Violence Prevention and reinstate the Dicky Amendment.

- Direct the Justice Department not to defend any gun control law or regulation in court. (What previous post talked about)

- End Federal “Red Flag” Gun Confiscation Support

- Repeal the Red Flag Justice Assistance Grants authorized under the “Bipartisan Safer Communities Act.” Taxpayer dollars should not fund states that violate Americans’ rights.

- Pass the Federal Agent Responsibility Act (H.R.1243, 118th Cong.) to hold federal agents accountable and prevent them from participating in these unconstitutional gun grabs.

- Destroy the ATF’s Illegal Gun Registries

- End multi-gun purchase reporting.

- End Unconstitutional Name Dumps into the NICS “Prohibited Persons” List

- Restore gun rights to veterans

- Pass the Protecting Gun Rights and Due Process Act (S. 2802 / 114th Cong. & H.R.1258 / 118th Cong.) to ensure that no one is placed on a federal “no guns” list without a proper judicial process.

- Repeal the “Sporting Purpose” Clause and Firearm Import Bans (Bill already introduced - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461220#msg1461220)

- Repeal the Federal Gun Tax

- Repeal the NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968, and Hughes Amendment of 1989
« Last Edit: January 27, 2025, 11:17:59 AM by Live Life »

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #192 on: January 27, 2025, 11:12:18 AM »
Update to AW/magazine ban - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1462891#msg1462891

Supreme Court order list just released - https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/012725zor_bp7c.pdf

Kostas Moros - https://x.com/MorosKostas/status/1883885925408858165
Quote
Our torture continues. Nothing on Snope or Ocean State. So presumably another relist.

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #193 on: January 27, 2025, 12:37:19 PM »
With NAGR board chairman/chief legal counsel David Warrington appointed to serve as White House Counsel and Assistant to President Trump overseeing over 30 attorneys, I am quite certain what NAGR aimed to work on with 119th Congress will have President Trump's ear - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1461878#msg1461878

These are NAGR's agenda for 2025 which includes, "Rescind the ATF’s bans on ... pistol braces" -
Quote
.....
 Rescind the ATF’s bans on homemade firearms, pistol braces, and forced-reset triggers. ... now that the Supreme Court has overturned the Chevron Defense. This includes ATF final rules 2021R-05F, 2021R-08F, 2018R–22F, and the ATF’s letter dated 3/22/22. Congress should repeal these bans and pass bills like the PISTOL Act (H.R.381, 118th Cong.) to prevent similar overreach in the future.

...


Uh huh.  You'll have to forgive me if that line doesn't fill me with confidence at the author's grasp of federal rule making and unmaking.

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #194 on: January 27, 2025, 01:09:48 PM »
Uh huh.  You'll have to forgive me if that line doesn't fill me with confidence at the author's grasp of federal rule making and unmaking.

Thread's OP disclaimer  =D - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1456139#msg1456139
Disclaimer:  I am not a lawyer, just a "layperson". 

Subjective opinions expressed in this thread by me are my personal thoughts and by no means objective factual "legal" explanation of case rulings and lawyers/attorneys' expressions posted

To this layperson, 30+ attorneys working under NAGR's David Warrington are likely to increase as Trump's administration fulfills campaign promises made.  We do not know all the work that's going on behind the scenes but indications we have seen so far is that Trump administration is hitting the ground running for "We the People" who elected Trump.

And as I explained to administrator Ben, this migrated thread from THR restarted by many requests is meant to be informative/educational thread to keep THR/APS members updated of current 2A/ATF events.

I certainly agree and support need for a 2A/ATF related discussion thread and perhaps I may start such a thread to allow open "polite" discussion.

... So obviously, there will be disagreements/arguments why I may/could be wrong, likely what is "proper" interpretation ...

This thread is meant to be educational and informative and not a definitive authority on legal works of US Constitution and Bill of Rights so ... consider starting a new thread for such discussion. Thank you.

BTW, these are FPC attorney Anthony Miranda's comments on Trump administration's options regarding pistol brace Rule and ATF wanting to still enforce pistol brace Rule - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1463184#msg1463184
Quote from: Anthony Miranda
... there are plenty of options Trump administration has to cure this issue so let's talk about some of those options:

- First option ... Trump administration can direct the ATF to actually withdraw or amend their existing Rule on pistol braces ... This could potentially involve something kind of a longer process of initiating a new rule making process, including a public comment period and potentially reverse or alter the current regulations ... So that is a longer process but that would be more permanent and it would be a clear statement that no braced pistols are in fact SBRs and would set a stronger precedent going forward

- Second one of the options ... Trump administration could simply cease to actually defend any of the ongoing litigation on the pistol brace issue ... His administration may just choose to stop defending the pistol brace Rule or tell the courts that no, they're no longer of the position, the ATF position, no longer is that they want to defend these lawsuits ... That they agree with the courts that have multiple times in preliminary injunction reviews and final merits decisions found that this Rule is invalid

... - The third option is Trump administration could simply issue new guidance ... We've seen ATF issue guidance and guidance letters multiple times on not just the pistol brace issue but other issues as well ... ATF could release new guidance clarifying that stabilizing braces do not convert pistols into SBRs, effectively nullifying their previous rules and the impacts of that Rule ... The issue with this option ... is ... we've seen guidance letters and guidance in general by the ATF kind of been thrown aside, you know when ATF wants to do something new

... - I like one of the other options because I think those would be a little bit more concrete and would have more effect on this issue going forward
- All those options that I mentioned would directly impact these current lawsuits against the pistol braces Rule
« Last Edit: January 27, 2025, 06:38:56 PM by Live Life »

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #195 on: January 27, 2025, 01:29:01 PM »
*expletive deleted*in hell man, I ain't reading all that.

FWIW you were quoting the agenda for NAGR, so unless you are quoting yourself, which is almost as bad as speaking in the third person, I wasn't impugning YOUR grasp of the federal rulemaking process, but whomever at NAGR decided that Congress needed to be involved in rescinding rules in the wake of the staggering defeat of Chevron Defense.

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #196 on: January 27, 2025, 03:01:56 PM »
*expletive deleted*in hell man, I ain't reading all that ...

Reply posted in "Discussion" thread - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70469.msg1463241#msg1463241

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #197 on: January 27, 2025, 06:35:53 PM »
Adding to update of AW/Magazine ban - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1463191#msg1463191

Quote from: Kostas Moros
Our torture continues. Nothing on Snope or Ocean State. So presumably another relist.

Mark Smith - https://x.com/fourboxesdiner/status/1883912327210361163
Quote
2A SCOTUS: No order today in Snope (AR ban) or Ocean State (mag ban). This confirms they won't be heard this 2024-25 term. Best case: 2A must cheer that SCOTUS grants cert for cases to be heard in fall 2025. Worse case: cert is denied and someone issues dissent therefrom

< 2A History: Is there ANY possibility of a per curiam coming, and they are waiting on a dissent to be finished?>

Mark Smith: In my view, a per curium opinion like we saw in Caetano is not possible in the Snope or Ocean State cases. It is a theoretical possibility but I don't see it given the importance of those cases. Our best chance, which would not be terrible, is that they grant cert for next term.

Kostas Moros - https://x.com/MorosKostas/status/1883927911855706265
Quote
Frustrating cuz this absolutely should be decided per curiam. In essence, its the same case as Caetano, except the ban is on way more common arms than stunguns. But because "assault weapons" are controversial, it is treated differently.

A punt per curiam is also possible.

If a next term grant, why make Ocean State wait 18 months? It could get a final judgment and maybe even an appeal ruling by then.

So denial on both with a joint dissent is a strong contender, as much as Ocean State's ongoing presence gives me hope.

We need more transparency. This is such an obnoxious game of smoke signals. Why do they even tell us about conference scheduling? Just torturing us I guess.

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #198 on: January 28, 2025, 05:53:37 PM »
Adding to AW/Magazine ban update - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1463268#msg1463268

Second Amendment Foundation - https://x.com/2AFDN/status/1883899121674965396
Quote
Snope v Brown - our Assault Weapons Ban challenge currently pending before the Supreme Court - remains pending, having neither been granted nor denied in this morning’s order from the court.

2A Updates With Second Amendment Foundation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGfsXgPTEow

- Coming at you from Shot Show with Adam Kraut, the big boss man over at Second Amendment Foundation
- We've been involved in over 260 lawsuits ... We have over 55 active ones
- Our Crown Jewel ... was McDonald versus City of Chicago
- Snope is one of our 55 active cases ... challenges Maryland's assault weapons ... case went up to the Supreme Court previously while Bruen was being decided back in 2022
- It was held pending Bruen ... Supreme Court granted, vacated and remanded ... means ... court said, we're going to grant the cert petition, we're going to vacate the lower court's judgment or throw it out and we're going to send it back to the lower court to do it all again consistent with ... Bruen analysis
- So the 4th Circuit ... took case back ... it sat for about 13 months before the court and it had been briefed and argued already
- Court said we're going to do this En Banc now so more briefs and ... finally got an En Banc opinion
- We petitioned for cert at the Supreme Court ... was distributed for conference
- It was relisted ... A lot of people have questions about what that means
- I'm sure ... a lot of conjecture going out there ... people telling ... that they know what's going to happen
- Scotus blog ... have some statistics - https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/01/the-statistics-of-relists-over-the-past-five-terms-the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same/
- 5 year span from 2015 through 2020 ... petitions that were relisted ... they found ... 42% of all cases that cert was granted to were cases petitions have been relisted ... so one relist is not the death nail in the coffin for a petition
- You get past one relist into two, three ... it's not looking nearly as good ... still a chance, but you are probably on the side of not going to happen
- So where are we today?
- Well, we're waiting to see what Supreme Court will do
- This past Friday, they ... went back to conference so we're expecting ... whether they punt it for another week or they make a decision
- Our hope obviously is they grant cert to this case and finally put that stake in the heart of the "assault weapon" ban ... it's a good vehicle to do it
- Circuit splits, I think that's an important thing to talk about as well ... the Supreme Court likes to settle areas of law that are out of balance so when a circuit court says you know the law is constitutional and another circuit court says no it's unconstitutional, well that's conflicting and you have two different parts of the country that are two different rules of law unfortunately
- With the "assault weapons" ban, they're all in circuits that have so far upheld it so the circuit splits thing but this does go to the types of common arms in common use for lawful purposes and that's certainly something that's well within the Supreme Court's prerogative to pick up and say like, NOPE this is constitutional or these laws are unconstitutional, these firearms are constitutionally protected
- Throughout our history as a nation in 249 years, this is the most pro 2A Supreme Court that we've ever had and some of the things that they've said in cases that they've taken and ruled on ... it's definitely a court that is not willing to put the Second Amendment as a second class right anymore
- So hopefully we can get some more stuff done here in the next two years before justice Thomas decides he's had enough
- Real quick about interlocutory ... the Supreme Court wants to have something on Final judgment ... means ... it's the end of the road for that case, there's no more avenues for appeal other than to the Supreme Court
- You know civil right, we have right so in the First Amendment context, the Supreme Court has said that yes a violation of the First Amendment constitutes a reparable harm
- And a story in the Second Amendment context, you now have three Circuit Court decisions on that exact issue ... you have the 9th Circuit and the 7th Circuit saying yes a violation of it constitutes ... reparable harm and you have the 3rd Circuit saying no it doesn't so there is that circuit split issue
- But apparently the Supreme Court didn't want to resolve this particular question
- We're waiting on our assault weapon ban, magazine ban case and Snope ... everybody cares about assault weapons bans and magazine capacity challenges ...
« Last Edit: January 28, 2025, 08:16:51 PM by Live Life »

Live Life

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Re: Second Amendment/ATF related cases
« Reply #199 on: January 28, 2025, 08:34:27 PM »
Seems like after Shadow Systems added their entire 920 product line to the roster, Smith & Wesson just added 28 more handguns to the roster. =D 👍

Update to CA Handgun Roster due to Boland v Bonta (CA handgun roster) and Renna v Bonta (CA Unsafe Handgun Act/Handgun roster) - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1463104#msg1463104

Recently Added Handgun Models (143 added since Boland 3/20/23 and Renna 4/3/23 v Bonta preliminary injunctions) - https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/certified-handguns/recently-added

Quote
An asterisk (*) next to the model name below indicates that the handgun was added pursuant to the court's order in Boland v. Bonta.

Manufacturer   Model   Caliber   Gun Type      Date Added

Smith & Wesson   SD9VE CA COMP SKU 13580 H-175 (REB)*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   642-2 (S&W Logo Grip) SKU 163810A   .38 Spl   Revolver   1.87"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   686-6 Plus SKU 150854A   .357 Magnum   Revolver   5"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   686-6 M686 SKU 150712A   .357 Magnum   Revolver   6"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   PC 637-2 SKU 170349A   .38 S&W Special +P   Revolver   1.875"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   SD9VE 4" CA COMP SKU 123903*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   629-6 (Matte) SKU 170135B   .44 Magnum   Revolver   2.625"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   SD9VE CA COMP SLIDE SKU 13576 H-190 (ARMOR BLACK)*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   686-6 M686 SKU 150855A   .357 Magnum   Revolver   7"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   686-6 M686 SKU 150713A   .357 Magnum   Revolver   3"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   PC M642-2 SKU 170348A   .38 Special +P   Revolver   1.875"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   66-8 Combat Magnum SKU 10061A   .357 Magnum   Revolver   2.75"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   M629-6 SKU 170320B   .44 Magnum   Revolver   6"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   SD9VE CA COMP SKU 13577 H-127 (MAGPUL FDE)*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   M642-1 SKU 150972A   .38 Spl   Revolver   1.875"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   629-6 M629 Deluxe SKU 150714A   .44 Magnum   Revolver   6.5"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   69 Combat Magnum SKU 10064A   .44 Magnum   Revolver   2.75"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   460 XVR Hunter SKU 170339A   .460 S&W   Revolver   14"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   SD9VE CA COMP SKU 13578 H-236 (OD GREEN)*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   617-6 (S&W Logo Grip) SKU 160578A   .22 LR   Revolver   6"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   629-6 M629 Deluxe 3" SKU 150715A   .44 Magnum   Revolver   3"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   642 SKU 10186A   .38 Special +P   Revolver   1.875"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   642-1 (Matte Silver) SKU 178042A   .38 Spl   Revolver   1.87"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   SD9VE CA COMP SKU 13579 H-214 (BULL SHARK GREY)*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   637-2 (S&W Logo Grip) SKU 163050A   .38 Spl   Revolver   1.87"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   686-6 M686 SKU 150853A   .357 Magnum   Revolver   3"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   M642-2 SKU150466A   .38 Spl   Revolver   1.875"   01/28/2025
Smith & Wesson   686-6 Plus Pro Series (Stn Stnls) SKU 178038A   .357 Magnum Revolver   5"   01/28/2025
Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9L- BLACK (HG7884CA-N)*   9MM   Pistol   3.2"   01/23/2025
Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9-SLIDE BLACK FRAME FDE (HG7651CABD-N)*   9MM   Pistol   3.2"   01/23/2025
Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9-FDE (HG7651CAD-N)*   9MM   Pistol   3.2"   01/23/2025
Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9LS- BLACK (HG7885CA-N)*   9MM   Pistol   3.6"   01/23/2025
Shadow Systems   MR920 SS-1052-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/22/2025
Shadow Systems   XR920 SS-3052-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/22/2025
Heckler & Koch   VP9 Match*   9MM   Pistol   5.51"   01/22/2025
Shadow Systems   XR920 SS-3040-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/22/2025
Shadow Systems   DR920P SS-2240-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4.5"   01/22/2025
Shadow Systems   MR920 SS-1040-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/22/2025
Girsan/EAA   MC P35 CAL LIBERADOR*   9MM   Pistol   4.87"   01/14/2025
Shadow Systems   XR920 SS-3039-CA*   9MM   Pistol   3.75"   01/01/2025
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield Plus (Purple Frame)-14299*   9MM   Pistol   3.1"   01/01/2025
Rost Martin   RM1C FDE OSP*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/01/2025
Colt   PYTHON (PYTHON-BP6WTS)   .357 Magnum   Revolver   6"   01/01/2025
Rost Martin   RM1C GRAY OSP*   9MM   Pistol   4"   01/01/2025
Henry Repeating Arm   H016GD   .22 S/L/LR   Revolver   4"   01/01/2025
Shadow Systems   DR920P SS-2239-CA*   9MM   Pistol   4.5"   01/01/2025
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield Plus (Pink Slide)-14298*   9MM   Pistol   3.1"   01/01/2025
Shadow Systems   MR920 SS-1039-CA*   9MM   Pistol   3.75"   01/01/2025
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield Plus (SLV/REB)-14297*   9MM   Pistol   3.1"   01/01/2025
Colt   PYTHON (PYTHON-BP4WTS)   .357 Magnum   Revolver   4.25"   01/01/2025
Rost Martin   RM1C BLACK OSP*   9MM   Pistol   4"   12/04/2024
FMK Firearms   9C1 G3 (Black)*   9MM   Pistol   4"   12/03/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   LCP MAX 13748*   380 Auto   Pistol   2.80"   11/26/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9 UPC 642230267961*   9mm   Pistol   4.09"   11/20/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9 UPC 642230267947*   9mm   Pistol   4.09"   11/20/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9L UPC 642230267985*   9mm   Pistol   5"   11/20/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9SK UPC 642230268005*   9mm   Pistol   3.39"   11/20/2024
Sig Sauer   365XL-9-ROSE-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.1"   10/30/2024
Century Arms Inc.   METE MC9*   9mm   Pistol   3.2"   10/08/2024
North American Arms   NAA-PUG-D   .22 Mag   Revolver   1"   08/13/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   LCRx-05439B   .22 WMRF   Revolver   1.87"   07/17/2024
Smith & Wesson   SD9 VE-11907*   9mm   Pistol   4"   07/16/2024
Kimber   RAPIDE (DAWN)(9MM)*   9mm   Pistol   5"   07/03/2024
Kimber   RAPIDE (DAWN)(45ACP)*   .45 ACP   Pistol   5"   07/03/2024
Kimber   CUSTOM LW (SHADOW GHOST)(9MM)*   9mm   Pistol   5"   07/03/2024
Kimber   CUSTOM LW (SHADOW GHOST)(45ACP)*   .45 ACP   Pistol   5"   07/03/2024
Smith & Wesson   SW22 VICTORY SKU 108490*   .22 LR   Pistol   5.5"   06/12/2024
Springfield Armory   Hellcat-Stainless HC9319SOSPCA*   9mm   Pistol   3"   06/11/2024
Springfield Armory   Hellcat Pro- Stainless HCP9379SOSPCA*   9mm   Pistol   3.7"   06/11/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SP101-05765A   .22 LR   Revolver   4.2"   05/21/2024
Sig Sauer   320XF-9-BXR3P-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   4.7"   05/16/2024
Sig Sauer   320X5-9-LEGION-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   5"   05/16/2024
Sig Sauer   365XCA-9-COMP-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.1"   05/16/2024
Kahr Arms   CW90G93/CW90G93N   9mm   Pistol   3.5"   05/07/2024
Standard Manufacturing Co.   S333 THUNDERSTRUCK GEN III   .22 WMR   Revolver   2.25"   05/07/2024
Springfield Armory   XD-M Elite Compact 3.8 OSP-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.8"   04/03/2024
Springfield Armory   XD-M Elite 4.5 OSP-CA*   9mm   Pistol   4.5"   04/03/2024
Springfield Armory   XD-M Elite 3.8 OSP-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.8"   04/03/2024
Girsan (Imported by European American Armory Corporation)   MC P35*   9mm   Pistol   4.87"   04/02/2024
Walther   P22 CA (Grey Slide) Grey Grip   .22 LR   Pistol   3.42"   03/08/2024
Browning   Buck Mark Medallion Rosewood*   .22 LR   Pistol   5.5"   03/05/2024
Browning   Buck Mark Micro Bull*   .22 LR   Pistol   4"   03/05/2024
Taurus   2-85621ULC31NS   .38 Special   Revolver   2"   02/22/2024
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield (OD) SKU 14016/Stainless Steel;Polymer   9mm   Pistol   3"   02/09/2024
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield (OD) SKU 14015/Stainless Steel;Polymer   9mm   Pistol   3"   02/09/2024
Colt   PYTHON (PYTHON-SP5WTS)   .357 Mag   Revolver   5"   02/06/2024
Colt   PYTHON (PYTHON-SP2WCTS)   .357 Mag   Revolver   2.5"   02/06/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9*   9mm   Pistol   4.09"   01/31/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9L OR*   9mm   Pistol   5"   01/31/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9 OR*   9mm   Pistol   4.09"   01/31/2024
Heckler & Koch   VP9SK OR*   9mm   Pistol   3.39"   01/31/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   LCRX-05437B   .22 WMRF   Revolver   3"   01/11/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SP101-05773A   .327 Fed Magnum   Revolver   4.2"   01/11/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SUPER REDHAWK - 05526   .22 Hornet   Revolver   9.5"   01/11/2024
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   MARK IV - 40187   22 LR   Pistol   5.5"   01/04/2024
Taurus   2-856P39   .38 Special   Revolver   3"   01/04/2024
Taurus   2-605P39   .357 Mag   Revolver   3"   01/04/2024
Henry Repeating Arm   H017BDM   .38 Spl/.357 Mag   Revolver   4"   01/04/2024
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 M2.0 - 14033*   9mm   Pistol   4.25"   11/16/2023
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 M2.0 Compact - 14032*   9mm   Pistol   4"   11/16/2023
Smith & Wesson   M&P9 Shield Plus - 14031*   9mm   Pistol   3.1"   11/16/2023
Springfield Armory   XDM Elite*   9mm   Pistol   4.5"   11/16/2023
Springfield Armory   Hellcat Pro*   9mm   Pistol   3.7"   11/16/2023
Springfield Armory   Hellcat*   9mm   Pistol   3"   11/16/2023
Colt   ANACONDA (ANACONDA-SP4RTS)   44 Magnum   Revolver   4.25"   11/16/2023
Kimber   K6XS Carry   .38 Special +P   Revolver   2"   11/16/2023
Sig Sauer   365-9-BXR3P-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.1"   11/02/2023
Henry Repeating Arm   H017GDM   .38Spl/.357Mag   Revolver   4"   09/19/2023
Charter 2000   14423 Bulldog (Grip Rose wood)   .44 Special   Revolver   4"   09/19/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DFDE   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (OD Green)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-OD   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (OD Green)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Dark Grey)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DBB   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (FDE)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DAF   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Burnt Bronze)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Blue Jay)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DRD   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (FDE)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-DTAF   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Pink/Raspberry)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-SG   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Burnt Bronze)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Blue Jay)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-FDEC   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Pink/Raspberry)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-BB   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Dark Grey)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Titianium Grey)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-GRC   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Black)(w/Polished Barrel)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP-FDE   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Black)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
FMK Firearms   9C1 Gen II (Titanium Grey)   9mm   Pistol   3.87"   08/08/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   Max-9 03518*   9mm   Pistol   3.2"   08/03/2023
Armscor Precision   M1911 A1 FS PSA Standard (AS) (57007)   .45 ACP   Pistol   5"   08/01/2023
Sig Sauer   320CA-9-M18-MS-CA*   9mm   Pistol   3.9"   07/13/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - GRN/Tungsten   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - FDE/Tungsten   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - Tungsten   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - Cobalt   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Heckler & Koch   P2000-V3 9mm - RAL8000   9mm   Pistol   3.3"   07/05/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SP101, 05784A   327   Revolver   3"   06/29/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   LCP II 13747*   .22 LR   Pistol   2.75"   06/14/2023
Colt   ANACONDA (ANACONDA-SP8RTS)   .44 Magnum   Revolver   8"   06/13/2023
Colt   ANACONDA (ANACONDA-SP6RTS   .44 Magnum   Revolver   6"   06/13/2023
Smith & Wesson   SKU13331   350 Legend   Revolver   7.5"   05/30/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   MARK IV-40183*   .22 LR   Pistol   5.5"   05/24/2023
Sturm, Ruger & Co.   SR22P-03657*   .22 LR   Pistol   3.5"   05/24/2023
Juggernaut Tactical   JT-9 SSP   9mm   Pistol   8.5"   05/18/2023
« Last Edit: January 28, 2025, 08:53:53 PM by Live Life »