Author Topic: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences  (Read 3747 times)

dogmush

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2025, 08:36:13 AM »
^^^
I don't hate the idea of that headline.  Federal drug cases and sentences have been BS since Reagan.

That said, I have learned my lesson about trusting leftists and trusting the media to accuratly report what leftists are doing.  I'd like to see an excel spreadsheet with names, charges, sentences, and how much was commuted.

Were these aholes caught with 3 pot plants, or were they selling meth at an elementary school?

Ben

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2025, 08:42:13 AM »
Were these aholes caught with 3 pot plants, or were they selling meth at an elementary school?

That's kinda what I'm getting at with the 06JAN comparison. We probably don't need to pay for prisoners who got five years for growing a personal weed in their backyard. We also don't need to send people to prison for five years for trespassing, or 18 years for saying something on the internet.

I still want the judge who sentenced beyond normal maximums, and beyond what the prosecution was asking for, locked up. Maybe for 18 years.
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cordex

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #77 on: January 17, 2025, 08:48:53 AM »
Were these aholes caught with 3 pot plants, or were they selling meth at an elementary school?
More importantly to me, were these guys guilty only of possession or were they convicted only of possession?

It is not uncommon at all for the harder to prove, more serious crimes to get pled down to slam-dunk possession charges.

dogmush

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2025, 09:03:31 AM »
More importantly to me, were these guys guilty only of possession or were they convicted only of possession?

It is not uncommon at all for the harder to prove, more serious crimes to get pled down to slam-dunk possession charges.

Valid point.

The "Doesn't trust the feds" part of me says that If they can't prove the greater charge, then they can't put a large sentence on a smaller "slam dunk" charge to get the punishment of the greater charge.  The article said these sentences were "greater than they would get under current law".  Of course media lies, so there's that.

While we're on the subject, how many of these were plea deals?

Nuance matters.  Who Knew?  =D

Boomhauer

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2025, 09:15:04 AM »
A- Sentencing he caused with his crime bill
B- yes, I’m sure they are all fine, innocent people and there isnt a single complete piece of *expletive deleted*it who will go back to terrorizing their local community.
C- you didn’t give a *expletive deleted*it about them for the last four years, only now when it’s a thumb in the eye of society.
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Ben

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #80 on: January 17, 2025, 09:20:14 AM »
It is not uncommon at all for the harder to prove, more serious crimes to get pled down to slam-dunk possession charges.

Very valid point. If I go just by those stupid police bodycam videos I'm hooked on, it's very common to see aggravated assault, in possession of stolen property, punching a cop in the face, and driving with a suspended license, plead down to driving with a suspended license, $100 bond.
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cordex

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2025, 10:33:42 AM »
The "Doesn't trust the feds" part of me says that If they can't prove the greater charge, then they can't put a large sentence on a smaller "slam dunk" charge to get the punishment of the greater charge.  The article said these sentences were "greater than they would get under current law".  Of course media lies, so there's that.
I'd totally buy that sentencing guidelines have changed since many of these people were sentenced.

But I can also easily see a prosecutor wanting to pad their W/L ratio with another plea justifying to themselves and the victims of a crime that the imposed sentence for the slam-dunk possession charge is sufficient to allow them not to pursue the probable but not certain conviction on more serious charges.

That's okay, I'm sure that Biden carefully considered all 2,500 of these commutations for all the nuance necessary.

dogmush

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2025, 10:47:50 AM »
I'd totally buy that sentencing guidelines have changed since many of these people were sentenced.

But I can also easily see a prosecutor wanting to pad their W/L ratio with another plea justifying to themselves and the victims of a crime that the imposed sentence for the slam-dunk possession charge is sufficient to allow them not to pursue the probable but not certain conviction on more serious charges.

That's okay, I'm sure that Biden carefully considered all 2,500 of these commutations for all the nuance necessary.

Oh definitely!! That's why he seems so sleepy on TV all the time.  All the late nights pouring over case details and carefully considering his judicious use of Executive Power.

Ben

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Ben

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2025, 07:46:26 AM »
It's just hitting the breaking news cycle, but he just pardoned Fauci, Milley, and EVERYONE associated with the J6 Committee, including witnesses and staff.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

dogmush

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #85 on: January 20, 2025, 08:13:41 AM »
It's just hitting the breaking news cycle, but he just pardoned Fauci, Milley, and EVERYONE associated with the J6 Committee, including witnesses and staff.

Do you want vigilantes?

Because this is how you get vigilantes.

dogmush

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #86 on: January 20, 2025, 08:43:05 AM »
Follow up:  I went looking for source documents and what I found was this:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2025/01/20/statement-from-president-joe-biden-15/

Quote
That is why I am exercising my authority under the Constitution to pardon General Mark A. Milley, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the Members of Congress and staff who served on the Select Committee, and the U.S. Capitol and D.C. Metropolitan police officers who testified before the Select Committee. The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense. Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country.

Notwithstanding the untested nature of preemptive pardons, this statement begs the question: Pardon them from what?  Everything they ever may have done in their entire life?  Actions related to their government employment? Is there, like with Hunter, a suspiciously specific timeframe covered?  I have yet to find the text of the actual pardons.

MechAg94

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #87 on: January 20, 2025, 08:52:49 AM »
Follow up:  I went looking for source documents and what I found was this:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2025/01/20/statement-from-president-joe-biden-15/

Notwithstanding the untested nature of preemptive pardons, this statement begs the question: Pardon them from what?  Everything they ever may have done in their entire life?  Actions related to their government employment? Is there, like with Hunter, a suspiciously specific timeframe covered?  I have yet to find the text of the actual pardons.
That is odd language.  IMO, I think they should still be investigated and the totality of their crimes detailed out and made public.  Let a judge or the SC reject charges based on the pardon.  In addition, if they are pardoned, they should have no issue testifying since it can't be held against them.
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Live Life

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #88 on: January 20, 2025, 09:21:00 AM »
It's just hitting the breaking news cycle, but he just pardoned Fauci, Milley, and EVERYONE associated with the J6 Committee, including witnesses and staff.
... untested nature of preemptive pardons ... Pardon them from what? 

I have yet to find the text of the actual pardons.

Nope on "preemptive pardons".

Presidential pardon is "granted in recognition of the applicant's acceptance of responsibility for the crime and established good conduct for a significant period of time after conviction or release from confinement."

Note the key word "AFTER conviction or release from confinement". :rofl:

Biden named individuals have not been charged, convicted and sentenced nor filed applications to establish "acceptance of responsibility for crime" (As that's what pardon is based on ... "acceptance of responsibility for crime" AFTER "established good conduct for a significant period of time"). ;)=D

I anticipate Trump administration immediately filing legal challenge as there is no such language under presidential commutation/pardon requirements - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70274.msg1457165#msg1457165

Quote
There are some "requirements" to receive presidential commutation/pardon - https://www.justice.gov/pardon/file/898541/dl

"Under the Department's rules governing petitions for executive clemency ... applicant must ... demonstrate an ability to lead a responsible, productive and law-abiding life ...

presidential pardon ... is granted in recognition of the applicant's acceptance of responsibility for the crime and established good conduct for a significant period of time after conviction or release from confinement. A pardon is not a sign of vindication and does not connote or establish innocence. For that reason, when considering the merits of a pardon petition, pardon officials take into account the petitioner's acceptance of responsibility, remorse, and atonement for the offense."
« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 09:39:33 AM by Live Life »

WLJ

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #89 on: January 20, 2025, 09:23:12 AM »
It's just hitting the breaking news cycle, but he just pardoned Fauci, Milley, and EVERYONE associated with the J6 Committee, including witnesses and staff.

And
Quote
Square profile picture
@amuse
@amuse
PARDON: Biden has pardoned Michael Byrd for the murder of Ashli Babbitt. The pardon applies to every police officer interviewed by the J6 Committee for ALL crimes committed before, on, or after J6.
https://x.com/amuse/status/1881318221028139390
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Kingcreek

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #90 on: January 20, 2025, 09:28:52 AM »
Preemptive pardons. This is all wrong.
A corrupt and senile old man can ensure his people are never charged.
Fauci is especially evil and should not skate with his huge gov pension.
What we have here is failure to communicate.

MechAg94

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #91 on: January 20, 2025, 09:33:40 AM »
Preemptive pardons. This is all wrong.
A corrupt and senile old man can ensure his people are never charged.
Fauci is especially evil and should not skate with his huge gov pension.
Does the pardon negate any form of administrative punishment or civil liability?  In other words, can misconduct as a federal employee still be held against them?
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dogmush

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #92 on: January 20, 2025, 09:43:05 AM »
... untested nature of preemptive pardons ... Pardon them from what? 

I have yet to find the text of the actual pardons.

Nope on "preemptive pardons".

Presidential pardon is "granted in recognition of the applicant's acceptance of responsibility for the crime and established good conduct for a significant period of time after conviction or release from confinement."

Note the key word "AFTER conviction or release from confinement". :rofl:

Biden named individuals have not been charged, convicted and sentenced nor filed applications to establish "acceptance of responsibility for crime" (As that's what pardon is based on ... "acceptance of responsibility for crime").  I anticipate Trump administration immediately filing legal challenge as there is no such language under presidential commutation/pardon requirements - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70274.msg1457165#msg1457165

Well, It's more complicated than that.  The quote you provided is from the "Application for a pardon".  CFRs (Executive branch rules) say that a prisoner can not ASK for a pardon unless they accept responsibility for the crime.  Those rules are silent on whom the President can give a pardon to.  And even if they were not, there is some real question about the chief executive's ability to waive CFRs if he wants to.  A CFR is NOT a law, and while they are often tied to a law, they are not themselves a product of legislative function, and are under the purview of the Executive Branch.  Additionally Presidents routinely grant posthumous Pardons for people they feel have been wronged in the past.  These folks are obviously not accepting responsibility for anything.

The COTUS only says:
Quote from: Article II, Section 2, Clause 1
The President shall.....have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Timing is not mentioned.  There is some case law on the subject: In Garland, 71 U.S. at 380 (1866) SCOTUS held that a Pardon can be issued anytime after the commission of the crime, Which this certainly is.  There is no need for formal proceedings to have started. (For Example, Ford Pardoned Nixon before any formal charges had been filed, and the matter was dropped).

So there is some question as to whether these pardons would stand up.  There is precedent and case law that the President does not have to wait for a court case or conviction, and certainly not an admission of guilt to issue a pardon, but it hasn't really been tested in court.  There is also the open question of whether the President needs to pardon a specific "Offense against the United States" or if these blanket "anything this guy did" pardons will stand up.

Hence my comment on the "untested" nature of the pardons.

WLJ

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #93 on: January 20, 2025, 09:56:57 AM »
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

Ben

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #94 on: January 20, 2025, 09:57:44 AM »
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

WLJ

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #95 on: January 20, 2025, 10:04:25 AM »
Quote
MAZE
@mazemoore
December, 2020. Jake Tapper asks President-elect Biden about the rumor that Trump may issue some preemptive pardons before leaving office.

Biden: You're not going to see me do that. 🤣

https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1881334756304118234
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― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
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WLJ

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #96 on: January 20, 2025, 10:19:32 AM »
Even many on left are calling this an admission of guilt
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
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“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

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Live Life

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #97 on: January 20, 2025, 10:19:59 AM »
So there is some question as to whether these pardons would stand up. 

Hence my comment on the "untested" nature of the pardons.
Then I guess it's high time to test preemptive pardons.

Even many on left are calling this an admission of guilt
Yup.

WLJ

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #98 on: January 20, 2025, 11:30:46 AM »
Fauci's pardon is backdated to 2014
IIRC wasn't Hunter's as well?

https://x.com/DefiantLs/status/1881377825703461261
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

WLJ

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Re: Biden sets new record for commuting 1500 sentences
« Reply #99 on: January 20, 2025, 11:32:41 AM »
Anyone have anything on this?

Quote
Hans Mahncke
@HansMahncke
The fact that Fauci's pardon specifically and explicitly addresses his Covid-related offenses, while being backdated to 2014—the year the gain-of-function ban took effect, which Fauci circumvented by outsourcing experiments to China—speaks volumes as to what this is really about.

https://x.com/HansMahncke/status/1881374058161594846
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi