Is anyone here particularly knowledgeable about Cocker Spaniels?

[Stand_watie]

Let me start out by admitting a severe predjudice - I'm not a Cocker Spaniel fan at all...with the exception of how they look (I do believe they are a quite pretty-to-look-at dog), I never have cared for yappy or hyper dogs, and most CS's from my observance are that. Don't let that admitted predjudice make you think that I don't believe that yappy and hyper dogs don't have good purposes. I know that with the right owner any dog can be a perfect pet, OR (and I think this is particularly the case with dogs that are by breed hyper and yappy) a good service and working dog, but most humans aren't capable or willing to do the work of turning a chijuajua into a good housepet.

All that aside my little brother had the sweetest tempermented Cocker Spaniel I've ever seen. By 'sweetest tempermented' I mean he is quiet, cuddly, non-hyper, and non-aggressive. He has been this way since a small puppy.

He is an intact male, about two, and my little brother wants to breed him.

Do those of you who know the breed have an opinion if this is a hereditary trait that his pups are more likely to have than typical C.S. puppies? Or is he just a genetic aberration, or is this entirely from socialization?

[Gewehr98]

Wasn't there a ranking of dog breeds listed by their propensity to bite not too long ago?  If I remember right, the cute little Cocker Spaniel was right up there.   

[Stand_watie]

Wasn't there a ranking of dog breeds listed by their propensity to bite not too long ago?  If I remember right, the cute little Cocker Spaniel was right up there.   

It's possible that their "cuteness" contributes to the issue with regards to people behaving stupidly around them (IE, acting too familiar because they don't think such a pretty dog could hurt them). I recall that Labradors, which in my experience are particularly friendly dogs in general, consistently rank up there as well...I suspect that is even more to blame on human stupidity (IE, "I think I'll hop over this fence into the waiting jaws of an obviously aggressive dog because after all, it's just a LAB") than the ranking on Cocker Spaniels.


With the exception of my brother's dog, the C.S.'s I've known have been VERY aggressive. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just that people who own them should be aware of it...I'd consider a cocker spaniel a very good watchdog/guard dog.

If any dog breed in my experience has gotten a bum rap regarding aggressiveness, I'd say Rottweilers are it. While mean Rottweilers are not unheard of, I've met far more that were naturally loving towards people, and small children in particular than overly aggressive. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if part of the mythos of Rottweiler aggressiveness wasn't based in protectiveness towards what they consider their "litter" whether it's the families children, the neighbor's kittens or the nest of bunnies they found in the back yard.

[meinbruder]

As a breed, the CS has the reputation of being a soft and lovable dog.  The downside is that due to the ear structure they are prone to infections of the ear/ eye/ nasal tract; one is more likely to be bitten by a CS than any other breed as a result of the dog being just defensive when approached suddenly by a hand to its painful condition that cant be seen by the casual observer.  They also tend to be protective of their pack, family, and can be somewhat aggressive to outsiders. 

In my mind, a yappy and hyper dog is a good thing, a trip-wire if you know what I mean.  I have a beagle-lab mix which is frightened by her own shadow, yappy and hyper doesnt even begin to describe her and yet she is rapidly becoming my favorite in our pack for just that reason.  A well-socialized dog is good outside the home but for my money, Ill take a tripwire any day.

It sounds like your brother has an exceptional dog, if hes a sturdy and steady companion he would be a good breed prospect.  Does the dog have a pedigree to demonstrate good bloodlines?  If so breeding to another sturdy line would strengthen the breed, if not its a shot in the dark; if youll pardon the expression.  The exception doesnt prove the rule.  Most dogs, of any breed, can be ruined by poor training, poor social skills, neglect, or pampering to the extreme.  The CS is a prime example of the pampering problem simply because of its appeal as a cute and lovable dog. 

The only other question that comes to my mind, does your brother rescue?  If he doesnt rescue, he shouldnt breed.
}:)>

[Stand_watie]

...
It sounds like your brother has an exceptional dog, if hes a sturdy and steady companion he would be a good breed prospect.  Does the dog have a pedigree to demonstrate good bloodlines?  If so breeding to another sturdy line would strengthen the breed, if not its a shot in the dark; if youll pardon the expression.  The exception doesnt prove the rule.  Most dogs, of any breed, can be ruined by poor training, poor social skills, neglect, or pampering to the extreme.  The CS is a prime example of the pampering problem simply because of its appeal as a cute and lovable dog... 

I'm not sure The dog has the AKC paperwork, is that the "pedigree"?

Regarding beagle-labs (or lab-eagles), I may have mentioned this to you already, I've had two (my first two dogs in fact). One was unexceptional, a good pet, but nothing to brag on, the other was a super-dog, an all-around hunter-extrodinaire, as well as a sweet and loving family dog.

Speaking of dogs frightened by their own shadow, I adopted an eight year old weimeraner many years ago... she was a sweet and gentle dog, allowed six-week old kittens to "knead" her head mercilessly with no more protest than an occasional whine when they stuck their claws in too deep, and was quite literally afraid of our chickens...This dog would roll her eyes like a frightened horse when the chickens got too close, and slink farther away from them when they looked the other way, if they were too close to her...after a year or so of living with us, she suddenly became a watchdog, and would bay and sound like a slavering vicious hound of hell (she still was timid, gentle and sweet with strangers once they came into the house) when strangers came to the door.

[Bogie]

Chickens are creepy.

[meinbruder]

I'm not sure :) The dog has the AKC paperwork, is that the "pedigree"?

Regarding beagle-labs (or lab-eagles), I may have mentioned this to you already, I've had two (my first two dogs in fact). One was unexceptional, a good pet, but nothing to brag on, the other was a super-dog, an all-around hunter-extrodinaire, as well as a sweet and loving family dog.

AKC paper work should include a pedigree; whether your brother can read and interpret it correctly is another matter entirely.  (No offense intended)  My grandmother spent three years studying bloodlines and histories before turning a mediocre German Sheppard into the foundation of an exceptional bloodline.  A nervous and skittish bitch produced a very stable line of dogs, which would include police, drug, bomb, and service dogs sought after by several agencies in California as well as .gov organizations.  One of her dogs was judged to be clairvoyant by saving the life of a federal agent without any intervention of its handler. 

Learning to read a pedigree isnt something done in a weekend and certainly shouldnt be done to see what good puppies a dog might produce.  Im on my third dog that would produce exceptional puppies but I have no desire to put the kind of work into the project that it deserves.  They are all fixed; there are a lot of good dogs destroyed for the lack of homes and I have no interest in producing more.

I remember the pictures you sent me, a lovely golden little dog.  My Sasha is black with a white blaze on her chest.  Her front legs were ruined in a maiming which her former owners ignored, no vet care for the little mutt farm dog.  She is an exceptional little pet, which could have been a service dog for a hard of hearing person if she had been properly socialized and trained from an early age.  She seems to run our pack, in spite of her infirmity; even our Pit Bull wont push her buttons and Cassie is twice her size.  Sasha is aging prematurely due to her crippling; I will miss her greatly when she passes.

Our latest rescue is a big fluffy Australian Shepherd, he is quite the watchdog and our home is banned from delivery by my favorite Chinese restaurant.  He frightened the driver a couple of times.  He does a great slavering hound from Hell impression and I have no doubt that he would lay down his life for my wife and I.  Im glad he is neutered, the temptation to breed him would be difficult to ignore.  He came to us with a bite accusation and it looks like I must protect him from himself for his lifetime.  I hope with training and proper socialization he lives a long time.   
}:)>

[meinbruder]

Chickens are creepy.

If you want creepy, try watching a six pound chicken beat the crap out of a hundred-twenty pound lab mix over a scrap of pork fat thrown by my BIL some years ago.  Birds are supposedly the descendants/ ancestors of the Jurassic raptors; its a good thing they dont weigh a couple of hundred pounds.   
}:)>

[Gewehr98]

The only other question that comes to my mind, does your brother rescue?  If he doesnt rescue, he shouldnt breed.

Man, I hate that.  It's a friggin' miracle that the domestic dog even existed prior to the AKC and the Rescue Societies.   I know they think they're doing God's Work and all that, but back in my childhood, if I wanted a puppy, my parents would know a farmer down the road who had a litter of labradors or Irish Setters.  We'd pick the dog we wanted, paid the farmer, and I'd have a faithful friend and lifelong companion. When he/she died of natural causes someteen years later, we went down the road and got another one.  I didn't worry about some AKC certificate then, and I sure's hell don't give a rat's patootie about 'em now. 

My current dogs are mixes, fostered from a shelter and never returned (they never called us back, either), and have a clean bill of health from the vet.  They'll follow me to hell and back, and will let my wife and I know when things go "bump" in the night. There was no $400.00 adoption fee or background check/credit check/home visit and inspection, no whiny-assed spiel about being an irresponsible human being for not getting the male dog's nuts cut off, or any of that.  They're my dawgs, my buddies, and contrary to what the propaganda says, we (wife and I) don't have a bazillion litters squirting out each year, nor are we (wife, dawgs, and I) generating buttloads of puppies in a puppy mill causing overcrowding in the kill shelters.  Just like back in the old days on the farm, before AKC showed up all large and in charge. Figure that one out, those who think they're doing God's Work.   

I'll never forget when one of my previous dogs, a dachshund/cocker mix, was enjoying a squadron softball game along with many other family pets, and one of our squadron members, a now well-known Eukanuba agility course trainer and her prize-winning AKC Sheltie were also in attendance.  She's since retired from the Air Force and pursued the agility competitions as a full-time occupation, I saw her and "Spirit" on Animal Planet just last year.  My wife and I were aghast when she yelled at me, "Get that THING away from my dog!"  That about clinched it for me right there.   

[meinbruder]

The only other question that comes to my mind, does your brother rescue?  If he doesnt rescue, he shouldnt breed.

Man, I hate that.  It's a friggin' miracle that the domestic dog even existed prior to the AKC and the Rescue Societies.   I know they think they're doing God's Work and all that, but back in my childhood, if I wanted a puppy, my parents would know a farmer down the road who had a litter of labradors or Irish Setters.  We'd pick the dog we wanted, paid the farmer, and I'd have a faithful friend and lifelong companion. When he/she died of natural causes someteen years later, we went down the road and got another one.  I didn't worry about some AKC certificate then, and I sure's hell don't give a rat's patootie about 'em now. 

My current dogs are mixes, fostered from a shelter and never returned (they never called us back, either), and have a clean bill of health from the vet.  They'll follow me to hell and back, and will let my wife and I know when things go "bump" in the night. There was no $400.00 adoption fee or background check/credit check/home visit and inspection, no whiny-assed spiel about being an irresponsible human being for not getting the male dog's nuts cut off, or any of that.  They're my dawgs, my buddies, and contrary to what the propaganda says, we don't have a bazillion litters squirting out each year, nor are we generating buttloads of puppies in a puppy mill causing overcrowding in the kill shelters.  Just like back in the old days on the farm, before AKC showed up all large and in charge. Figure that one out, those who think they're doing God's Work.   

Actually, there is a butt load of puppies being squirted out of a gazillion puppy mills across the country every year.  Thousands of dogs are destroyed every day merely for lack of a home.  We show UKC and I hate the AKC as much as you do.  The sad fact is that people breeding dogs without a specific market for the offspring are the biggest problem facing the Humane Society today, not to mention the rescue groups.  My wife has placed eighteen dogs in the last year and a half; we have one in the house now looking for a forever home.  My puppy was found at the local HS shelter and I was offended by the questions posed, my wife goes far beyond those questions in placing the dogs in her care.

A lot has changed since we were kids.  One thing that has not changed enough is how man treats the animals in his care.  Far too many people are indifferent to the care received by the animals left in the wake of indiscriminate breeding.
}:)>

[Leatherneck]

I've had experience with two cockers--both thoroughbreds. The first was a temporary boarder as a favor to a college chum of my daughter. She was spolied and exhibited the worst "Cocker Rage" I've ever witnessed. It was triggered by my ordering her down off a bed.

One of our current dawgs is a pound rescue; little pudgy middle-aged balck cocker who's sweet as she can be. I've seen her take on and cow the older Lab over a bone treat. She really was enraged that Bear would try to swipe "her" food. Other than the constant yearning to eat anything she can fit in her mouth she's an ideal little dog.

TC

[Dannyboy]

It's been my experience that cockers, especially black, are the spawn of Satan.

[Brad Johnson]

I have a fried that wanted a dog.  I went with her to the local animal shelter to look, both of us thinking that it would be nice to resuce a deservingly loving canine.

Plenty of dogs, and nice ones, too.  The staff was nice enough, but the questions they were asking ... my, my, my.  You could probably adopt a kid easier than you could have adopted one of their dogs!  My friend was completely ready for said new dog - new doggy condo, nice new bedding in a heated/cooled storeroom that had exterior access, toys, top-shelf food (Science Diet), the works.  She took receipts and everything.

They interviewed her like she was going to be guarding plutonium or something.  It dragged on, and on, and on.  The way they were handling the interview was like a parent lecturing a five-year old - condescending and accusatory.  It felt more like being in the principal's office than in the local animal shelter.  While she intended for the dog to stay out during the day she fully intended to allow the dog inside when she was there, and also inside to sleep when the weather was incliment.  Unfortunately when they asked if the dog was going to be kept in the house all the time she answered honestly and said, "No."  They stopped the interview immediately.  No more questions, no clarification, nothing.  End of interview.  And they said if she wanted to interview for another animal it would have to wait for several weeks before she could try again.  Doggie blacklisted!

The really sad part is that the pooch she wanted to get ended up being euthanized because it was not adopted in the prescribed time.

Brad

[ONE-SHOT-ONE]

in my limited expearence, socialization plays a very big part in how a dog acts. it will not over come every trait inbred to the dog but it goes a long ways towards good behavior. cockers are pretty "smart" dogs and like most working or sporting breeds they need to have "things" to do and it is up to its owner(s) to make sure it is properly occupied.

[Gewehr98]

Brad, I've experienced that, too.  They feel they're doing "God's Work" - even if the dog gets euthanized vs. being adopted out.   

When I want another dog someday, I'll just talk to your typical farmer down the road a ways.  He's usually got healthy lab, retriever, or setter puppies and they go quickly.  No $450.00 adoption fee,  and no anal penetrator investigation required. 

I find it friggin' amazing that dogs and dog owners existed before the "Rescue Societies" and AKC.  The nastygram I received from one individual at a regional "Rescue Society" bordered on stark raving moonbat when she discovered my male dog wasn't neutered.  I didn't hesitate, I dialed her supervisor and told her exactly where she could place that subordinate and her diatribe. 

May as well adopt a human baby for all the crap one wades through, you're absolutely correct.

[Balog]

I've been trying to adopt a dog since I got outta the Corps. It really is amazing how difficult they make it. And a home visit? Yeah friggin right.

[RealGun]

I bred and showed dogs for several years and owned a grooming business, trained in a prominent grooming school. I recall the cocker as a few being among some of the more treacherous to handle, but what I recall most is the seborrhea. So many of them have this waxy junk all over their skin and coat, and their ears are a mess. I think it is both hereditary as well as a vitamin and general nutrition issue. It is also directly correlated to that type of coat, distinct among spaniels.

It was also the breed whose clippings made me itch. Any in the spaniel family gave me the same problem.

The cocker, if full coated, requires regular brushing and combing BY THE OWNER. Otherwise, mats have to be cut out and the full breed cut will not be practical, then going with more of a trimmed "field cut". The cocker is not so handsome without a nice coat and full cut.

There are different breeds of cockers. I have been assuming we are referring to the American Cocker, which has color subclassifications. The English Cocker has less coat and a more trim body type...nice dog, and very good looking in black and white.

I don't know Cockers as happy, glad ta see ya types, but I never saw them on their home turf. In purebreds, I would prefer the more substantial Poodles, including the big standard, expensive to keep groomed but one I can fortunately do myself but not too foofoo.

My current and best all time dog though is a short haired, 25 pound mutt that I rescued from a neighbor at about 7-8 weeks old. He has never been sick or even had a poor stool in five years. That is a very different experience from any purebreds. I clip his nails and brush him, and that's it.