Help an Idiot Out Regarding Access Points and Mesh Networks

[Ben]

Man, do I feel stupid these days. I'm so out of the IT loop that I'm now the guy that I used to be irritated by. Can somebody help a dummy out?

Problem: I got my new Generac generator hooked up to my guest network on my Orbi RB50 mesh network. I thought I had things taken care of, but it drops on and off the network. My generator guy was out today and told me that Generac hardware does not play well with mesh networks, apparently because of mesh channel switching, so sometimes it's viewable, sometimes it's not. He told me a point to point range extender would solve the problem.

I just don't know what I'm doing with range extenders though and could use some help.

One option is that I have an old Cradlepoint router laying around that has a ridiculously long range. Could I wirelessly add it as an AP? Otherwise, is there a specific type of range extender I would need? I understand that some if not all range extenders will not talk to the Orbi mesh, which would actually be preferred by me. If I could keep the generator on a separate "guest network" and separated from my Orbi network and guest network, that would actually be ideal. The generator doesn't need to roam the mesh like a phone or other portable device.

I'm also looking for an extender/AP that doesn't have to be attached to the router via ethernet, as the router is pretty far from where I need the signal to go. If an extender could plug into the port on an Orbi satellite, that would be okay.

Anyways, any help is appreciated.

[AZRedhawk44]

It's been a few years since I looked into range extenders/repeaters, but the general rule at the time was that they tend to half the bandwidth that is otherwise available.

I suggest looking into some sort of beamforming router with multiple antennas rather than a range extender.

What sort of distance are you working with?  Can you run cat6 cable from one structure to another and run two separate wifi networks?

[Ben]

It's been a few years since I looked into range extenders/repeaters, but the general rule at the time was that they tend to half the bandwidth that is otherwise available.

I suggest looking into some sort of beamforming router with multiple antennas rather than a range extender.

What sort of distance are you working with?  Can you run cat6 cable from one structure to another and run two separate wifi networks?

The range from the closest Orbi satellite is only like 75'. The problem would be 75' of digging to run the cable. The generator needs practically no bandwidth, so if I lost some, or a lot, that wouldn't be a big deal.

I suppose another, more complex direction I could go would be one of the long range point to point setups, setting another router up in the shop, since I'm always talking to myself about increasing wifi range outside and into the pastures.

[Brad Johnson]

It's been a few years since I looked into range extenders/repeaters, but the general rule at the time was that they tend to half the bandwidth that is otherwise available.

I suggest looking into some sort of beamforming router with multiple antennas rather than a range extender.

What sort of distance are you working with?  Can you run cat6 cable from one structure to another and run two separate wifi networks?

Don't most range extenders run in simplex mode, thus the halving of bandwidth?

Same question about distance. Direct-buriable cable is inexpensive, a 500 ft spool of DB Cat 6 will set you back less than $200. Figure another hundred for termination supplies and a half-day 4-6" cable trencher rental (if available in your area).

*edit to add* Looks like you answered the distance question while I was typing.

Brad

[dogmush]

Do you have access to the WIFI card/antenna on the generator?  You might be able to just put a Yagi on it and point it at the router?

Be easier than trenching in a hard line.

[RocketMan]

Do you have access to the WIFI card/antenna on the generator?  You might be able to just put a Yagi on it and point it at the router?

Be easier than trenching in a hard line.

Excelllent idea.  Simple and elegant, assuming you have a Generac that will let you do it.
Does your WiFi setup look similar to what's in the picture in the link below?

https://www.generacpowerproducts.com/c/Mobile-Link-Wi-Fi-Ethernet-Accessory/p/G0071700

[Brad Johnson]

Judging by the span of replacement parts, Generac uses a simple SMA-type wifi antenna. If that runs true for Ben's unit, any high-gain 2.4 ghz unit terminated for SMA should do.

Cleaning the antenna connection contacts would be a good first step, and it's free. Just screwing it of and blowing out the connector end would likely be enough if surface corrosion it an issue.

Brad

[Ben]

Excelllent idea.  Simple and elegant, assuming you have a Generac that will let you do it.
Does your WiFi setup look similar to what's in the picture in the link below?

https://www.generacpowerproducts.com/c/Mobile-Link-Wi-Fi-Ethernet-Accessory/p/G0071700

Thanks, this is a good idea to look into. I had actually brought this up with the electrician, who told me that they had discontinued that boxy unit, but he made it sound like the antenna access was for some propriety connector.

A better antenna would certainly help with signal, however the problem still remains (AKAIK from what the electrician told me) that the Generac wifi card does not play well with mesh networks, so I would still need to get something like an extender or separate AP that doesn't bounce signal between satellites or different channels. It's only two days of monitoring, but the signal strength reaching the unit itself has been adequate so far, averaging 40-60%.

[Brad Johnson]

Does the Generac card support 5GHz connections, and does your 5GHz signal reach that far?

Also, have you tried assigning manual IP assignment to the Generac connection (static IP)? I fixed an XBox connectivity issue that way once. No idea if it applies here.

Brad

[Ben]

Does the Generac card support 5GHz connections, and does your 5GHz signal reach that far?

Also, have you tried assigning manual IP assignment to the Generac connection? I fixed an XBox connectivity issue that way. No idea if it applies here.

Brad

No, 2.4 only. I actually was going to try the manual IP, then turning the router off and on to see if the generator reconnects. Though thinking more on it, I am leaning towards the extender or something else that lets me create another guest network. I'd really like to separate out the internet of things stuff from other stuff I have on the current guest network, like my phone, etc.

I can definitely say that both the Generac wifi hardware and the app suck. The only real benefit to the app is the notification portion, which sends alerts to my phone if the generator has an alarm or other issue, versus me remembering to physically check the status light on the unit. Plus an easy way to view logs. Otherwise, the app is not good for much else that interests me, which is why I don't want to sink a ton of time into it.

[Brad Johnson]

Might try the IP assignment anyway. It's free, easy, quick, and can't hurt. Does your setup support multiple guest networks? If so, might consider making one dedicated to the Generac. Hidden SSID yada, yada, yada.

*edit to add* Seeing lots of recommendations for a cheapo TPLink range extender as the solution. If thirty bucks will solve the problem and be relatively plug and play, do it.

Brad

[dogmush]

So I guess it depends on how your mesh is configured/built.  On mine, I have a router from the ISP, and the "base" mesh node is plugged into that, and then the rest of them do their thing. I have the SSID on the ISP's router turned off, but it's still technically there.

I can (and have for troubleshooting)  connected directly to the router skipping the mesh.

So I was thinking do that: put a directional antenna on the generator and connect it directly to the router, not the mesh at all.

Of course if your Orbi mesh connects to the internet differently that won't work.

[RocketMan]

Thanks, this is a good idea to look into. I had actually brought this up with the electrician, who told me that they had discontinued that boxy unit, but he made it sound like the antenna access was for some propriety connector.

A better antenna would certainly help with signal, however the problem still remains (AKAIK from what the electrician told me) that the Generac wifi card does not play well with mesh networks, so I would still need to get something like an extender or separate AP that doesn't bounce signal between satellites or different channels. It's only two days of monitoring, but the signal strength reaching the unit itself has been adequate so far, averaging 40-60%.

The proprietary connector is almost certainly some flavor of standard or reverse sex SMA  connector.  You should be able to adapt to it without much difficulty.

[Cliffh]

Might try the IP assignment anyway. It's free, easy, quick, and can't hurt. Does your setup support multiple guest networks? If so, might consider making one dedicated to the Generac. Hidden SSID yada, yada, yada.

*edit to add* Seeing lots of recommendations for a cheapo TPLink range extender as the solution. If thirty bucks will solve the problem and be relatively plug and play, do it.

Brad

OK, I'll bite.  Where are you seeing these "lots of recommendations"  I've read every post in this thread and didn't see one, let alone multiple recommendations for a range extender.

[Brad Johnson]

OK, I'll bite.  Where are you seeing these "lots of recommendations"  I've read every post in this thread and didn't see one, let alone multiple recommendations for a range extender.

Internet search - "Generac wifi mesh network connection issue"

Brad

[Ben]

*edit to add* Seeing lots of recommendations for a cheapo TPLink range extender as the solution. If thirty bucks will solve the problem and be relatively plug and play, do it.

Brad

This is what I ended up doing last night. Since this stupid generator connection has me going down the rabbit hole of expanding my wifi further out to the property, the $35 can serve as an experiment in expanding my network and creating one or more extra guest networks as additional "firewalls" between the internet of things and my primary network.

[Ben]

Well, that ended up being easy. The Orbi system satellites ping as routers themselves, so I attached the extender to the satellite closest to the genny, and wham bam thank you maam. Under five minutes for setup, though it took me 15 minutes of running around the house getting MAC addresses of the router and satellites and unplugging one satellite at a time to figure out which one was the one I wanted. The Orbi system tells me, but the extender just saw MAC addresses.

Anyways, the extender is plugged in to a garage wall which now also greatly increased my signal to the shop. I set it to its own SSID and made the IP static, so I should be good to go.

[RocketMan]

It's nice when a plan comes together.