Author Topic: Midair Collision at Reagan International  (Read 1771 times)

Boomhauer

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2025, 09:53:23 PM »
Could it have?  Sure.  Did it?  Very hard to say yet.  Unless the chopper pilot, or ATC controller, or airline pilot was clearly incompetent but retained due to DEI.  Which is rather unlikely to be knowable to Trump at this point.  Even if it turns out some fault lies with a person who's a minority that doesn't mean anything becauselots of them are very competent and would have the job without DEI.

Let me state that I doubt it was the case here but DEI has definitely affected ATC. Listening to recordings of ATC transmissions from around the country holy *expletive deleted*it there are some disrespectful, argumentative, down right entitled aholes of controllers, and not a few that are incompetent out there that would not have been tolerated in the past

https://youtu.be/BxbF638gCYQ?feature=shared

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zahc

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2025, 11:42:49 PM »
For the next four years, you know every problem in the country is going to be from Trump's 8ball of DEI, crooked joe, immigrants, or environmentalists.
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K Frame

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2025, 07:01:08 AM »
For the next four years, you know every problem in the country is going to be from Trump's 8ball of DEI, crooked joe, immigrants, or environmentalists.

And we're still going to have a more effective, more functional government that we had under the Depends and the Chuckler presidency.
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WLJ

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2025, 08:30:30 AM »
Well to add fuel to the fire I'm seeing posts saying the BH pilot was a transgender woman who had making anti-Trump statements

Have not seen confirmation yet but even if true may have had zip to do with the crash but will still pour gasoline on the fire never the less.
Reportedly the person being mentioned has spoken out since so not him/her.

This stuff if false isn't helping to sort out this mess
« Last Edit: January 31, 2025, 08:50:59 AM by WLJ »
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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2025, 09:19:04 AM »
Wow, this thread started in the garbage pile and went south from there

https://x.com/CalltoActivism/status/1885074576826146979
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2025, 09:49:19 AM »
I have wanted to pursue a pilot's license for a long time and have followed the youtube channel VASAviation for quite a while, hearing exchanges between ATC and pilots.

I'm kind of surprised at how un-assertive the traffic controller was with the blackhawk.  They don't typically allow craft to get so close to each other and be so casual about leaving visual separation to a single party.  I've seen other videos where the traffic controller will order the non-offending craft to take evasive measures just for safety's sake.

I think ultimately the fault of the crash lies squarely in the lap of the blackhawk pilot, or whomever ordered him to fly with ADS-B disabled at night in crowded civilian air space and overlap with a known ILS approach to a runway... but the controller could have ordered the AA jet to abort landing and circle for a second attempt out of an abundance of caution and thrown an incident report at the blackhawk pilot.  I think plenty of precedent exists for that as an option.

Is FAA ATC typically so lax with military pilots?

Also, I noted that some articles are now coming out about the blackhawk pilots.  Talking about their expertise and flight hours.  Evidently the senior evaluating pilot had 1000 hours, and the junior pilot under evaluation had 500.  Seems pretty low... but then again they're military pilots so most likely young officers.  Kinda hard to have the tens of thousands of hours that air carrier pilots have without a few decades to rack them up.
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K Frame

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2025, 10:05:46 AM »
I kinda wonder what Jamis thinks about this.  He's not saying *expletive deleted*it on FB, which is probably pretty wise.

The only thing that Jamis has said about the incident is that he's decrying the Air Traffic Controller's Association silence. Apparently not even a peep of sympathy or condolences.
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MechAg94

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2025, 10:16:24 AM »
May have been mentioned before, but I am hearing the Blackhawk was doing night vision training/certification meaning the pilot was wearing full night vision.  Supposedly they do that in an urban area to get used to the background lighting.  What I think I heard was they may have not had enough people on board to keep an eye out for other traffic in all directions. 
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Ben

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2025, 10:16:49 AM »
the blackhawk pilot, or whomever ordered him to fly with ADS-B disabled at night in crowded civilian air space and overlap with a known ILS approach to a runway...

I think the ADS-B issue will be a lot more complex than that. The military is given a pretty wide latitude regarding ADS-B. Especially depending on exactly what kind of training flight this was. Or if it was instead, a "training flight", if you catch my drift.
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MillCreek

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2025, 10:38:38 AM »
https://www.newsweek.com/washington-dc-plane-crash-jo-ellis-trans-helicopter-pilot-wrongly-named-2024149

Although the Army does have a transgender helicopter pilot, she was not flying the Blackhawk.  I see also that the Blackhawk was on a practice continuity of government mission, so they were practicing picking up government officials and evacuating them to Mt. Weather or the like.
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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2025, 10:42:45 AM »
If the helo was practicing a "continuity of government" mission, I can see where they would have turned off ADS-B.  I suspect that would be a normal thing on a real CoG mission.
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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2025, 10:43:14 AM »
https://www.newsweek.com/washington-dc-plane-crash-jo-ellis-trans-helicopter-pilot-wrongly-named-2024149

Although the Army does have a transgender helicopter pilot, she was not flying the Blackhawk.  I see also that the Blackhawk was on a practice continuity of government mission, so they were practicing picking up government officials and evacuating them to Mt. Weather or the like.

As I posted above the TGer BH pilot has reportedly spoken out since so if true not him/her
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“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
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MillCreek

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2025, 11:03:09 AM »
If the helo was practicing a "continuity of government" mission, I can see where they would have turned off ADS-B.  I suspect that would be a normal thing on a real CoG mission.

It occurs to me that if Chinese ICBMs are inbound to Washington DC, the skies are going to be pretty crowded with all the aircraft and helicopters evacuating government officials to various bunkers and COG sites.  I wonder if it is every aircraft for themselves, or do they have corridors in the air set up for deconflicting traffic.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2025, 11:27:43 AM »
Given how big the sky is, no matter how crowded it might or might not be, it seems unwise to cross a known busy ILS path when you're not going to land.  Especially when you can move in 3 dimensions and could have gone 200 feet above or below it.  No matter how tacticool you are or however many snakes you ate for lunch or whatever the rank of your backseater might be.

What would the jet wash from this Bombardier do to a helicopter 1/2 mile behind it?  ILS glide slope for this runway is reportedly 3.1%, so if the helo passed 200 feet under (collision was at 400 feet altitude so there was room to go under) then the jet would be about 3000-3500 ft further ahead before it dropped to the same altitude.  And if jet wash would destabilize a blackhawk from half a mile, that demands raising the question again... why are you passing through a known ILS path?  Or even within a mile of a known ILS path?
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WLJ

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2025, 11:37:54 AM »
Honestly I wish Trump had kept quiet and waited to see what the investigations said first.
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2025, 11:39:21 AM »
Matt Bracken has thoughts on the "safe helo corridor"

https://x.com/Matt_Bracken48/status/1885336072210833850

Quote
So, as you can imaging[sic], the air corridor along the Potomac between CIA HQ, the Pentagon, the White House, JBAB and Fort Belvoir is virtually a “helicopter highway.”

An analogy:

https://x.com/Matt_Bracken48/status/1885336950325821822


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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2025, 12:43:27 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGRZrtbFEcU

Helicopter was at 200 feet, right up until the last few seconds before collision.  It climbed to 350.  SOP is to fly below 200 feet on this route.

It's also weird he turned west rather than east to evade.

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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WLJ

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2025, 12:48:06 PM »
Jet wash maybe?

Seen posts suggesting this was intentional saying it appeared he steered towards the jet. Been dismissing them as tin foil so far and I still am until, if, solid evidence comes out it was
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“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2025, 12:58:22 PM »
1 day earlier, TCAS intervenes in another helicopter/jet incident in Reagan airspace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huVFZ__q2rI
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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I reject your authoritah!

Hawkmoon

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2025, 02:12:03 PM »
I have wanted to pursue a pilot's license for a long time and have followed the youtube channel VASAviation for quite a while, hearing exchanges between ATC and pilots.

I'm kind of surprised at how un-assertive the traffic controller was with the blackhawk.  They don't typically allow craft to get so close to each other and be so casual about leaving visual separation to a single party.  I've seen other videos where the traffic controller will order the non-offending craft to take evasive measures just for safety's sake.

I think ultimately the fault of the crash lies squarely in the lap of the blackhawk pilot, or whomever ordered him to fly with ADS-B disabled at night in crowded civilian air space and overlap with a known ILS approach to a runway... but the controller could have ordered the AA jet to abort landing and circle for a second attempt out of an abundance of caution and thrown an incident report at the blackhawk pilot.  I think plenty of precedent exists for that as an option.

Is FAA ATC typically so lax with military pilots?

Also, I noted that some articles are now coming out about the blackhawk pilots.  Talking about their expertise and flight hours.  Evidently the senior evaluating pilot had 1000 hours, and the junior pilot under evaluation had 500.  Seems pretty low... but then again they're military pilots so most likely young officers.  Kinda hard to have the tens of thousands of hours that air carrier pilots have without a few decades to rack them up.

This was a special case. There are several established routes along and near the Potomac that have been established for military helicopters. The route this helo was flying was on one of those established routes. However, the route calls for the helo to be at or below 200 feet where the route passes under the approach to runway 33. This chopper inexplicably ascended through 300 feet just before the collision.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2025, 02:15:17 PM »
Honestly I wish Trump had kept quiet and waited to see what the investigations said first.

Unpossible.

Trump cannot keep quiet. It's not in his DNA.
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BobR

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2025, 02:25:29 PM »
Unpossible.

Trump cannot keep quiet. It's not in his DNA.

Him and the other 8,432 "experts" that have come out of the woodwork to appear on the various networks and other outlets because it is the nature of the networks to encourage speculation rather than letting the investigation take it course and wait for the initial 30 day preliminary report.

bob   


bob

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2025, 02:38:01 PM »
Quick question from a groundlubber...

"RA" in ATC-Speak?

Been seeing references to "RA" in this matter on different you tubes, etc, and looking it up, it's supposedly a code for "Light Rain."

But in context, it seems to be air-lingo, slang, argot, whatever, for "Another air-vehicle is in my vicinity."

Yes?  No?  What?

Terry, 230RN

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2025, 02:42:12 PM »
230:  an RA is a Resolution Advisory, triggered by TCAS.  The computer said to dodge, so the pilot dodged after the computer said to do it.  He was informing ATC of his movements that didn't conform to ATC directions, and why.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Midair Collision at Reagan International
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2025, 03:54:45 PM »
Possibly worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdOU2BGHwHo

Ward Carroll is a retired Navy pilot.
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