New Vehicle Prices and EPA Penalties

[AZRedhawk44]

I had an absolutely fascinating conversation with ChatGPT just a minute ago.  I archived a link to it if you want to read the entire detail of it.
https://chatgpt.com/share/6818cf7b-5cc0-800f-8125-db9b3eeb29d8

But the gist of it is, we (as automobile market truck consumers) are paying about $16 billion dollars a year in EPA penalties for CAFE mpg shortfalls.  Each truck manufactured has about a $6000 markup due to EPA fines.

This does not include SUVs.

CAFE standard for 2024-2026 is 49mpg.

I continued with some more questions after generating the link above, but it estimated that the CAFE standards are adding about $40 billion dollars every year in manufacturing/compliance costs that are being passed to us with markup to about $60 billion as consumer level hidden taxes on cars.

[grampster]

I wondered why a midsized pkp like a 4wd Colorado costs nearly $40,000.00.

[zahc]

CAFE has to be the winner, or a strong candidate, for the worst, stupidest, and most destructive federal economic policy ever devised, just in terms of scale and stupidity.

Why don't they get rid of it? Not even the MAGA coalition, which are either neutral or actively antagonistic to environmental goals, plus pay lip service to inefficient government and over-stepping bureaucracy and red tape?

Because for arcane reasons, the big incumbent automakers actually benefit from CAFE, that's why. MAGA only seems to recognize policies as "waste, fraud and abuse" if said policies benefit regular Americans. Policies that benefit their industry masters at the EXPENSE of regular Americans, like CAFE, all seem to get passed over and left in place. And when American cars get too expensive to be competitive, they just pass tariffs to eliminate the competition. It's a big club, and you aren't in it.

[tokugawa]

Is that just the overt cost, taxes, designs, penalties etc, or does it include the repair costs? I have heard some of the extreme measures to comply have driven way over complex expensive "solutions" like 10 speed automatic transmissions, cylinder deactivation, etc. My 2020 chevy van  operates at an indicated 210 degrees. Hmm.

 The people i read say most of the emissions and mileage improvements were obtained in the early 2000's, and they are now insisting we pick the very last apple at the top of the tree. Law of diminishing returns coming home to bite.

[AZRedhawk44]

Is that just the overt cost, taxes, designs, penalties etc, or does it include the repair costs? I have heard some of the extreme measures to comply have driven way over complex expensive "solutions" like 10 speed automatic transmissions, cylinder deactivation, etc. My 2020 chevy van  operates at an indicated 210 degrees. Hmm.

 The people i read say most of the emissions and mileage improvements were obtained in the early 2000's, and they are now insisting we pick the very last apple at the top of the tree. Law of diminishing returns coming home to bite.

Nope.  Doesn't include the engineering costs of attempts to improve ICE or transmission efficiency.  Nor the future costs of maintenance, nor the increased depreciation due to lower reliability.

[Bogie]

All the other stuff also adds... How many air bags does  your car have?
 
And then there are those "crumple zones."
 
"You mean we can make a car that will get totaled in a 10 mile an hour parking lot goof? YEAH!" (oh, and you'll pay more on insurance too...)

[zahc]

Practically every popular vehicle has a "best generation" that typically is in the 2005-2015 time-frame. That was about the point where they were still not making major engineering compromises yet. After that you get things like the GM cylinder deactivation, the Honda oil dilution, the CVTs and 10-speed a transmissions. And driveability also went straight in the toilet with mandatory start-stop and stupid shift patterns that are trying to force you to hypermile. Nowadays you are better with a hybrid. The Pacifica van is much much more driveable in hybrid form, and Toyota doesn't even make non-hybrid Siennas anymore. And all that comes with extra weight and a whole nother drivetrain to break down or wear out...

I'm on the lookout for a 2016 Sienna, not because I need one, but because it was the last year with the awesome V6 and 6-speed transmission, before they went direct injection.

[Bogie]

Here in Missouri, the magic number is 1995... Pre-OBD-II...
 
The battlecruiser doesn't use oil appreciably between changes, and it can haul your new truck. Granted, it gets 10mph in the City, but it can also push your new truck out of the way.

[MechAg94]

CAFE has to be the winner, or a strong candidate, for the worst, stupidest, and most destructive federal economic policy ever devised, just in terms of scale and stupidity.

Why don't they get rid of it? Not even the MAGA coalition, which are either neutral or actively antagonistic to environmental goals, plus pay lip service to inefficient government and over-stepping bureaucracy and red tape?

Because for arcane reasons, the big incumbent automakers actually benefit from CAFE, that's why. MAGA only seems to recognize policies as "waste, fraud and abuse" if said policies benefit regular Americans. Policies that benefit their industry masters at the EXPENSE of regular Americans, like CAFE, all seem to get passed over and left in place. And when American cars get too expensive to be competitive, they just pass tariffs to eliminate the competition. It's a big club, and you aren't in it.

This is an odd phenomenon I am seeing this year.  If the Trump administration hasn't ended or called for the end of a specific law, that means they support it and they are the root of all evil. 

This originated with a Bush Sr. law.  It was a bad idea then and it is a bad idea now.

[230RN]

This all reminds me of one of Ayn Rand's characters on Law:
 
-------------------------------
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
-------------------------------

I'm not the only one who cherishes the notion that for any law to pass, you have to repeal two.

Terry, 230RN

[JTHunter]

After reading this, it makes me glad that I still have my 2008 Ford Ranger 4L V6.  I just replaced the ORIGINAL tires last month that still had a fair amount of tread but also "dry rot" on the sidewalls.   
Oh yeah, the truck only has a little over 10K miles on it. 

[AZRedhawk44]

I'm going this weekend to examine a 1994 Chevy Suburban 1500.  5.7L V8, RWD.  This one is immaculate if its pictures are to be believed.  213K miles.

I have a friend with a '95 one of these, 4WD.  Evidently the 94's have throttle body fuel injection while the 95's went to port injection and got a lot more power as a result, but it's an easy upgrade to do to a 94.

It's going to be SWMBO's daily driver and we're probably going to get rid of the '14 Subaru that is giving us grief.