Author Topic: Sig Sauer XM-7 review  (Read 213 times)

MillCreek

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Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« on: May 08, 2025, 09:59:59 AM »
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-sig-sauer-xm7/

I would be interested to hear the opinions of our forum experts on this.

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dogmush

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2025, 10:46:25 AM »
I will not claim to be an expert, but I did get an opportunity to put some mags through an XM7 at a Best Warrior competition two years ago.  My thoughts:

The gun is heavy.  That's a true statement.

The mags are lower cap, and heavy (duh, it's a /308-adjecent round).  True.  I think the UBL issue is overblown, because IME overseas NO ONE just carried 7 mags.  From my POGs on the boat who had literally 1000s of rounds on hand, to the truck drivers in HMMWV's who had spare backpacks of loaded mags in the truck, to 11B's who carried another 10-15 mags in their assault pack.Soldiers always go for more ammo when given a choice.  7 Mags per soldier is just a number picked for baseline planning, not a doctrine.  Soldiers will balance ammo load vs. weight.

The XM7 as a system, including the optic and fire control system is extraordinarily easy to make first round hits with at 250-600yds.  Significantly better than an M4 or M16A4.  It's a little harder to make fast hits with at the 10-100 yd range.  Which is more important is an open question.

I don't think there are any real issues with the XM7 as a rifle that holds up.  The MCX has been around long enough we'd know if barrels were gouging in 2000 rds.  .277 Fury isn't (IMO) all THAT more violent on the gun than .308.

Without reading his Bio, I question a random O3's expertise to be making sweeping doctrine judgments.  Perhaps he's relaying what crusty NCO's in the 101st told him, or perhaps not.

Finally: I like that we are suppressing the XM7.  If we do decide to drop it, I hope that we at least by a bunch of suppressors for our M4s.  Heck, I hope we do that anyway. 

cordex

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2025, 11:01:22 AM »
.277 Fury isn't (IMO) all THAT more violent on the gun than .308.
You don't think so?  You've got way more experience than me, but I'd think that the difference in pressure alone would cause significantly more wear.

Bogie

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2025, 11:19:57 AM »
I don't think that there is any sort of "one gun fits all" solution.
 
In the boonies, you want something that can reach out there.
 
In an urban area, your furthest shot is likely to be 200 yards or so.
 
I'm seeing rifles vs. subguns at play...
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K Frame

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2025, 11:31:55 AM »
"I don't think that there is any sort of "one gun fits all" solution."

That hasn't stopped the military for searching for that for decades.

The US military has invested billions of dollars in the mythical quest for The One Grand Unified Weapon System.

Sure, those entrants have been absolutely great at some things, but at other things they're a dismal failure.

Yet that hasn't stopped the military's search for the weapons system that will be lightweight, rugged, essentially foolproof mechanically, require little care and maintenance, capable of being used in roles ranging from submachine gun to sniper rifle to squad automatic weapon, fire a lightweight cartridge, fire a cartridge with very little felt recoil, fire a cartridge that delivers devastating ballistic impact from the muzzle to 1000+ meters.

The list goes on and on, with each "absolute must have" requirement of The One Grand Unified Weapon System being more and more mutually exclusive, impractical, and completely impossible to achieve.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2025, 12:24:33 PM »
I guess I just don’t understand if they want a larger round why not a .308 rifle, well established cartridge, plenty of different rifles fire it, and it’s a great service rifle cartridge if 5.56 doesn’t quite do it.

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K Frame

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2025, 01:09:01 PM »
.308?

That teeny, tiny, subcaliber wussy round that can't do nuttin?

This countrys been going to hell since we gave up on the .58 Allin!

It kicks too hard. The ammo's too heavy! Goddamned pansyboys...

:rofl:
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dogmush

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2025, 02:51:56 PM »
You don't think so?  You've got way more experience than me, but I'd think that the difference in pressure alone would cause significantly more wear.

I don't *think* so, but I'm not a SME in this area.  Spit balling, and assuming Sig did even a little engineering (  ;/ ) I would not be surprised to see barrel life drop from ~20,000 on an M4 to like ~13,000-15,000 rds on an XM7.  I'd be pretty shocked by noticeable wear at 2k. 

Also, CPT Good Idea Fairy didn't report throat or gas port erosion (signs of wear on a high pressure barrel) he reported "gouges" in the rifling he could see just by looking down the barrel with his naked eye.  That strikes me as unlikely, or the result of misuse by an operator.  This is Sig we're talking about, so maybe they spec'ed the barrel out of 7075T6 aluminum. (Barrel Life: It Ends Today"  But I'd like to see some more evidence or even a single picture before I swallow that.

I guess I just don’t understand if they want a larger round why not a .308 rifle, well established cartridge, plenty of different rifles fire it, and it’s a great service rifle cartridge if 5.56 doesn’t quite do it.

Because they wanted that performance out of an SBR.  7.62 can't do that.  6.8 is faster out of the XM7 than 7.62 is out of a 20" barrel, and has a better BC, so it stays accurate and fast out to the useful ranges of the optic and targeting system.

cordex

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2025, 03:53:10 PM »
I don't *think* so, but I'm not a SME in this area.  Spit balling, and assuming Sig did even a little engineering (  ;/ ) I would not be surprised to see barrel life drop from ~20,000 on an M4 to like ~13,000-15,000 rds on an XM7.  I'd be pretty shocked by noticeable wear at 2k. 
When I was learning to reload, .22-250 was the round everyone saw as absurdly high pressure and something to be hyper careful with.  I think about people relatively quickly burning out .22-250 barrels at 80% of the pressure of the .277 Fury and I figure it has to be rough on the gun. 

Granted, I'm sure most of the .22-250 lore I grew up on is based on older barrel technology (not nitrided, etc), and a varmint shooter is going to have much higher standards for their barrel than the military when it comes to defining "shot out", but they are tacking on another 20% on top of .22-250 pressure and putting it in an automatic platform.

dogmush

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2025, 05:06:01 PM »
To be clear, I'm not a slavering XM-7 fan.  It's OK.  It's a step forward (IMO) from a .308 battle rifle because it gets all of or more of the "longer range, higher energy on target" positives in a shorter, lighter, handier package than a .308.  Combined with the optics and targeting it makes for pretty solid increased lethality of well trained troops.

That said, it is still, basically, a battle rifle and that means it's many of the things we went to an intermediate cartridge carbine to avoid.  Bigger, heaver, recoils more, ammo is heaver and bigger (so you carry less of it).  Do we need that capability in the force?  Dunno.  Maybe.


One thing to think on:  I took a class with Sidewinder Concepts last year and Adrian was talking about the need for most people to get batter with their rifles.  He espoused his belief that 300yds and in was effectively CQB range.  This is why:  I can take an M4 or an AK, bone stock, and any average 14 year old in the world, and in a week train them to be capable of hitting a man size target at 300 yds 50% or so of the time.  I don't need to train them on ballistics, or drop, or any of that "shooter" *expletive deleted*it.  A battlesight zero and a decent rest and they'll hit a torso at 300.  So it follows that if you are on a two way range and you are within 300yds of the enemy you are probably in THEIR range.  Hence CQB.  Ideally you want your team (people, weapons, ammo, optics, all of it together) to be able to effectively engage the enemy BEFORE you are in their range.  With modern mass production of small arms, that means more than 300 yds.  So if you are training for a two way range, you should have, and be able to use, a weapons system that allows PID and effective engagement from 600yds and in, or more.

Now, obviously for a civilian, where Rule of Law is still a thing, other considerations take over.  Also Adrian is a qualified Sniper, and brings that mindset to battle, but his reasoning gives me food for thought, and I think is relevant to modern armies.  We are integrating new and better ISR assets to find and ID the enemy farther out, we are dealing with better systems integration on both sides, and we are gearing up to fight people that actually train, unlike the screaming beards of the GWOT.  One of the US's advantages for years has been that we throw money and tech at the problem instead of bodies, and the idea of extending the lethality range of the standard infantryman out to 700yds-800yds allowing the whole squad to leverage the increased coms and sensors we are also fielding is not a bad idea.  Much better to shoot them before they have the ability to shoot you.

Is the XM7 the weapon to do that?  Will we actually manage to field the sensors, coms and weapons to allow it? Will we actually manage to train the Close Combat Force to that standard? Will our next war be fought in underground tunnels at SMG distance?  I dunno about any of that, but extending our lethality isn't a BAD idea, on it's face.

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2025, 09:55:18 PM »
Mag capacity an issue?  Don't make me laugh.  That's a function of the magazine, not the rifle.  After all, the M-16 was originally put in service with 20 round mags.  Give MagPul a couple of these SIG rifles, and they'll have a 25-30 round mag available within a year or so.
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dogmush

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2025, 06:10:28 AM »

K Frame

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2025, 07:07:46 AM »
IIRC the current standard 7.62 NATO round weighs about 390 grains.

Multiply that by 50, divide by 7,000 and I'm getting an ammo weight of about 2.75 pounds.

Add in maybe the same for the drum, and you're looking at between 5 and 6 pounds fully loaded?

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Boomhauer

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Re: Sig Sauer XM-7 review
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2025, 07:23:39 AM »
Mag capacity an issue?  Don't make me laugh.  That's a function of the magazine, not the rifle.  After all, the M-16 was originally put in service with 20 round mags.  Give MagPul a couple of these SIG rifles, and they'll have a 25-30 round mag available within a year or so.

Already uses SR-25 pattern mags according to Wiki.
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