Author Topic: Porn, morons from the FRC, and YOU.  (Read 7972 times)

Guest

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Porn, morons from the FRC, and YOU.
« on: June 02, 2005, 03:20:50 PM »
I just listened to some slavering moron named Patrick from the 'FRC' on some radio station.

You are, I trust, familiar with George Soros? Patrick would do well to compare notes, because his way of demonizing porn is very similar to Georgyworgy. I nearly yelled back at the radio.

In this post 'pornographers' refers to operators of adult websites.

Basically he believes the following:

That pornographers target YOUR children.
That pornographers want to expose children to porn.
That child pornography is intertwined with the adult film industry.
That pornographers were the first people to make money on the internet by 'cutting costs'.
That pornographers will not all move to the .xxx domain because they want to stay on .com so kids can find it.
That the .xxx domain will make it easier for kids to find porn.
That you should report and take action against websites which may popup from your internet surfing if your child sees them.
That federal obscenity laws should be enforced against all pornographers to drive them out of business.
That community standards should be used against online porn.
That Ashcroft was soft on porn and didn't enforce laws against it.
That asset seizure is a valuable tool against pornographic websites and should be used.
That the new attorney general is going to do something about this.

....I have never ever wanted to shred someone into verbally dysfunctional pieces in a debate ever so much before. The sheer bass ackwards mindless porn hate, the absolute insanity of what they want to do and what it will lead to..

At least he didn't say that porn creates child molestors.

Now, the part you've all been waiting for: my witty commentary.


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pornographers target YOUR children.
No we don't. And yes, I said we. I operate a mildly pornographic website with which I hope to put myself through college. It's more of an adult meeting place, but still. I'm going to be a victim if this lunatic with a power complex gets any of his wishes. Some of my best clients (general IT and webdev consulting) are adult websites. The adult industry does not want children in it's websites. CHILDREN DO NOT SIGN UP FOR MEMBERSHIPS. Children do NOT HAVE MONEY, and don't try to use kids with credit cards as a red herring because by god, the 3% or so of kids that do have them wouldn't be worth targetting them all.

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pornographers want to expose children to porn.
No we don't.


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That child pornography is intertwined with the adult film industry.
BULLPUCKY. Child porn tends to be isolated communities of sick people sharing pictures online. There isn't much of an online child porn industry left, thanks to the fact that all it takes is three or four guys to get together and start making people's lives miserable. The attacks on Al-Jazeera that I participated in when they showed footage of our soldiers being dragged in the streets had almost no formal planning at all, and it's easy to plan things. Basically, one seamy side of the net really likes making the other seamy side bend over and say daddy. The child porn 'industry' is comprised of people who would do anything illegal that makes a buck, not legit porn makers, and it's mostly offline in dark little rooms in vegas now.


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pornographers were the first people to make money on the internet by 'cutting costs'.
Not by cutting costs. By innovating and developing new things. You can thank porn sites for most of the advances on the internet. Including new image standards, streaming audio and video, and more. Without the money and innovation from porn, we'd still be at the level of 1997 era internet. Like it or not, but hackers built the internet, and porn sites made it take off, bolstering it with cash and development.

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pornographers will not all move to the .xxx domain because they want to stay on .com so kids can find it.
Who says the point of the .xxx domain is to shuffle all the porn sites to it, like indiands to a reservation? It's a new block of webspace that will see fierce competition for real estate. It'll also be incredibly easy to filter out.

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the .xxx domain will make it easier for kids to find porn.
No it won't. Kids will always be able to find it if they want it- much like alchohol and weed. Parents should be parents and not expect everyone else to do their job for them.

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you should report and take action against websites which may popup from your internet surfing if your child sees them.
That is just incredibly naive and stupid. Install a freaking internet filter.

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federal obscenity laws should be enforced against all pornographers to drive them out of business.
This would set a dangerous precedent which I will touch on later. And what do you think will happen if we drive porn sites out of business?

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community standards should be used against online porn.
Bad bad precedent to keep following. Besides, it's the INTERNET. Just because it's available to be viewed anywhere doesn't mean you should enforce the laws of the areas it can be viewed in against the creators. In that case I would expect that you could execute me since my subversive web content is viewable in Islamic nations.

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Ashcroft was soft on porn and didn't enforce laws against it.
Ashcroft, who gave us the odious patriot acts and spent incredible amounts of taxpayer money to cover up statues he found obscene, was soft on porn? I think he was just barely wise enough to know he didn't want to commit political suicide after the patriot acts.

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asset seizure is a valuable tool against pornographic websites and should be used.
You must be joking. Encouraging asset seizure?!

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the new attorney general is going to do something about this.
If he does, it's going to have severe repercussions down the road. Let me explain.


The dangerous precedent I referred to is thus. Should we start enforcing laws- laws which should be enforced with intelligence and not as part of a moral crusade- against pornographic websites, then the stage is set for anyone who makes political speech online to be taken down for violations of the absolutely repulsive mcain-feingold 'reform' act.


I should not have to explain why that is not a good thing.

And if that precedent is set, we are all screwed. It will become used as a tool of choice for intimidation and attack by both sides. I might drop the F-bomb a few times on one of the articles on my personal website and find myself in court in the town of Bumblefark, West Virginia, population 112, because I ticked off some jackals on a leftist site. Or maybe I criticized Hillary Clinton on it a few weeks before election time. I could then face loss of my house, car, and financial assets in either situation. Wow, nice. Ooh, your website criticizes the government? Or criticizes the FRC? Maybe it's a page of guns. Hm, that could promote violence- better take your house.

Our country is drifting toward a total loss of freedoms with the propellers idling.
This Patrick wants to redline those props and send us there at Mach 2.

Further, what will happen when we drive porn sites out of the US? Precisely nothing constructive- they'll still exist, just based out of Canada and the Netherlands and other countries. Now what are you going to do- filter the routers of the United States to keep porn out? Well, maybe you would have had a snowball's chance in hell of getting that done except most of the US based datacenters and webhosts will be facing a crashing market due to the loss of their biggest and best customers. Good job, we might face a full on recession. The porn sites won't mind a whole lot- aside from the inconveniances of relocating to another country, they'll continue on as usual- spending their money somewhere other than here.

I can't type anymore. I'm getting too mad.

Guest

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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2005, 04:12:17 PM »
Wah.

spacemanspiff

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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2005, 04:39:10 PM »
auuuuuhhhhhhhhggggggggggggggggg! porn will be flowing in the streets if they let the .xxx domains be used!
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Gun Runner

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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2005, 04:48:15 PM »
Patrick?

Ronald Reagan?

George Bush?

Bob Dole?

Right-Wing Conservative Christian Control Freaks?  (RWCCCP)

Yes, all of the above.
"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell, and I stood there all by myself" - III

Sergeant Bob

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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2005, 04:53:18 PM »
You are getting awfully upset over what "some moron named Patrick" (from the Family Research Council) said. What would you expect from a religious group?
Hey, guess what, the Pope doesn't think much of your business either.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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Gun Runner

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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2005, 05:10:13 PM »
What's "the pope"?  Some porn grabber organization I assume?
"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell, and I stood there all by myself" - III

The Rabbi

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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2005, 05:23:08 PM »
The Internet is about the free and instantaneous exchange of ideas and information.  The medium itself creates that, it isnt a mission statement somewhere.  Thus any attempt to thwart that (e.g. tax) will fail anyway and is a bad idea.  I dont like a lot of what is there and in a perfect society I'd like to see pornographers shipped off to an island somewhere.  But this is far from perfect and I see better avenues for action.

Besides, they cant even regulate spam, how are they going to do that with porn?
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2005, 05:35:09 PM »
I remember reading some article where the US Postal Inspection Service shut down an...uhh...interesting (okay...disgusting) porn site. Their grounds were that it was "obscene". Now I'm definitely not a porn fan but establishing precedents such as this are completely idiotic. So then anything a US Postal Inspector deems is obscene can land a conviction? I'm pretty sure in this case the porn people were convicted. It is definitely a slippery slope.

Ron

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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2005, 05:35:53 PM »
The noble pornographers looking out for our civil rights!  lol

Standing Wolf

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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2005, 07:10:43 PM »
Quote
That asset seizure is a valuable tool against pornographic websites and should be used.
More and more statist parasites are jumping on the "asset seizure" band wagon: they've discovered it's one of the more effective ways to bully and intimidate people.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

jefnvk

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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 07:17:31 PM »
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That pornographers will not all move to the .xxx domain because they want to stay on .com so kids can find it.
That the .xxx domain will make it easier for kids to find porn.
Don't those two not work together?

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you should report and take action against websites which may popup from your internet surfing if your child sees them.
I have yet to see a porn window pop up without actually venturing into that area of the net.

BTW, congress can do what it wishes, but the fact remains that WWW stands for World Wide Web for a reason.  It can regulate American servers, but it can't touch anything outside America.  Even trying to block America's access to any external servers would be hit by civil rights groups so fast, they wouldn't do it.  If that server in Russia is hosting kiddie porn, the best they can hope to do is to make it illegal to view while in America.
I still say 'Give Detroit to Canada'

RevDisk

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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2005, 08:12:43 PM »
Quote from: GoRon
The noble pornographers looking out for our civil rights!  lol
Freedom has unlikely bedfellows.  

At times I see pornographers being more moral and ethical than a lot of the religious wackos.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Guest

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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2005, 12:02:54 AM »
Comparing this "Patrick" to George Soros is ridiculous. Patrick, so far as I can tell, is not a goverment agency, he's a private citizen who thinks pornographers are aholes. And as far as I can determine, he's not a billionaire spending his fortune to make sure you can't look at pictures of naked women.

I'd never support making adult pornography illegal, but I think porn makers are scum.

stevelyn

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« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2005, 12:26:13 AM »
What else would you expect from the Christo-fascists? rolleyes
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Ron

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« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2005, 03:34:41 AM »
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At times I see pornographers being more moral and ethical than a lot of the religious wackos.
The righteous pornagraghers battling the evil christo-fascists on behalf of the common man.  lol

Talk about putting lipstick on a pig.

roo_ster

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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2005, 06:52:10 AM »
This "Patrick" fellow advocates some things I could not support, such as assest forfiture similar to the War on Some Drugs (I will take Blackburn's word for "Pat's" talking points).

I think it would be much better to just institute some good, old-fashioned social ostracism and discrimination on such unsavory types.  Refuse to associate with them socially.  Refuse to do business with them.  Speechify against them in public and do one's best to get them run out of town on a rail, rotten tomatoes & all.  Make sure everybody knows just what kind of perv lives down the street.  If the above is unsuccessful in running Pornboy outta town, a re-evaluation of the town's values relative to the instigators' might be in order.  Maybe Pornboy is representative of the town's values.

Truly, some of the porn, in the form of spyware, comes looking.  My dad's WinXP box was rotten with spyware.  He had not installed SP2, had no anti-spyware SW installed, & only had an out of date version of MacAfee anti-virus.  I was tempted to wipe his disk clean & start over, but instead first installed a firewall to see just what the malware was downloading.  One of the malwares was hijacking his home page with a porno page & others opened up numerous pop-up windows with similar trash.  I gawked at where my dad had been surfing & none of the sites was pornographic, but my dad's surfing regimen was untrained, he had been using IE, and the folks who set up his computer had given him admin privelidges.  I ended up cleaning up his machine & locking it down, to include:
4 anti-spyware programs
2 anti-virus programs*
2 firewalls*, one of which was helpful in tracking down the last few recalcitrant bits of spyware none of the anti-spyware tools managed to nail.

* I am aware of the potential pitfalls.   I tested their interoperation and found that they did not step on each others' toes.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Nightfall

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« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2005, 08:33:01 AM »
Quote
The adult industry does not want children in it's websites. CHILDREN DO NOT SIGN UP FOR MEMBERSHIPS. Children do NOT HAVE MONEY...
Reminds me of some extreme anti-gun folk claiming the gun industry was trying to target children. Because children love to drop $1k on that cool AR15 they had their eye on. rolleyes

On a seperate note, I don't get why people hate porn so much. Outside of religious reasoning, can anybody explain to me why porn and pornographers are EVIL? I just don't get it.
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grampster

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« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2005, 09:20:10 AM »
Barbara,
+1!
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Ron

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« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2005, 01:09:27 PM »
For the record I am not "anti porn".

Do I think it is too easily accessible, yes.

I think the idea of a internet red light district makes a lot of sense.

Protecting naturually curious children from images that they have no business seeing is the moraly right thing to do whether you are religious or not.

brimic

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« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2005, 01:35:46 PM »
To sum up the whole topic:

Pornographer: "your a wild eyed Jesus Freak"
Cristian: "Your a dirty smut peddler"

Round and round they go.....
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Strings

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« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2005, 03:58:44 PM »
I have GOT to weight in with Nightfall here. Please, by all means, someone explain why pornographers are so evil...

 I'm not talking about child pornography, or some of the "fringe hardcore" (like sunff films). I'm refering to the garden variety person with a website of pics. Quite often, they're selling themselves... and making a good living at it. What, exactly, is wrong with that?

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2005, 04:52:25 PM »
Barbara and Grampster -- +1.


"On a seperate note, I don't get why people hate porn so much. Outside of religious reasoning, can anybody explain to me why porn and pornographers are EVIL? I just don't get it."

Just as our ability to manipulate medicine and technology has begun to outdistance our ability to deal with the moral and ethical ramifications, this question has gotten increasingly more difficult to answer in a free society.

Your freedoms end where mine begin; in other words, you are free to swing your fists any way you choose until they land on my nose.

Similar to that, but FAR more difficult to legislate, is the internet porn situation.

For a thoughtful answer to the original question, I would encourage a reading of the Ted Bundy interview the night before his execution.  You can see the whole interview here: http://www.totse.com/en/law/high_profile_legal_cases/thelastintervi169246.html

or, here's an excerpt:
Ted: Before we go any further, it is important to me that people believe what I'm saying. I'm not blaming pornography. I'm not saying it caused me to go out and do certain things. I take full responsibility for all the things that I've done. That's not the question here. The issue is how this kind of literature contributed and helped mold and shape the kinds of violent behavior.

JCD: It fueled your fantasies.

Ted: In the beginning, it fuels this kind of thought process. Then, at a certain time, it is instrumental in crystallizing it, making it into something that is almost a separate entity inside.

JCD: You had gone about as far as you could go in your own fantasy life, with printed material, photos, videos, etc., and then there was the urge to take that step over to a physical event.

Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is harder and gives you a greater sense of excitement, until you reach the point where the pornography only goes so far.

Ted: Once you become addicted to it, and I look at this as a kind of addiction, you look for more potent, more explicit, more graphic kinds of material. Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is harder and gives you a greater sense of excitement, until you reach the point where the pornography only goes so far - that jumping off point where you begin to think maybe actually doing it will give you that which is just beyond reading about it and looking at it.

JCD: How long did you stay at that point before you actually assaulted someone?

grampster

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« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2005, 05:32:54 PM »
Human beings are capable of virtualy any kind of behavior.  History bears this out. There is magnificent behavior as well as coarse behavior.  There is gallantry and slavish butchery.  I think that there resides in all people the ability to discern the difference.  Whether one is willing to admit that one has that ability, of course, is a matter of personal decision.  Further, having free will, and living in a free society, one can choose the behavior that suits one.  Ramifications follow choices.
 
 The question to me, is not necessarily about porn.  It goes beyond that.  It is about the willingness of a free man having free will to subscribe himself to activities that would not embarass him in the presence of Art's Grammaw.  That he can engage in  activities that would cause her to strike him with her cane are less important than  what he knows in his heart of hearts.  It is important to know one's self.

Freedom to me, is more about attempting to rise above that which I know to be less than what I can be.  I would never attempt to force my beliefs on anyone.  Rather I would be content to live my life after a fashion, insofar as is possible, at peace with my neighbor.

  I have always been amused by the notion that the definition of freedom is the defense of the coarse and low aspects of Man.  That we cannot be free unless we accept or at least tolerate that which we know does not have much redeeming value other than physical gratification has perplexed me.  Those among us defend pornography, but rail against the notion that others are equally as free to be disgusted by it.  Irony?  Why can't freedom also be to aspire to the higher nature of Man, to seek the light rather than darkness?
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2005, 05:46:13 PM »
Grampster...

Wow.  Thank you.  I am moved and want to nominate that as the single best post EVER (so far) on APS.

Thanks again.
Ben/ Felonious Monk/ Fignozzle

Nightfall

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« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2005, 07:45:32 PM »
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Just as our ability to manipulate medicine and technology has begun to outdistance our ability to deal with the moral and ethical ramifications
Don't want to veer this off-topic, but how?

Okay, so porn fueled the fantasies of Ted Bundy. I've read of multiple cases where video games and regular ol' movies "fueled" similar behavior from other unbalanced or mentally underdeveloped people. This isn't a case unique to pornographic entertainment. A disturbed mind can be easily influenced by many forms of media that arouses various emotions.
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Those among us defend pornography, but rail against the notion that others are equally as free to be disgusted by it.
Who here has stated or implied that you're not free to be disgusted by porn?
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That we cannot be free unless we accept or at least tolerate that which we know does not have much redeeming value other than physical gratification has perplexed me.
Not everybody agrees that porn has no redeeming values outside of physical gratification. I can think of several ways that pornography can be beneficial mentally or emotionally.
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