Rudolph Giuliani Knifed

[m1911owner]

I guess that should be spelled, "NYFD'd", but it obviously wants to be pronounced "knifed."  For comparison, see "Swift Boated."

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_192162447.html

(CBS) NEW YORK The International Association of Firefighters has gone on the offensive against "America's Mayor" Rudy Giuliani, releasing a 13-minute video that viciously rips into the former New York mayor, who has been using his leadership demonstrated on September 11th to urge people around the country to support him in his quest to become President of the United States.

The video, released early Wednesday evening, is titled "Rudy Giuliani: Urban Legend," and offers testimonials from various members of the organization and family members of firefighters lost in the terror attacks.

We have the remains of dead heroes at the garbage dump because of Giuliani and his administration and theyre still there today and they wont remove them, claims FDNY Deputy Chief Jim Riches on the DVD, which was released to CBS 2 HD before its public debut.

Whenever I hear him talk, I want to scream out to the world and say God hes so full of it, adds Rosaleen Tallon, who lost her brother in the attacks.

...

[RevDisk]

I guess that should be spelled, "NYFD'd", but it obviously wants to be pronounced "knifed."  For comparison, see "Swift Boated."

From what I understand, the comm equipment thing was a legitimate gripe.  Actually, in the AAR's I read of the first WTC bombing, radios were an issue then. 

EVERYONE knew of the OEM issue.  You're going to stick a command center in the biggest target in the entire city, along with tons of gallons of diesel for the backup gens?  I don't think they even meantioned the generator thing in the video. 

[Cromlech]

We have the remains of dead heroes at the garbage dump because of Giuliani and his administration and theyre still there today and they wont remove them, claims FDNY Deputy Chief Jim Riches on the DVD, which was released to CBS 2 HD before its public debut.

Please tell me that's not actually true.

[K Frame]

Given how badly some of the bodies were mangled, I'm sure that it is, to some degree, true.

The implication is, however, that whole corpses were simply loaded into the trucks with debris and carted off to the landfill.

I think that's an irresponsible and inflamatory statement that simply can't be supported by the known facts.

[RevDisk]

We have the remains of dead heroes at the garbage dump because of Giuliani and his administration and theyre still there today and they wont remove them, claims FDNY Deputy Chief Jim Riches on the DVD, which was released to CBS 2 HD before its public debut.

Please tell me that's not actually true.

Basically, at first, debris was sifted for possible human remains.  Of which there was plenty, not cremated either.  Eventually, this was stopped for whatever reason and they started directly dumping the debris without any further searching.  The debris was dumped at the Fresh Kills Landfill on Staten Island.  No, I swear I'm not making the name up.   

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/fkl/fkl4.shtml

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/fkl/fkl_index.shtml

[Cromlech]

In the words of my generation - that's super-weak.

[280plus]

Now, I'm not trying to defend Guliani or anything but it so happens I applied to help sift debris from the site, a job which to the best of my knowledge, remains unfinished today. So I have a teeny bit of insight on that. From what I understand there were areas of debris or fill, whatever, that had been declared free of human remains and some was removed and some remained onsite to become part of the rebuild, particulary a ramp for vehicles to gain access to the bottom of the hole. Well, when they went to remove this ramp as a next step in construction they found it did in fact contain human remains and personal effects. This was at least a couple years after the site had been declared remains free. Anyhow, I can't offer ANY info on what may or may not have found it's way to any landfill but I DO know that the mountain of debris that was still on site was removed to a facility in Brooklyn. There's been a big ongoing battle concerning how long it's taking to sift this out and that's when the call went out to surrounding archeological organizations for people with sifting experience AND a degree. Me, I submitted a resume to the NYC medical examiner's office several months ago and never heard back. I can only assume at this point that my meager experience and non related degree were not enough for them to consider me. FYI, the job site is treated as a HAZMAT site and to work there you get suited up, fitted for a respirator by the city, and do the whole NBC decontamination thing every day. The job pays $20 per hour DOE and they offered no break on travel expenses into the city so really they weren't (aren't) offering much to the kind of people they're looking for to get the job done.

The biggest bone fragment found to date (or last I heard) in the newfound debris pile measured only 4" long. A vast amount of ALL the human remains ended up microscopic in size making it virtually impossible to separate out EVERY bit of human remains. So you can pretty much be assured that ANY debris leaving the site and going to any landfill contained SOME human remains.

[RevDisk]

I suppose it would have been too much to dump all of the debris, minus "stuff" for labs or museums, in one place and designate it a cemetary for the thousand odd folks whom no genetic material was located.  If you wanted to be productive, make it a nice park.  I'm not extremely sensitive towards corpses due to my religious beliefs, but I do think tossing folks in with the trash is a bit low. 

Especially if you want to campaign on being super patriotic and all, it seems like a bad political move to make.  Betcha an ice cold Mtn Dew that folks who cheered for the Swift Boat folks will decry the NYFD'ing/knifing.

[m1911owner]

I probably should have quoted more of the article.  I didn't really intend to be highlighting that particular accusation against Giuliani; I just copied the first few paragraphs of the article so there would be more than just a link to the story.

Mostly, I was intriqued by the connection between "NYFD'd" and "knifed".

I note that Giuliani has more recently referred to the firemen's union's activities as an attempt to "Swift Boat" him.

[280plus]

You mean I wrote all that for nothing? 

 

[ilbob]

Why do I suspect there is more to this story than meets the eye? I have to wonder who put them up to this and who is funding it, and why?

[RevDisk]

Why do I suspect there is more to this story than meets the eye? I have to wonder who put them up to this and who is funding it, and why?

There is and isn't.  The IAFF (firefighter union) is both behind it and funding said DVD.  If you are pro-union, it's because Giuliani screwed over the NYFD multiple times and is cashing in on their sacrifice to get votes.   If you are anti-union, it's because NYFD/IAFF wants revenge for not getting as much funding as they wanted during their 15 minutes of fame.  etc, etc.

In my humble opinion, both are correct. 

As a commo guy, I was severely appaulled at the lack of testing/competition for the radio contract after the first WTC bombing.  If you've never worked in the military, police, EMS, fire, or any other line of work were your life depends on your radio, you will not understand the significance.  I remember my first introduction to a real radio.  "Gentleman, this is the most powerful weapons system in the entire US Army inventory.  SINCGARS Delta model radio."  The instructor proceeded to drop it, kick it, pour water all over it, etc.  Then powered it up and joined it to the net.  I've seen military radios dropped off a deuce, dent the concrete and barely scratched the paint on the radio.  The Mayor, comptroller, contract guys and heads of the NYFD should have been immediately sacked for gross negliance for killing several hundred employees because they used the wrong radios. 

[ilbob]

In fairness to all those involved in radio selection decisions, I can absolutely guarantee that NO ONE ever considered what would happen if something along the lines of 9/11 occurred. it was just not in anyone's mindset.

Budgets are limited and you have to make decisions that fit within those budgets. The bottom line is that we survived for years with no radios at all. Police and fire departments have been doing their work with existing radios for a long time and the lack of a perfect radio system has not been a major issue. You also have to remember that many of the fire and police responders who died at the WTC died because they chose to disobey orders and charge in to the fire. thats not a very PC to remind people about those who died, but it does not change the facts any.

Why isn't the union mad at the democrats in congress for their mollycoddling of Islamic terrorists? It was not Rudy who took down the WTC, it was Islamic terrorists. If I had to guess, I suspect either Hillary or Obama's crowd is actually behind this.

[280plus]

WWWWWHAT? Are you trying to say there might be some dirty politics involved in election campaigning? Perish the thought! 

 

Just a teeny followup on my earlier diatribe. Most people don't but SHOULD be made to understand. A large number of the victims and their remains were atomized and literally floated away on the breeze in the plume that spread out over the Bronx which means human remains were scattered in an ever widening pattern from the WTC site, over the East River and well out over Brooklyn, most of it microscopic in size. Given the scale of the event it was/is virtually impossible to ensure that all remains eventually wound up in a proper and respectful place.

[Paddy]

Giuliani is actually pretty slimey.  As mayor of NYC, he performed competently during and after 9/11 so he's Presidential material?

[Sergeant Bob]

Giuliani is actually pretty slimey.  As mayor of NYC, he performed competently during and after 9/11 so he's Presidential material?

Yeah, he didn't screw up so he's a hero.