Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?

[DJJ]

I'm now in my fourth summer being miserable with a swamp cooler that just doesn't get it done, even under the best conditions, so I'm thinking of going to refrigerated. Has anybody ever made the switch in an existing house? I have a gas furnace with ducting (which the swamp cooler also blows into), which works fine.

Could I keep the furnace, or would I have to change everything out? How much might something like this cost? Manufacturers and dealers are very tight-lipped when it comes to a number (wonder why?).

[Ron]

Where in the country are you?

How old is the furnace?

How many square feet is your house and what is the input BTU of your furnace?

There are a couple residential HVAC guys here who might be able to point you in the right direction. I'm strictly commercial.

[DJJ]

Albuquerque, NM (hot and dry - which is why swamp cooling SHOULD work).

Everything installed new in 7-04.

2100 sf, 2 story, and it's either 125,000 Btu/hr or 125.000 (kind of dark in there).

[Ron]

Off the top of my head I don't see why you couldn't have an A coil and condensing unit hooked up to the existing system.

Your blower motor should be big enough to move the right amount of air. If so I can't see why you would have to replace it other than upgrading to newer technology and better efficiency.

You will have two choices if the furnace doesn't have a strong enough blower motor for the A/C load of the house.

You can install an A/C system matched to your furnace that would probably work fine on all except the hottest days.

You can install a whole new system that is matched to your houses load properly.

This all assumes the ductwork is sized properly.

I know that wasn't much help, but the residential guys might make it easier for you.

[Sindawe]

Do you have any exhaust fans to pull the hot air out while the swamp cooler is pushing the cool moist air in?  Where is the cool air coming into the house?  Upper floor or lower?

[DJJ]

This all assumes the ductwork is sized properly.

Ha. Based on everything else I've seen, I doubt the builder made the slightest effort at tuning/sizing anything properly.

Exhaust fans? No.

Where is...? Ducts all throughout the house, both floors, coming out through the ceilings.

[Ron]

As an aside I really enjoyed my stay in the Albuquerque area this spring. I was in Tejaras for a spell before my backpacking trip in The Gila Wilderness.

Here is a link to the thread about my trip.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=6984.0

[Antibubba]

Do you have an unused space that is 4' X 6' X 8'?  Because you're going to have to have one that sized to fill with money in anticipation of your electric bills.

[Moondoggie]

You have to change the pads on your swamp cooler pretty much every season.  If Albq water is anything like the crap we had in Yuma, AZ, your pads are clogged with the residue that remains when the water evaporates.  Changing the pads is cheap and easy and will restore your swamp cooler to brand new performance.  Also check that your water tubes aren't clogged and that they are wetting the pads evenly/thouroughly.

Also, you have to open windows on the opposite side of your home from the ingress of cooled ari for the air to escape to the outside.  The principle of the swamp cooler is for massive cfm's to move freely through and out of the house for it to work properly.

Hope that helps.

As far as switching to refer A/C...get several estimates.  I'd take a guess that you're looking at at least $3-4K...plus the mega power bills that go along with it.

[charby]

Albuquerque, New Mexico going humid?

[Ron]

Albuquerque, New Mexico going humid?

sprinklers and golf courses

[RocketMan]

Make sure your pump(s) and piping work.  New pads before every season.  Clean out the trays above each pad where the water flows out over the pads.
Clean the crap out of the bottom of the swamp cooler before every season.
Upducts in the ceilings of every room that has a duct into it.  (Eliminates the need to open windows.)
Doesn't work well during the monsoon season, which I assume you have like we did years ago when I lived in Phoenix.  Too humid.
Even if everything works properly, swamp coolers never get to the level of A/C or heat pump cooled air for comfort in my experience.

[roo_ster]

Heck, I'd like to add a swamp cooler on to my traditional AC/furnace HVAC system.  The hottest months in Dallas are also the driest, most years (July, AUG, SEP).

What would a swamp cooler good for 1300sqft run?

[Art Eatman]

Maintenance.  Swamp coolers are NOT something you turn on/turn off and otherwise ignore.

Check the pads.  There shouldn't be much buildup of evaporated mineral deposits, but it's likely that there are.  Pads are about $2 each at Ace Hardware or True Value.  measure; they come in different sizes.  The excelsior rolls of the proper width are better, generally, as they are a bit thicker and hold more water--but you have to cut proper lengths.

Check the "spider" for water flow.  Sometimes you have to take them apart and probe with a straightened-out coat hanger to break loose any grunge that's solidified during the time the unit was shut off.  Flexing the plastic tubes helps break the grunge.

The electric cost for A/C is about four times as much as for a swamp cooler.

Also check the float valve to see that it's not clogged--or the tank wont have water for the little water pump to send to the pads.  And, of course, check the water pump itself.

Hey, learn or sweat:  Your choice.

Art

[K Frame]

I once had a guy tell me that I should get a swamp cooler for my house.

They're great, he said! Work wonderfully!

Only problem is he's in Arizona, and I'm in Washington, DC.

In 24 hours I bet I can pull more moisture out of the air with my dehumidifier than his area of Arizona sees in July and August combined.

[280plus]

I've worked in HVAC for over 30 years but can truthfully say I've never touched a swamp cooler.

[onions!]

In 24 hours I bet I can pull more moisture out of the air with my dehumidifier than his area of Arizona sees in July and August combined.

The only green spot in my yard is under my window A/C.

[Brad Johnson]

In the dry air of AlbuQ a swamp cooler should work pretty well.  Like folks have said, make sure you have good water flow and check your pads.  Also, you know to leave a window or two cracked to allow for circulation, right?

Brad

[DJJ]

I've done all the maintenance things. It's a good thing they're easy to work on, because you have to. And have to. And have to.

I'm willing to pay the price. There's another concern I haven't mentioned yet: sand. It's everywhere here. If you leave your windows open while you're gone for the day, you'll have a layer of red sand in your house. On your kitchen countertops. Everywhere. I'm willing to pay the price so I can leave the windows closed and the AC on, on a programmable thermostat, while I'm gone.

[Art Eatman]

So put in a window unit!  Mine's about 4,000 CFM.  I vent through the bedroom-to-bathroom flow-way; it's on the downwind side of the house.  On low fan, on a hot dry day, I can keep the main living area 30 degrees cooler than outside.  I don't dare leave it on at night, or I'll wake up shivering...

Art

[Moondoggie]

Another thought I forgot earlier...

If you're going to buy a new swamp cooler, do whatever you have to do to purchase a "Tradewinds" or similar brand that's constructed out of polypropoline.....the plastic ones have miniscule maintenance issues compared to the ones made out of sheet metal.

Art, I hear ya!  I used to hate having to walk directly into the freezing wind from my swamp cooler in the middle of the night to get to the switch to turn it off.....BRRRRR!

[DJJ]

I'd love to experience a "Brrrr!" from my swamp cooler. 

But actually, I had considered something similar as another alternative: big, top-of-the-line unit on the roof, and a window unit in the far (upstairs) bedroom exhausting out my bedroom window.

[RocketMan]

DJJ, if you decide to stay with the swamp cooler for awhile, install some up-ducts.  Don't mess with exhausting out the windows.  Close them up.
The cooler air flowing through the up-ducts will also drive hot air out of your attic and drop the temp in your house an additional few degrees.

[Desertdog]

Worked on evaporative (swamp) coolers for 30 years, and the most notorious problem I found was not enough air flow. 

I have a gas furnace with ducting (which the swamp cooler also blows into), which works fine.

The heater duct will not give enough air flow for a swamp cooler but will work for refrigerateda air.  Duct work for an refrigerated air unit will not give enough air flow for a swamp cooler.

Your choices for a remedy will be a window swamp cooler, a swamp cooler that just dumps into one area,  or install seperate ducting for the swamp cooler.
 
You hear people say, "crack your windows."   Cracking your winows will not give near enough air flow.  

For proper cooling with a "swamp" cooler you need to change the air in your house, or room, every 1 1/2 to 2 minutes.    With a ducted swamp cooler you can open windows in different rooms to control the flow for those rooms, if the door is closed, or install upducts in each room.

A house of 1200 sf with 8 ft ceiling has 9600 cubic feet in it.  To exchange the air in 9600 cubic feet space every 2 minutes you would need 4800 CFM cooler.  That is a lot of air to let out of your house, and cracked windows just won't do it.  Exhaust air should be around about 500 CFM per square foot.  An exhaust of air for 4800 CFM would be around 9 sf total exhaust area.  The air will move to where there is an exhaust hole.

I use a 4800 CFM cooler, ducted to all rooms, on my house and I normally open a window in the dining area, right next to the kitchen, that is 34" X 36."  Works great except when the humidity is up around 25% or more.

[DJJ]

DJJ, if you decide to stay with the swamp cooler for awhile, install some up-ducts.  Don't mess with exhausting out the windows.  Close them up. The cooler air flowing through the up-ducts will also drive hot air out of your attic and drop the temp in your house an additional few degrees.

My dad suggested that just today (he's a hardcore swamp cooler man), as a way not only to cool, but to keep the sand out. Sounds like a brilliant idea to me. Will these upducts just go up into the attic space and end (above the insulation, of course)? Would I need to size them for the full 1sf/500cfm? With my square footage, that's 8400 cfm and 17 sqf. Would I also need openings in the attic (to the outside) the same area? I have 2 gable vents about 16" square, which is only 3.5 sqf.

What sort of hardware am I looking at for an upduct? I envision something pretty simple - a louvered vent cover (maybe just a regular duct register), some ducting straight up about 18", and maybe a screen over the top.

Also, I wouldn't be able to put any in the ground floor, but that's probably not a deal breaker, since it's always the upstairs that's the worst.

Does anybody even make an 8400 cfm cooler? My parents have a 7000 cfm Ultracool in their 3000 sf house, and it works real well. Would that be enough?

As for the ducts, what I have is what I have, and I'd bet they're as small as the builder could get away with.

Thanks for the continuing advice.