Author Topic: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?  (Read 8107 times)

Art Eatman

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2007, 04:54:16 PM »
I get away with "too low" CFM from insulation.  I built my house about 30 degrees off north-south, for the view.  2x6 studs on the west and north sides; R-19.  R-30 above the ceiling, with aluminized foam under the tin of the roof.  Double vents on the attic ends.  Full length porch roofs.  

The result is almost no sun load on the walls, and the attic doesn't get much above ambient.

I close off the guest suite, so I'm only really cooling about 800 square feet.  And, I have ceiling fans all over the place, so I can add a bit of breeze if I want.  It's worked fine since October of 1993...

Art
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DJJ

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2007, 05:12:24 PM »
I have an enormous sun load. It's a new development, and I've just started landscaping (and very few of my neighbors have), so there are essentially no trees. The house is brown stucco. It's oriented less than a degree from true N/S/E/W (future archaeologists will go nuts trying to figure out the significance Cheesy ). The master bedroom is on the south face, upstairs, with 2 windows on the south side. I've got blackout shades, and I keep them closed nearly all the time.

Another question - the house proper is a rectangle with gable ends, long dimension N/S. The garage is at the south end of that, sticking out perpendicular, to the east, with a gable end at the front.  The master bedroom has one window on the east side that overlooks the north half of the garage roof. During the day, the garage attic gets murderously hot. Not long ago, I was up there with some hand tools and screws for not more than 15 minutes, and in that time, the tools & screws literally got hot to the touch - that's how hot it gets. So here's the question: is the heat from that attic contributing to the hot upstairs, and particularly the master bedroom (I expect that's a "no duh") - so what can I do about that? There's an uninsulated "gable end" inside the attic where it meets the house.

Desertdog

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2007, 06:30:55 PM »
I am surprised they didn't put in ducting for a swamp cooler as well as refrigerated air.

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As for the ducts, what I have is what I have, and I'd bet they're as small as the builder could get away with.
I really hate to say it agan, but the heater ducts will not be sufficient for a swamp cooler to cool your home.

Maybe a small a small 1 room refrigerated air window unit in your bedroom, or each bedroom, window so you can sleep comfortly.

Check with your local swamp cooler contractors and see if they can figure out a way to use a swamp cooler without going through the present ducts.

I have seen numerous people with this same problem here.

Moondoggie

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2007, 07:08:24 PM »
DJJ....

"They" (somebody) make swamp coolers in any size you would possibly need.  Our aircraft hanger at MCAS, Yuma had 6 huge ones on the roof.  I don't know how many cfm's they were, but they were at least 6' x 6' x 6'.
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Art Eatman

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2007, 07:30:37 AM »
DJJ, these roof-mounted ventilators aren't the prettiest things in the world, but they darned sure work.  And they're not difficult to install.

Is the garage attic vented?  If not, cut holes and screen over.

Heat buldup in the garage attic will affect the adjacent house wall, and then warmth rises.

Somebody makes a little swamp cooler that you can use indoors.  Set it on a table, with a water tank on top.  (A buddy of mine uses a window unit on a roll-around table, inside his garage.  Fifteen-gallon reservoir on top.   Works great!)

Art
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Desertdog

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2007, 07:42:47 AM »
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Somebody makes a little swamp cooler that you can use indoors.  Set it on a table, with a water tank on top
Just close your windows when it's on, and it doubles as a great humidifier. 

DJJ

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2007, 04:04:45 PM »
The garage has vents in the overhang soffits, and in the roof, but they're just holes, nothing active. I think one project I'll do real soon is replace those passive roof vents with fan(s).

DJJ

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2007, 06:15:39 PM »
New question: Won't upducts put moist air into the attic? I thought you wanted to keep moisture out of there.

Desertdog

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2007, 09:01:43 PM »
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New question: Won't upducts put moist air into the attic? I thought you wanted to keep moisture out of there.
A well ventilated attic will not accumulate moisture.  Where you have moisture problems is when you have an attic with poor ventilation and cold enough teperatures to cause the moister to condense out of the air, ie: cool the air  below the saturation point of the air.

Properly made Upducts will only work when there is a positive air pressure on them

K Frame

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2007, 09:21:23 PM »
The garage has vents in the overhang soffits, and in the roof, but they're just holes, nothing active. I think one project I'll do real soon is replace those passive roof vents with fan(s).

If you have a full-length ridge vent and a full complement of soffit venting, you're not going to gain anything by putting fans in other than increase your power consumption.

Just make sure that the screens on the soffits aren't blocked.
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DJJ

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2007, 03:07:12 PM »
Properly made Upducts will only work when there is a positive air pressure on them

Can you elaborate on that, Desertdog? Does that mean there's some special hardware that these consist of? Do they empty into the attic? Does that mean they rely on the AC unit itself to push the air on out of the attic?

If you have a full-length ridge vent and a full complement of soffit venting, you're not going to gain anything by putting fans in other than increase your power consumption.

I don't have a ridge vent, just a single passive vent (which is just a little chimney, maybe 10" diameter and 4" high with a cap, and it's not even at the top). Air may move through there, but not enough to prevent it from getting hotter than (insert glib metaphor here).

Desertdog

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2007, 03:46:19 PM »
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Quote from: Desertdog on July 23, 2007, 06:01:43 PM
Properly made Upducts will only work when there is a positive air pressure on them

Can you elaborate on that, Desertdog? Does that mean there's some special hardware that these consist of? Do they empty into the attic? Does that mean they rely on the AC unit itself to push the air on out of the attic?
There should be a damper at the outlet end which opens with the air pressure against, from the sweamp cooler, it and then it closes when the air pressure drops. 

With Refrigerated air conditioning, the air is recirculated through the evaporator coils.  Thus, no increase in air pressure in the house

DJJ

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2007, 03:51:54 PM »
I've been trying to find such a thing on the internet, but no luck. Any search tips?

RocketMan

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2007, 09:41:39 PM »
I've been trying to find such a thing on the internet, but no luck. Any search tips?

I bought mine at the local hardware store years ago when I lived in Phoenix.  Payless Cashways or some such.  Any place that sells swamp coolers should have them.  You should be able to get a good look at them there.
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K Frame

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2007, 07:10:33 AM »
No ridge vent? In that climate?

Jeez.

Next time you have your roof replaced write a ridge vent system into the contract.

In order to be truly effective at venting an attic, you really need ventilation in EVERY joist bay, not just one or two fans or passive turbines. That's why a ridge vent and soffit vents are so effective.
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Desertdog

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2007, 11:03:01 AM »
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I've been trying to find such a thing on the internet, but no luck. Any search tips?
I'll agree, t's a tough search, but I did find this informative article that most evaporative cooler owners should be able to learn something from.

This is in pdf format, so I couldn’t copy it.
http://www.swenergy.org/pubs/Evaporative_Cooling_Systems.pdf

It does show pictures of an upduct

DJJ

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Re: Anybody ever switch out evaporative cooling for refrigerated AC?
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2007, 05:47:13 PM »
Hm, thanks.