Gas Masks

[The Deer Hunter]

So does anyone know the deal with any gas masks you can buy these days?


I have done a little reading about them and have found out that about 98% of the masks are useless for their intended purpose. I know the Russian ardvark ones are pretty much useless, but they are cool and I have one.

I also have an Israeli civilian one, the black rubber kind. I have heard they actually work because Israel issues them to their people. Also, do the Russian filters work?

I also have a big problem with people all over the internet selling these as N.B.C.(protects from Nuclear, Biological and Chemical weapons) gas masks and filters. They're ads say something like "NBC, protect your loved ones!!! while the masks are just nice conversation pieces.

[stevelyn]

The masks are only as good as their filters and the integrity of the mask itself.

If you put the mask on, cover the air outlet and exhale, air should only leak out from around the perimeter. Close off the intakes and suck in the mask should suck down onto your face. This will show if its airtight or not.

Now for filters. They should be sealed in vacuum packed foil. The packet will be labeled if the filters are designed for training or for combat/hazardous environments use.

Of course my experience with masks are limited to the military M-17 series with the internal filters rather than the newer ones with the cansiter types.

My department received masks and filters from Homoland Insecurity funds, they are the canister type with the single lens face, but we haven't done any meaningful traing with them yet.

If you get a good mask with new filters they should work as their supposed to.

[Thor]

Quite honestly, I might trust the Israeli ones and the US GI ones (from 1975 and newer). Other than those, I wouldn't want to place my life in the hands of any other make. The ones we used in the first Gulf War were the full face ones with the canisters. I can't say if they worked because we were never by an chemical weapons. The ones we had in boot camp sure did work, at least on tear gas. They PROVED that to us!!!

[The Deer Hunter]

It's not that I am concerned about chemical attacks, I just like militaria type stuff and if it works then hey, why not use them.

Plus, I'm not spending upwards of $400 for one gas mask.

[Firethorn]

Plus, I'm not spending upwards of $400 for one gas mask.

You get what you pay for...

As far as it goes - I was taught that even expired training filters that have been out of their can for years were still effective for things like tear gas.  A filter is rated good against nerve agents for only three months once the seal has been broken on the can.

Another point:  Don't use alcohol on them.  Soap and water, or non-alcoholic cleaning wipes only.  Alcohol attacks the rubber and will eventually ruin the mask.

A good mask that's fitted to you and worn properly will indeed only leak if you blow out while blocking the outake.  On my mask this is more difficult than it sounds.  There's flap valves that ensure that.

When breathing in, if you block the filter opening the mask should glue itself to your face and you should experience a noticable lack of ability to draw air.  It's not pleasant by any means, it actually tends to panic me a bit(Can't breath!!!), but it's a sign the mask has a good seal.

After that, it's all about the filter.  Just realize that the military has chemsuits for a reason...  Nerve gas isn't absorbed only through the lungs, though that's the fastest vector.  That's why training tells you mask first if there's an unexpected chemical attack.  There's also things like blister agents, which do just as they say.  Then there's blood agents, some of which are fatal with a single breath(scary).  The only good thing is that blood agents break down extremely fast, limiting their effectivness as they can't spread well.

If you ever have reason to believe that there's been a chemical weapon attack using a conventional chemical weapon such as a nerve agent, get indoors.  While there is some vapor action, it'll mostly be small droplets.  If you get any on your skin, neutralize it with activated carbon(scrub with it), or wash it off with a bleach solution.

I say 'conventional' chemical weapon because there would be unconventional chemicals that could be used in an attack - from pesticides* to blowing up a big tank of chlorine(get to high ground, don't bother with the mask).

*frequently very similar to nerve agents

[Antibubba]

For around $250 you can get a military-quality Draeger.  The Israeli masks, both civilian an military, are Draeger designs.

[Leatherneck]

Here in the Pentagon we just got issued new escape hoods and gas masks. Read about it here: http://www.ilcdover.com/products/homeland_security/scapehoods.htm

Thing is, because my office oversees the testing of all chem-bio defense systems, I'm highly skeptical that any of them can be counted on to work.

TC

[Gewehr98]

Leatherneck,

Did they give you Atropine injectors, too?   

I was always looking forwards to jamming the spring-loaded mechanical nematocyst against my thigh and having it fire.  I could imagine the needle going directly into the femur, leaving me looking silly and dead with a big thingie sticking out of my leg...

We used bromoform and some other nasty things in my lab years ago, and rotated the mask cartridges in bench stock even if their seals weren't broken.  The crap one buys from Sportsman's Guide or Cheaper Than Dirt is best left as a wall ornament.  I wouldn't trust any of them unless they came direct to me from the manufacturer, new in the box, with new cartridges. Then, you have to figure out what the threat is, and use the appropriate cartridge.  Otherwise, you'll end up looking silly and dead.    

[Firethorn]

Here in the Pentagon we just got issued new escape hoods and gas masks. Read about it here: http://www.ilcdover.com/products/homeland_security/scapehoods.htm

Thing is, because my office oversees the testing of all chem-bio defense systems, I'm highly skeptical that any of them can be counted on to work.

TC

That looks pretty silly...

It looks like they're depending upon positive pressurization through the filter to maintain seal and keep 'normal' breathing possible.  Better remember to check the batteries!  Even then I don't imagine that it'd have much of a filter lifespan as it'd be moving an order of magnitude more air through it than my issued mask.

Still, for simple escape from a toxic building/area of limited scope, it should work.

If I was working where they were deploying those, I'd check to see if the filter's compatible with my mask, otherwise request a filter set for my mask, as that's what I'm comfortable with.

[Leatherneck]

The things are her by the thousands--each individual, plus hundreds of ready-use cabinets in the hallways. They are pretty much only for a "Get outta Dodge" scenario. And who knows what toxins we might face?

TC

[Firethorn]

The things are her by the thousands--each individual, plus hundreds of ready-use cabinets in the hallways. They are pretty much only for a "Get outta Dodge" scenario. And who knows what toxins we might face?

Well, they're probably counting on it taking a while to work through the skin, or at least have medical treatment available for those conditions, while the hood/mask keeps you alive and mobile long enough to stumble your way out.

What gets me is that they probably still cost hundreds of dollars apiece, far more than it would have taken to set up the central air system to do filtering.  Then again, that could be compromised, and I don't know the threat level for your building.  It could already have central filtering available.

As for chemical threats - my gas mask is rated for pretty much any 'non industrial chemical'.  It's not effective against things that remove/displace oxygen like chlorine, but if it's a large molecule or deactivated by activated carbon, the filter's good against it.  Even blood agents.

Personally, I tend to think that any big chemical attack in the USA is very likely to be a chlorine one - it's an easily available chemical.

You'd need a contained air system to do better, along with full body protection.  That makes me wonder though - how much heavier would a small oxygen tank type system have to be?

[The Deer Hunter]

Does anyone have a legit source for real filters?

[Manedwolf]

I have one of the Israeli issue ones, not the handout sort, but the one with larger eyepieces and a drinking tube with canteen connection. It seems really well made, and I'd fitted it properly and did a smell test with the banana oil. It's solid. It also came with a test piece you can fit to let it function without a filter, to let you practice putting it on quickly and breathing.

I also got new filters for it. Anyplace that sells new, high-quality filters to fit a NATO threaded mask, that's a good idea, since any of the green canister ones are likely horribly outdated.

As for real filters: http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/gas-filters.htm

I think what I bought were the Dragers. I need to look at them.

Mine looks like this:



I also have a bunch of the Israeli civvie ones put away just for other people.