Author Topic: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!  (Read 9144 times)

longeyes

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nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« on: September 01, 2007, 07:20:01 AM »
Changes to Marine Corps Uniform and Grooming Regulations



To the Marines convinced they weren't violating a real reg even while getting chewed out for keeping their hands in their pockets or wearing a cell phone on their belt - listen up.
The Corps released 36 new regulations this month officially banning both practices, as well as many others, in its first revision to grooming standards in more than a decade. Mary Boyt, the Marine Corps Uniform Board's program manager, said the service wanted to provide clear rules instead of leaving certain unofficial standards up to interpretation. The update was needed to stem an onslaught of calls the board has received on topics ranging from female buzz cuts to what bags can be worn while in uniform.
The 36 regulations - which provide guidance on old standards and spell out new ones - went through a nearly yearlong gauntlet of review boards and surveys. Commandant Gen. James Conway signed off on the new regs July 11, making them effective from that date, although they weren't announced until Aug. 1.
Cell phones aren't the only thing Marines can no longer wear on their uniforms. The Corps added "tobacco pouches/canisters, visible barrettes [except in physical training situations], and keychains/lanyards/security badges [except as required by the command in the work environment]" to its list of banned items. That means you can't tuck your can of chewing tobacco between your goggle strap and helmet, or use the watertight pouches often attached on the front of body armor.
However, cell phones can be stored in pockets instead of worn on belts, Boyt said. "This was important because a lot of people go outside to get a signal on their phone," she said.
But walking and talking on your phone is forbidden, according to the new
regs, even if you're using an earpiece. "If it's that important, Marines
will have to stop and talk while standing still," Boyt said. Marines also officially can no longer drink or keep their hands in their pockets while walking in uniform. In the field, Boyt said the rules can change, and if a Marine doesn't have his gloves, he should use common sense and use his pockets. But doing so is not authorized in garrison. The same regulation states Marines may not use electronic devices such as iPods while walking or running in uniform unless the local commander allows
it.
Unlike Army and Air Force policies, the Corps prohibited wearing nonissued bags while in uniform. Marines may carry computer bags or gym bags in their hands but are not authorized to wear them over their shoulders or on their backs, even if they match the color of their uniform, Boyt said.
Hair and jewelry: Several of the new regs deal with what's under your cover. Hairstyles such as the teardrop, horseshoe and Mohawk were officially banned for male Marines. Many Marines already considered haircuts such as the Mohawk forbidden, but senior noncommissioned officers wanted it in writing, Boyt said. Women's hairstyles are also covered. In response to a number of female Marines shaving their heads in Iraq, the board decided to define how short a woman's hair can be, Boyt said.
During the review process, the board received feedback from male officers
who wanted women to maintain feminine hairdos to ensure "they could tell the difference between their male and female Marines," Boyt said. The new
regulation states women must have hair longer than a quarter-inch from the
scalp. Women with long hair also received guidance; hair in buns may not extend more than three inches from the scalp and can be no wider than the woman's head.
"Realistically, everyone needs to put that helmet on and go," Boyt said. The Corps nixed the trend of wearing class rings or "door knockers" alongside a wedding band. Marines may wear only one ring per hand and no rings on their thumbs. However, an engagement ring and wedding band count as one, Boyt said.
The Corps already banned male Marines from wearing earrings in uniform but has now officially forbidden wearing them in civvies. Previously, it was
just assumed the ban in uniform would carry over, but it was never officially addressed, Boyt said. The reg also specifies that female Marines
may wear only one earring per ear in both uniform and civvies. Women's fingernails are now limited to a quarter-inch past the fingertip, though French manicures are allowed. The regs also clarify what nail polish and makeup colors are acceptable.
The board broke up the regulations between the two genders, with an extra
emphasis on ensuring female standards were well-defined, Boyt said. She said she had received multiple complaints from Marines saying the old female regulations were too vague. To bolster this new initiative, the Corps added more women to the review boards.
Civilian attire: The uniform board struggled with how to define what a Marine may wear in his off hours without going back to the days of mandating khakis and a colored shirt, Boyt said. But the new regulations tried to eradicate the "gangsta" look, she added. When wearing trousers with belt loops, Marines must wear a belt, according to the new regs. Trousers are defined as any pants or shorts, including jeans, Boyt said. Any civilian clothing revealing the "midriff," "buttocks" or "excessive
amounts of chest/cleavage" was also banned.
Decorative orthodenture is also covered under the regs. Marines with "platinum grills" or any other platinum or gold dental caps used for "purposes of ornamentation" must be removed. Waivers may be issued by commanders to Marines who received permanent gold or platinum caps before
Oct. 1 of this year, according to the regulation.
Source: Michael Hoffman - Staff writer, MarineCorpsTimes.com
Tuesday Aug 14, 2007 19:02:51 EDT MarineCorpsTimes
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Fly320s

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2007, 09:43:11 AM »
Well, it is a uniform.

I don't think it is nanny-ism.  Just clearing-up the regs.
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longeyes

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2007, 10:17:05 AM »
No, it couldn't happen there.

Or could it?

The Clintons had their way with the armed forces for a long time.  Let's hope they don't again.

I think there may be some people at the USMC with a little too much time on their hands.
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Thor

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2007, 01:27:08 PM »
Many of those rules were also applicable to us Sailors. Technically, one wasn't supposed to smoke and walk down the street, no hands in pockets, haircuts were pretty well regulated, no eating or drinking while walking down the road or while on a roving watch. Cell phones were far too expensive for the average Sailor to own when I retired, so they weren't a problem. The one ring per hand, mainly while in uniform was also there. I suppose the clarification was needed because so many people would push the regs.

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Gewehr98

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2007, 01:58:29 PM »
Dunno how many airmen I busted for standing there with their hands in their pockets.  Cell phones were a no-no on their uniforms, too. 

That's why they're called uniformsWink
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Perd Hapley

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2007, 03:11:02 PM »
Nanny state?  The military?  It's always been like that.  You must not have served. 


No, it couldn't happen there.

Or could it?

The Clintons had their way with the armed forces for a long time.  Let's hope they don't again.

I think there may be some people at the USMC with a little too much time on their hands.


What do you mean?  This is really nothing new, and nothing Clinton-esque, just a clarifying of pre-existing guidelines.  We had the same stuff in the Army a few years back.  I don't know if they were written anywhere, but they were enforced. 
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2007, 03:23:03 PM »
Speaking as a (former) Marine NCO, there's nothing there that isn't a natural extension of existing regs, most of it was unofficial (read - my) policy anyway.

Young people will push the boundaries, it's up to their leadership to restrain them as necessary.  They are in the Marine Corps, not smoking and joking back on the block.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2007, 03:25:18 PM »
Carebear, you oppressor!   smiley
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wmenorr67

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2007, 06:26:50 PM »
Being a current NCO in the Army National Guard we have a lot of the same regulations.  Do I agree with all of them?  No.  Do I try to live by them?  Yes.  Do some of them get bent at times?  Yes.  Have I flat out broken some?  Yes.

The ones that really don't always agree with are the ones that are supposed to dictate what you can do when not in uniform.
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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2007, 06:34:12 PM »
I don't see anything odd in the new regulations. The military changes or adds to its regulations periodically as needed to deal with new situations that come up. That way everyone does things in a uniform way, which is generally desirable in a uniformed service.

Off duty, you would not think it matters much, but it is hard to be a control freak and not have some of that kind of spill over. Just part of the deal when you sign up.
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Thor

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2007, 07:18:38 PM »
Fact is, when one is active duty military, they are never truly "off duty". A lot of people think it's ok to wear earrings and the like when not in uniform. Regardless, they are military and representatives of the military. Yes, I'm an "oppressor", too!  shocked

 grin
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Gewehr98

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2007, 07:46:22 PM »
Got popped by the wing commander at Osan AB, Korea.  His white-topped staff car came to a screeching halt.

I was wearing an earring while in civilian clothes as we headed off-base to do some shopping. 

Big no-no under PACAF rules.   sad
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RevDisk

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2007, 08:29:32 PM »
The ones that really don't always agree with are the ones that are supposed to dictate what you can do when not in uniform.

Seconded.  Some of my CO's tried doing the No-No's in civvies.  That got old real quick.  The one star on my first deployment I swear spent more time cracking down on us than he did focusing on the mission.  We came up with a t-shirt listing the new 'Ten Commandments'.  No eating on the economy, no shopping on the economy, no war trophies, no relations with the locals, no complaining (no, I'm not kidding), no fraternization, no gambling (BWAHAHA), no pornography (BWAHAHAHAAHA), no alcohol, and no R&R leave. 

We had them printed by allies back in CONUS and mailed to us hidden in a shipping container.  We had an inflitrator in the mail personnel who smuggled it past the inspectors.  We had better OPSEC on the distribution than most of our intel operations.  Said one star ALWAYS caught the Saturday 2130 movie at the 'theater'.  We posted sentries, lookouts and infiltration specialists anyways with our best communication net. We filled in the first three rows and had everyone slouched down so the back was not visible.  When the national anthem started up, we all stood up in unison.  He probably would have had us all thrown in the stockade, except for the fact that we distributed said shirts to 20% of the task force on the first shipment.  We specifically got 50 to 60 percent of the MP's.  Many officers commented that it was the best planned and executed mission of the entire deployment. 

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K Frame

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2007, 08:34:42 PM »
If you don't like rules, don't join the military.
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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2007, 03:08:35 AM »
If you don't like rules, don't join the military.

Amen.


I don't see anything that seems out of place, and if I were still an NCO I'd probably stick a boot in someone's ass for doing half the things listed that are now banned.  Its actually sad they had to clarify some of that nasty, undisciplined behavior.
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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2007, 04:15:33 AM »
Anyone who is surprised by this, or thinks it's some sudden PC invasion, shouldn't be.  This is the military.  Rules, rules, rules.  I can understand some (but not all) of them, particularly while you are on duty and in uniform.

However, I have no patience w/ off duty regulations regarding clothing.  I personally can't stand the gangsta look, but it is no business of the military what you wear off duty.  What, you represent the military by what you wear off duty?  That's crap.  How come no one holds McDonalds or Walmart or any other organization responsible for what their employees wear off duty?  Make no mistake, the military is not some mythic order of warriors.  It's a corporation, an organization, a business, just like everything else.  Yeah, our job is to go fight wars, but there is still the same mess of rules, politics, and bullshit that you find in any large organzation.  RevDisk's story about their BG and his endless oversight is a perfect example.  The CSM of the brigade we are attached to down here is a perfect example of that.  For that matter, our battalion CSM is the same way. 

RevDisk

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2007, 04:33:18 AM »
If you don't like rules, don't join the military.

Uh.  Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the military.  Complaining and grousing is normal.  Not quite encouraged, but very much tolerated within parameters.  My first NCO taught me, "Do first, THEN question the intelligence, lineage and moral character of the bonehead who issued the orders."   

You only need to worry when soldiers STOP complaining.  There is no clearer sign that the execrement is about to hit the fan than quiet, glaring soldiers.

My issue isn't as much the 'rules' as it is certain folks, and not all of them officers either, that care more about their careers or mindless obedience to 'rules' moreso than their REAL mission.  I don't mind the real regs and such, but there's plenty of chicken execrement mixed in.
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K Frame

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2007, 05:58:46 AM »
"chicken execrement"

It's always been that way, and it always has been.

Virtually everything I'm seeing in this thread, though, could be construed to be of legitimate military necessity to maintain discipline and order.

Yes, there's some chicken excrement in there. Don't complain? You're right, that's a laugh. But I think it's also pretty true that the average enlisted would consider a lot more things to be chicken excrement than would officers or even civilians.

If you don't like chicken excrement, don't join the military.
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Thor

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2007, 07:26:50 AM »


However, I have no patience w/ off duty regulations regarding clothing.  I personally can't stand the gangsta look, but it is no business of the military what you wear off duty.  What, you represent the military by what you wear off duty?  That's crap.  How come no one holds McDonalds or Walmart or any other organization responsible for what their employees wear off duty? 

McDonald's and WalMart employees don't stick out like a sore thumb when they're not working. With the military, mainly the men, moreso than the women, the haircuts, mustaches, demeanor, etc are a dead giveaway.

Of course, the military COULD go back to requiring their members to wear their uniform, even while on liberty/ off duty.
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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2007, 08:37:04 AM »
Seconded.  Some of my CO's tried doing the No-No's in civvies.  That got old real quick.  The one star on my first deployment I swear spent more time cracking down on us than he did focusing on the mission.  We came up with a t-shirt listing the new 'Ten Commandments'.  No eating on the economy, no shopping on the economy, no war trophies, no relations with the locals, no complaining (no, I'm not kidding), no fraternization, no gambling (BWAHAHA), no pornography (BWAHAHAHAAHA), no alcohol, and no R&R leave.

At least in my branch; such action would result in a visit from the commander's commander, and he'd bring a but-chewing with him.

Keeping troops in-line is one thing, going so far that they pull this sort of stuff indicates the beginning of a morale problem.

HankB

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2007, 01:10:44 PM »
It's a volunteer force - you're only in because you WANT to be in.

If you didn't know there would be a lot of senseless BS before you joined, you're not real bright . . .   rolleyes
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2007, 01:21:31 PM »
Quote
McDonald's and WalMart employees don't stick out like a sore thumb when they're not working. With the military, mainly the men, moreso than the women, the haircuts, mustaches, demeanor, etc are a dead giveaway.

Of course, the military COULD go back to requiring their members to wear their uniform, even while on liberty/ off duty.

My first liberty weekend at MCT they held our personel clothing in storage and required us to wear our Charlies out the gate. 

Why?  Some idiots in the prior class had gone on liberty in torn up jeans, untucked t-shirts and sideways ballcaps.  Apparently in front of the base commander (Pendleton).

So I had to go buy a new set of civvies in San Diego (the order didn't forbid that).  That was in '91 and the order for liberty attire was collared shirts and belts if the pants had belt loops.  I have no problem with going back to that.
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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2007, 01:37:04 PM »
Sounds like more than a few clowns managed to screw it up for everyone... Nothing new here.

I'm just surprised that my old Corps had relaxed things so much!

French G.

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2007, 03:32:41 PM »
Trying to keep the kiddies from making fashion statements with their uniforms is a full time job in the Navy. I remember the good old days where if you pissed someone off good enough they would take your civilian clothes privileges away. Now it is all Bluetoothes, Livestrong bracelets, ridiculous hair, cracking gum in ranks, Dolce&Gabbana glasses, etc. And that's just the Ensigns! Cheesy The idea we are all supposed to look the same in uniform is the tired old view of tired old NCOs.  Like me...
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Moondoggie

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Re: nanny state comes to USMC?!!!
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2007, 03:46:54 PM »
Well, sports fans...

Back in the "Old Corps" we had this device known as a "Liberty Card" that was issued by your Company Commander.  The liberty cards were kept in a file box in the duty NCO's office.

After liberty call had been sounded and you had been secured by your work section, you could present yourself to the duty NCO and request your liberty card.  The duty NCO would ensure that you were in appropriate civilian attire prior to signing your liberty card out.  Appropriate civilian attire included clean, presentable clothing; trousers (women wear pants) with beltloops and belt, shirt with a collar and buttons, socks, etc.  "Free spirits" were not encouraged nor tolerated.  A few hours of shining a 35 gal shitcan with brasso would reinforce the concept of conformity.  The Marine Corps owned you 24/7.  You could do all of the free spirit crap you wanted while you were on leave, as long as you didn't get caught.

BTW, you had to show your liberty card to the MP's to get off base, as well.

Sometimes, if you had whizzed in the Cheerios of someone above you in the chain of command your liberty card would be "pulled".  When you presented yourself to the duty NCO, there simply wouldn't be a liberty card with your name on it in the file..they didn't necessarily have to tell you beforehand.

What's happening in the story about the uniform regs is clarifications to deal with changing customs/technology in the civilian world that bleed over into the Service.

I recognize that some of you don't understand the culture of the Marine Corps.  What you really don't understand is how completely we don't care if you approve of it or not. 

Phantomwarrior...you're in the Army.  Stay there.  You would not find happiness in the Marine Corps.

Kindly direct your attention to this youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za2jp_tfifs&mode=related&search

Then take you opinion of how the Marine Corps does business and jam it where the sun doesn't shine.....sideways.

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