Steve Fossett may be gone...plane missing.

[Fly320s]

Speaking of ELTs, I received an email alert from the Federalis, uh Friendly Folks at the FAA, that said the 121.5mhz monitoring via satellite will be discontinued in 2008 or 2009 (I can't remember).

I'll see if I can find it.

edit.  Here it is:

Termination of 121.5 MHz Beacons for Satellite Alerting is Coming Soon
Notice Number: NOTC0981

On 1 February 2009, the International Cospas-Sarsat [1] Organization (U.S. included) will terminate processing of distress signals emitted by 121.5 MHz Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs). This means that pilots flying aircraft equipped with 121.5 MHz ELTs after that date will have to depend on pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations monitoring 121.5 to hear and report distress alert signals, transmitted from a possible crash site.

Why is this happening?

Although lives have been saved by 121.5 MHz ELTs, the downside has been their propensity to generate false alerts (approximately 98 percent of all 121.5 MHz alerts are false), and their failure to provide rescue forces with timely and accurate crash location data. Both of which actually delay rescue efforts and have a direct effect on an individual's chance for survival. Rescue forces have to respond to all 121.5 MHz alerts to determine if they are real distress alerts or if they are being generated by an interferer, an inadvertent activation (by the owner) or equipment failure.

Is there an alternative?

Yes, the Cospas-Sarsat System (U.S. included) has been and will continue processing emergency signals transmitted by 406 MHz ELTs. These 5 Watt digital beacons transmit a much stronger signal, are more accurate, verifiable and traceable to the registered beacon owner (406 MHz ELTs must be registered by the owner in accordance with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulation). Registration allows the search and rescue authorities to contact the beacon owner, or his or her designated alternate by telephone to determine if a real emergency exists. Therefore, a simple telephone call often solves a 406 MHz alerts without launching costly and limited search and rescue resources, which would have to be done for a 121.5 MHz alert. For these reasons, the search and rescue community is encouraging aircraft owners to consider retrofit of 406 MHz ELTs or at a minimum, consider the purchase of a handheld 406 MHz Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) which can be carried in the cockpit while continuing to maintain a fixed 121.5 MHz ELT mounted in the aircraft's tail.

Remember, after February 1, 2009, the world-wide Cospas-Sarsat satellite system will no longer process 121.5 MHz alert signals. Pilots involved in aircraft accidents in remote areas will have to depend on pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations to hear emergency ELT distress signals. For further information concerning the termination of 121.5 MHz data processing visit www.sarsat.noaa.gov

[Fly320s]

Don't powered aircraft need an electrical system, to fire the spark plugs if nothing else?

No.  Airplanes use magnetos, not alternators, to power the spark plugs.  That way, if all the electrical power fails, the engine will still be able to run.

[Ben]

Speaking of ELTs, I received an email alert from the Federalis, uh Friendly Folks at the FAA, that said the 121.5mhz monitoring via satellite will be discontinued in 2008 or 2009 (I can't remember).

Sorry dude, my agency's fault. Though the 406s ARE a lot better. We fly with 406 Personal EPIRPs in our vests as well.

[Jamisjockey]

At risk of thread veer....
If you're operating in controlled airspace, but not Class B, C, D, here's what I'd suggest.  And its only the 15 years of ATC background I have, which includes hundreds of crashes, Near midairs, etc etc.  If you're operating near an uncontrolled airport that is under ATC jurisdiction, at least monitor the ATC freq.  If you're in Airspace owned by a tower or TRACON, also consider at least monitoring ATC.  I can't count the number of times a FLIB was in harms way, and if only I could have issued traffic to the little bastard.    You might think its "big brother", but if you only knew the number of times some moron cut through a VFR transition at 200 knots, not talking to a soul, nearly killing 2 or 3 other aircraft.....
I guess its a matter of perspective.  Obviously in areas that aren't busy, its the big sky/little plane theory.  But if you're under/over/near busy airspace.....not talking to ATC might not be the safest thing you could do.....
PS:  I've often had times where I start saying Oh *expletive deleted*it...then issuing traffic....and that guy was listening to me issue traffic to the airplane he's about to hit..and takes the appropriate action or makes contact with me for advisories.  If I had a nickel for every FLIB that was saved by paying attention.....shhhiiittttttt I'd be rollin a fat whip with big reems.

[Perd Hapley]

And its only the 15 years of ATC background I have, which includes hundreds of crashes, Near midairs, etc etc.

Boy, you weren't very good at that, were you?      

[Jamisjockey]

And its only the 15 years of ATC background I have, which includes hundreds of crashes, Near midairs, etc etc.

Boy, you weren't very good at that, were you?      

Cute, but none of the crashes were my fault.....we won't discuss the close calls, though
 
From the "you can't make this *expletive deleted*it up" files....


"Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!  this is Cessna 4569!  We're on fire!"
"Cessna 4569, this is XXX approach, say position!"
"Approach, we're on the ground at airport XXX!"
"Cessna 4569, try getting out of the $%@!ing airplane!"
People do stupid *expletive deleted*it when they panic.....

[Perd Hapley]

And its only the 15 years of ATC background I have, which includes hundreds of crashes, Near midairs, etc etc.

Boy, you weren't very good at that, were you?      

Cute, but none of the crashes were my fault...

Suuuuuure. 

[Jamisjockey]

And its only the 15 years of ATC background I have, which includes hundreds of crashes, Near midairs, etc etc.

Boy, you weren't very good at that, were you?      

Cute, but none of the crashes were my fault...

Suuuuuure. 

Closest I came to crapping myself that I can recall right now in my mildly inebriated condition.  KBRO (Brownsville International Arpt, TX)
Mexican registry twin engine sitting at the hold lines.  COA B737 over the fence (200 yard final).  Mexican registry twin (IIRC it was a Piper Chyenne) pulls out on the runway.  COA was in a flare and probably didn't see the guy.  I blurted out something about "Go around or you're gonna die!".  It sounded horrible on the tapes.....I sounded like a 12 year old girl at a boy band concert.  COA got the message and put the coals to it.  Probably missed by 50' vertical.  I drank myself to the point of full intoxication/throwing up in the lawn when I got home.....
Ow! My liver!

[HankB]

Don't powered aircraft need an electrical system, to fire the spark plugs if nothing else?

No.  Airplanes use magnetos, not alternators, to power the spark plugs.  That way, if all the electrical power fails, the engine will still be able to run.

Nice to know you can get an electrical spark with no electricity.

[French G.]

I think what he is saying is that a mag needs no external power input to generate spark, it makes its own spark, no batteries, no spark box, etc. Airplanes also have redundant mags. This is why I giggle like a schoolgirl everytime the "sparkbox" quits on a NASCAR vehicle, having fixed hundreds of mags and knowing that what passes for a high performance electronic ignition is failure prone crap. If you don't like walking or crashing, have redundant mags or at least a points type distributor.

[Tallpine]

Nice to know you can get an electrical spark with no electricity.

Ever thought about what makes a lawn mower, chainsaw, and old tractors run? 

And lots of old planes had to be hand-propped to start.  I knew a guy up in AK that carried a portable battery powered GPS in a T-craft for navigation, even though it wasn't exactly authorized.  No radio either.  This was way out in the western (lower Yukon R.) bush.

[Perd Hapley]

I giggle like a schoolgirl everytime the "sparkbox" quits on a NASCAR vehicle

No, you're supposed to do that when they crash. 

[Hawkmoon]

So, not to hijack this thread or anything, but ... is there any update about that Fossett guy? You remember him -- the subject of the thread?

[Boomhauer]

So, not to hijack this thread or anything, but ... is there any update about that Fossett guy? You remember him -- the subject of the thread?

Still missing. Last article I read said that in addition to the ELT, he had a watch with a built in beacon. Neither had been detected, though.

Don't powered aircraft need an electrical system, to fire the spark plugs if nothing else?

No.  Airplanes use magnetos, not alternators, to power the spark plugs.  That way, if all the electrical power fails, the engine will still be able to run.

Nice to know you can get an electrical spark with no electricity.

What I am referring to is to aircraft that have no electrical system- no starter, altenator/generator, lights, battery, etc. The ignition system is considered totally separate from the electrical system.

An aircraft w/o an electrical system, therefore, is not supposed to fly at night, in IFR, and since there is no transponder, not into controlled airspace without arranging it with the facility in charge of the airspace (IIRC).

[Bogie]

Hmmm... Anyone ever make a diesel aircraft? Be interesting... Be one heckuva transmission, or some hyuge props...
 
I got a buddy who's a FLIB...

[Boomhauer]

Hmmm... Anyone ever make a diesel aircraft? Be interesting... Be one heckuva transmission, or some hyuge props..

Yep. There are two manufactorers right now- Theirlet and SMA. Theirlet (or however you spell it) is German, and SMA is French (IIRC).

I think both are FADEC controlled engines. They run on Jet-A and, other than a sometimes different cowling shape, you can't tell the difference between a diesel and a regular gasoline engine. Same size props as gas engines.

And Bogie, most of the aviation engines are direct drive, with some being geared. But most direct drive.

I believe that the Diamond DA-42 has diesels, and there is a package that was being tested and might have even been approved for the Cessna 182.

[Ben]

Diamond DA-42 has diesels

Either the DA-20 or old Katana have diesel versions in Europe. I thought I read they were gonna get approved here, but haven't kept up.

[Gewehr98]

Hmmm... Anyone ever make a diesel aircraft?

Funny you should ask, Bogie! 6-cylinder, 12-piston opposed diesel aircraft engine:



It's the Junkers Jumo 205, used on Dornier Do18 and Do26 flying boats.  The Jumo 207 was a supercharged and intercooled Jumo 205 variant, and was installed in Junkers Ju86 bombers beginning around 1940.

[richyoung]

Hmmm... Anyone ever make a diesel aircraft? Be interesting... Be one heckuva transmission, or some hyuge props...
 
I got a buddy who's a FLIB...

Germans experimented with some diesel bombers in the Late Great Hate - they were less than smashing sucesses...  JU86d perhaps...?

[Tallpine]

The trouble with diesel airplanes is that they can't keep the pilots from chattering on the radio all the time

[Creeping Incrementalism]

"Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!  this is Cessna 4569!  We're on fire!"
"Cessna 4569, this is XXX approach, say position!"
"Approach, we're on the ground at airport XXX!"
"Cessna 4569, try getting out of the $%@!ing airplane!"
People do stupid *expletive deleted*it when they panic.....

Maybe they thought the fire trucks would get there quicker if they made a call on the radio before hopping out, and just happened to be on the approach frequency.

Mexican registry twin (IIRC it was a Piper Chyenne) pulls out on the runway.  COA was in a flare and probably didn't see the guy.  I blurted out something about "Go around or you're gonna die!"

At an airport in Florida (might have been Daytona), a controller told me a Delta (MD-80 series plane probably) had to go around because an alligator was sunning itself on the runway, and I guessed no one in the tower noticed.    This same guy told me that there was this teenage makeout spot near the Daytona airport, and when they got bored at night, they would use the light gun to illuminate the vehicle.  This guy was pretty goofy... during a tower tour from our big flight school at the airport, while he was working one of the radars, pulled his headset partway off and asked an aircraft to say speed and altitude three times in a row so just so we could hear what our radios sounded like from the other end, then asked us, "Anybody know that guy?"

I can't count the number of times a FLIB was in harms way, and if only I could have issued traffic to the little bastard.    You might think its "big brother", but if you only knew the number of times some moron cut through a VFR transition at 200 knots, not talking to a soul, nearly killing 2 or 3 other aircraft.....

I once had a... high-strung female controller ask me in an annoyed tone of voice if I could identify the N-number of a C-152 or something at my altitude about a thousand yards away.  I thought it was kind of ridiculous to even ask, it was much too far to read... you ever seriously ask anyone to do that?

[Boomhauer]

I once had a... high-strung female controller ask me in an annoyed tone of voice if I could identify the N-number of a C-152 or something at my altitude about a thousand yards away.  I thought it was kind of ridiculous to even ask, it was much too far to read... you ever seriously ask anyone to do that?

If the controller is not a pilot, they may not understand a lot of stuff i.e.- what it is like on our end. The ones that are pilots are usually pretty good, though.

Oh, we did have a controller that was learning to fly at our airport (I fly at an uncontrolled airfield that has a controlled airfield 6 miles away). He would call up his coworkers and harass them, pretending he was a complete noob when it came to comms, and generally annoying them.



 

[DustinD]

There are a few new ones being developed as well, such as Delta Hawk.

[Jamisjockey]

once had a... high-strung female controller ask me in an annoyed tone of voice if I could identify the N-number of a C-152 or something at my altitude about a thousand yards away.  I thought it was kind of ridiculous to even ask, it was much too far to read... you ever seriously ask anyone to do that

Yes.  A thousand yards on a radar scope doesn't look very far depending on the settings.  Of course, usually if I'm having to ask for someone to read an N number, they've been much closer prior to my asking.  Although, I've vectored 'regulars' onto class B violators to get N numbers.  Had a small Experimental decide it was a good idea to orbit the departure end during a very, very busy time of day in SLC.  A helpful local chased him off and got the tail number so we could file a report.