First religious question

[griz]

OK, here we go. Im starting this knowing that this is the thin ice on which we are to be careful. So lets be nice.

Now that we are allowed to politely discuss this once taboo topic, I'll start with this question. It is lifted from THRs RT, so some will recognize it.
Why does God (or Gods, any Supreme Being) allow suffering?  I tend to believe its an unfortunate byproduct of the extremes, IE you cant appreciate good weather with out bad weather. But Im not sure that is a good answer.  What do you think?

[P95Carry]

I am not even goin' to get in deep here!  Just cruisin thru   I am non-religious BTW, tho do have my own set of values etc.

If ''God'' is benevolent then yeah - why all the suffering.?  Awful lot of the ''only the good die young'' type of thing.  And, why do BG's live when GG's die etc .. similar thing.

Another one ... if God is impartial - why or how does praying to ''Him'' before military action give your side any ''edge'' over the other side - the guys you really, really want to kill, badly!  If both sides ask for ''help'' - for their ''just cause'' ... where does that leave a God?

How come for some - they can sin all they want, screw up folk's lives and then - go and get absolution ... all ready to start over again?

Ok ... I won't partake too much - been in discussions before on this and not likely to changes views this late but - sure as heck, feel I have earned some of my cynicism !

Debate on fellas ... there's many miles ahead!

[Guest]

[ Off all people to reply - I know]

My perception is - One never knows whom is watching another.  Be it good times or bad times. Folks are used to set examples of how a belief in "Something Greater Than Themselves" can assist them in daily living , be this  times of good fortune, or times of being less fortunate.

Human beings can become all messed up by a windfall of monies - or being Dx with a terminal illness.

Sharing Experience ,Strength, and Hope, one of many beliefs shared in a variety of Belief systems.

One is used to help their fellow man, pass forward, and perpetuate some Beliefs, ethics, more's , principles.


Preacherman will perhaps have some better explanations - best ignore mine and listen to his.

[Pilgrim]

Because we're not His pets.

I have two whippets.  I do my best to make their life comfortable and without pain.  As a result, they are not in charge of their destiny, I am.

If we are to control our destiny, we have to suffer the pain and consequences of our bad decisions along with the joys of our good decisions.

Pilgrim

[grampster]

Free will, ladies and gentleman, free will.  With billions of people exercising same, there are far reaching ramifications throughout time and space.

  Regarding weather, well,  nature seems to interact with itself in ways that are fairly well understood and after that things happen and we tend to be in the way from time to time.

[Steelharp]

IMHO... all things good are of God, all things bad are not. Simplistic, but to the point. I don't believe God "allows" suffering. The devil (Satan, etc., your name of choice) inflicts the wrong, the pain, the suffering. We, as creatures with free will, can accept either path by our decisions. We can strive for victory, or we can languish in less.

[Waitone]

So how come it is we expect God to alleviate the consequences of our own thoughts, words, and deeds.  Sounds like my children years ago when they wanted to know why I let them get lost in the mall.  They were the ones who wandered off, but they expected me to alleviate the consequences of their actions.

[Michigander]

Steelharp, I'm not sure the Satan arguement can stand for long. IOW, didn't God create Satan? If so, then we are back to the original question.

[griz]

A little clarification, I wasn't thinking of suffering from the consequences of your own actions, more along the lines of the innocent suffering random tragedies. The latest tidal wave is one example. But if the fact that they decided to be by the shore is a problem, the death of a baby would be another example.

[Steelharp]

Michigander, point taken. As the commonly accepted (at least the one I know) story goes, of course God created everything. Lucifer was one of His angels that came to believe that he was greater than God. Since "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," Lucifer was cast out along with his followers.

BTW, what does IOW stand for?

[P95Carry]

IOW - in other words!

[Steelharp]

Doh! (Dumb Ol' Hillbilly - that's me!) Thanks...  :oops:

[Zundfolge]

Coming from a Christian perspective, I believe that in the grand scheme of things, our existance on earth will be but a tiny part of the whole of our lives ... if indeed the Bible is correct and after we die we will go to heaven and live there forever then I figure that even if you suffer tremendously here on earth that 10,000 years from now you probably won't even remember it.

God's perspective is a little broader then our own so maybe he sees any suffering here as insignificant.

[Arc-Lite]

I do not see a connection between suffering and God.... and I see a large difference between religion and spirituality...we can see things as how everything effects us, or how we effect everything.

[spacemanspiff]

okay heres the deal (as i have interpreted it! therefore flame not me but rather my interpretations!)

god is not our baby sitter. he is not obligated to make all our problems disappear.
sometimes people believe he has answered their prayers and has blessed them. thats up to the individual to decide however. some may consider their hardships to be a blessing, as it helps them appreciate whatever small amounts of good they encounter in their life.

if you are familiar with the bible, you probably have heard the story of Job. so i wont bore you with retelling it. just recall that job did have everything, and had it taken away, for reasons at the time, he did not understand. the purpose of it was to see if he would blame god for what happened.

now, it began because (according to the bible, again, open to interpretation) satan challenged god by accusing him of having loyal followers (like job) only because god blessed them. so job proved that even without all the blessings, he would still praise god.

but it starts back even further. back to the original sin. god could have destroyed the one angel who questioned his authority. but it would not have answered the question of 'would humans willingly serve god?'
had that never been answered, god would have looked like just a big mean ol bully, making sure everything was done according to the way he wanted it.

it would also have proven that god didnt wish for his creation to exercise their free will to choose what path they will take in life.

thats my interpretation of it anyways. from a personal perspective, i believe its rather insulting and egotistical to think that somehow, god OWES us protection.

[Moondoggie]

Coming from a non-Christian perspective....

First of all, God is God, and we're not.  We're not intended to know the mysteries of the universe...if we were, we would.

I believe that we are all created eternal spiritual beings.  "Eternity" encompasses forever IN BOTH DIRECTIONS.   Our lifespan isn't even a blink of an eye in comparasion to eternity.  I think our purpose in being here is to experience a non-spiritual existence as an avenue toward spiritual growth.  In that vein, the most terrible prolonged suffering we can imagine wouldn't even amount to a pesky splinter or a bee sting in the context of eternity.  I think the Bhuddist concept that an evil act hurts the perpretrator more because it decreases their spirituality...generalizing here...may be accurate.  I don't think God is involved in events here at all.  I think we keep getting recycled until we get it right, or at least do better.  Think about it...how many exceptionally awful things are committed by lowlife (spiritually challenged?) scumbags??  Don't most decent folk (spiritually advanced?) live by the "Golden Rule"?

So I guess that I include reincarnation in my spiritual philosophy...maybe as other "things", maybe on other planets.  Each "incarnation" is an opportunity for spiritual advancement.  Probably some randomness, maybe the spiritual being has the option to be incarnated or not.  Pretty much everybody adheres to some concept of an afterlife...what about the "beforelife"?  In the Christian Bible, doesn't God say "I knew you before I knit you in your mother's womb"?  Gives me the idea that we were "with God" prior to this life.  

Every religion that I've been exposed to has the precept "with God, all things are possible" as part of the program.  "All things" covers a lot of territory.  One guy's "Sci-Fi Fantasy" comic book philosophy is another guy's walk to the corner for a pack of gum.

OK, now y'all know that I'm a kook!

[Azrael256]

innocent suffering random tragedies. The latest tidal wave is one example.

 I don't think the tidal wave is a valid example, and I think you can extend this to other natural disasters.  It was not really random, unexpected, or impossible to deal with.  Look at our seismic warning network, or that of the Japanese.  Because we know that we have to deal with earthquakes and such, we prepare ourselves.  We direct our free will (granted to us by whoever you believe created you) to build infrastructure to warn our people, minimize damage, and quickly deal with casualties.  Read up on the USGS study of the recent activity of Mt. St. Helens, and compare it to Pliny writing about Vesuvius.  USGS pays attention to the warnings.  Pompeii did not.

I won't go into why the people of Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia, etc. did not build this sort of infrastructure, as that is no doubt the subject of many a study by political scientists, but the fact is that they didn't.  The people responsible for ensuring that the affected countries were prepared for disasters failed, and the unfortunate folks around the coast suffered for it.  I don't see the transcendent having much of a hand in it.  I do see governments failing to take the necessary precautions to safeguard their people, and a vast number of innocents laying dead because of it.

[Happy Bob]

If life on Earth could be a spiritual "classroom," consider: good training courses can be hard.

[wasrjoe]

Why does God (or Gods, any Supreme Being) allow suffering?

Because there is no supreme being of any sort. What you see is what you get.

At least that's what I think.

[Wildalaska]

Hi..My name is God and I dont give a *expletive deleted*it...the fact that I havent ended this experiment illustrates that

WildthatsmybasicphilosophyyAlaska

[BillBlank]

He sums it up rather well.

Free will folks, lifes a gamble from the first breath.  Wouldn't have it any other way. Being looked after is boring, why else do we struggle to leave our parents when we hit adolesence?

It does mean that when it goes wrong there's noone to  pick you up and kiss it better apart from yourself and people that care about you. Bit harsh but an excellent incentive to be nice to your fellow man.

[The Rabbi]

To give Him a few laughs every now and then.

[Arc-Lite]

another way to make the Big Guy laugh, is to tell him your plans.

[Michigander]

Yes, I believe "free will" is the key, although God already knows, and always has known, all the choices we'd make.

When one considers "natural disasters," I'm glad someone pointed out that much could have been done to prevent countless lost lives. Instead of "where was God?", perhaps the question should be, "where was Man?"

Why didn't Man do what he could to prevent all the lost lives? Greed, probably.

What about the baby born addicted to crack, or with AIDS? Where was God? Where was Man? What choices did Man make to create a child with such problems? How many diseases could be cured and/or eliminated if it weren't for greed, lust, amoral or immoral behavior?

Also, another thing: When a natural disaster strikes, and many people die, somehow we all assume they were "innocent" people. We do not know that they were. May be safe to say the children were "innocent" relatively, but certainly not all the adults were "innocent" even in our eyes, let alone God's eyes.

[Sindawe]

There is a reason why things happen in the world.

The reason is that the Gods are bored and in need of a good laugh.