Author Topic: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?  (Read 5284 times)

jeepmor

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Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« on: September 06, 2007, 04:50:55 PM »
I think so.  I've got a liberal friend who has the "if only they did it MY way" attitude.  But I don't get that from my conservative leaning crowd....as much.

But reading on here, I see those leanings too, and as much as I get bashed for thinking differently, I still respect all your opinions and value them greatly.  They change my perspective for the better.  Although, some of you are pretty self righteous in your arguements, and you pose good damn arguements to boot.  I just don't have the energy to compete.  I did once, but now, as I get older, I don't really give a hoot as long as I can pursue my interests, the rest of you can take it or leave it.  Albeit, I do agree with the conservative angle more than the liberal angle, notably on the 2nd Amendment and all the freedoms the liberals neglect to understand that it protects.  And the fact that I'm really into guns right now because it is just another excuse to get outside and be isolated from the morons.  I do live in Portland, OR btw, so liberal over the top attitudes are the norm.  Maybe its just my environment.

However, is it just me, or do some people just think they have all the answers in "cocktail discussion mode."

meh, give me a campfire, a stout rifle and pistol and a trail that none of your wimpy off the showroom floor 4x4s can even hope making it up and I'm a happy camper.  Because I'll be up there.  If your rig can make, I understand, if not, hike up and I'll toss some extra meat on the fire for you for your troubles.

jeepmor
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grampster

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2007, 04:57:22 PM »
The difference between them and me is that I'm right and they're wrong.  angel
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The Rabbi

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2007, 05:01:38 PM »
The difference between them and me is that I'm right and they're wrong.  angel

I'll vouch for that.  Grampster is always right.
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grampster

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2007, 05:13:26 PM »
 grin grin
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2007, 05:26:37 PM »
No, of course we're not self-righteous.  Why, just look at how humble we are!  No, it is they who are self-righteous.  And God will judge them for it.   angel police


Does that make things any clearer?   smiley


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jeepmor

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2007, 05:26:53 PM »
 grin I respect my grandfather's views (RIP recently) more than anyone else's. grin

Clear as mud fistful, but still, clearer than the liberal mud.

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2007, 06:46:55 PM »
jeepmor,

I'm curious what you mean by self-righteousness.  It's not a trick question, I'm just not sure what strikes you as self-righteous.

I don't think you've been singled out for thinking differently.  About the only thing most of us agree on here is the right to keep and bear arms.  And we still have disagreements about what that means.  If you think anyone here was bashing you, rest assured we all bash one another equally.
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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2007, 08:10:55 PM »
If fistful and Rush and Hannity are any indication, conservatives are waaaaaayyyy more self righteous.

Manedwolf

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2007, 09:08:31 PM »
Hannity?

Then you didn't hear Alan Colmes, after the debate last night, smugly trying to get Ghouliani to admit that the Brady bill caused a drop in crime, which is a total lie. It was a "want to reach through the TV and whack upside the head" level of smugness.

The overall difference to me is that while conservatives tend to propose solutions based on the fact that the real world is a nasty, gritty, brutish place where there are indeed bad guys who wish to kill you out there, liberals propose utopian solutions based on a reality that never existed and never will. In doing so, they leave us vulnerable to those vicious sorts, and in doing so, have enabled the bloodiest leftist dictators of the past century.

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2007, 09:10:38 PM »
Conservative-wise, there are pretty much two camps... The religious right (which defected enmasse from the democrats in the seventies), and the folks who are just freaked out and disgusted by it all, who tend to be made up largely of fiscal/economic conservatives...
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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2007, 10:08:11 PM »
The Left believes in the power of technocracy and that a strong theory of behavior will overcome reality.

The Right knows all that Commie stuff is garbage, and that anyone who buys into that will burn in Hell for all eternity--knowing beyond question that their own *expletive deleted*it don't stink at all.

It's a toss up.  And I'm sick of both of them.
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jeepmor

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2007, 11:27:18 PM »
Quote
I'm curious what you mean by self-righteousness.

I just know a few liberals that think they have all the answers, but realistically, they're just whining about the current crop in administration at present.  I am a person that does entertain the conspiracy theories to the degree that too many facts line up that don't get adequate answers.  For example, the blast cut looking steel in some 9/11 photos.  I discussed the steel itself and just went and found a picture of an image to discuss.  I was then ridiculed for where the image came from and the topic degraded to namecalling on some peoeple's parts from there.  When it degraded to name calling, that's when I consider the arguers self righteous.

Quote
The overall difference to me is that while conservatives tend to propose solutions based on the fact that the real world is a nasty, gritty, brutish place where there are indeed bad guys who wish to kill you out there, liberals propose utopian solutions based on a reality that never existed and never will.

Well put, and this is a distinct difference between myself and some of my more liberal friends.  They tend to argue in idealistic utopian terms, I tend to argue in realistic terms.  This creates some long discussions.  I just had one a few night ago with a liberal leaning friend and he seem somehow convinced the entire world operates on a somewhat fair basis, or should, Idealistically anyhow.  It doesn't, never has, and this is where it quickly segways to this....rolleyes  I've had physics related arguements with folks who don't know anything about physics degrade to namecalling all based upon the first law of thermodynamics.

I also tend to lack good arguement skills in regards to politics myself and often "step in it" by choosing my words improperly or not doing adequate homework first.  But, as all things internet, I tend to think people are a little overboard on forums compared to when you meet them out in the world.

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.

"Oh, so now you're saying they don't have a right to whine about their First Amendment rights?  Fascist."  -fistul

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2007, 12:03:38 AM »
I'm sick of politics in general.

It's one thing to say, "The [liberals|conservatives] are wrong because..."

It's another thing to say, "The [liberals|conservatives] ARE ALL STUPID BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE..."

The latter is what we have now.  Sometimes the conservatives are right in my eyes.  (gun rights, illegal immigration, religious freedom, etc) and sometimes I think the liberals are right (Health care, workers rights, the war in Iraq, etc).

Being wrong doesn't make them stupid.
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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2007, 01:38:43 AM »
I tend to have a more respect for the conservatives who are of the belief, "Let's stick with what works until something is proven to work better" than for liberals who subscribe to the definition of insanity: "This didn't work several times, so let's do it some more."
Personally, I prefer self-righteous conservatives who basically leave people alone to learn the hard way even though they might give you no pity & several "I told you so's" afterwards. Since I don't mind constructive criticism and don't seek pity, this is ok by me. Liberals tend to want to micromanage your affairs with the attitude that they know what's best for you better than you do. This rubs against my wanting to be left the heck alone.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2007, 01:58:32 AM »
If fistful and Rush and Hannity are any indication, conservatives are waaaaaayyyy more self righteous.


This is great!  Wow, I've really gotten under your skin, huh?  Yes!   cheesy


jeepmor, I don't think self-righteous is the term you're looking for.  Name-calling doesn't have a lot to do with  self-righteousness.
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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2007, 05:49:13 AM »
Quote
I'm curious what you mean by self-righteousness.

I just know a few liberals that think they have all the answers, but realistically, they're just whining about the current crop in administration at present.  I am a person that does entertain the conspiracy theories to the degree that too many facts line up that don't get adequate answers.  For example, the blast cut looking steel in some 9/11 photos.  I discussed the steel itself and just went and found a picture of an image to discuss.  I was then ridiculed for where the image came from and the topic degraded to namecalling on some peoeple's parts from there.  When it degraded to name calling, that's when I consider the arguers self righteous.

Quote
The overall difference to me is that while conservatives tend to propose solutions based on the fact that the real world is a nasty, gritty, brutish place where there are indeed bad guys who wish to kill you out there, liberals propose utopian solutions based on a reality that never existed and never will.

Well put, and this is a distinct difference between myself and some of my more liberal friends.  They tend to argue in idealistic utopian terms, I tend to argue in realistic terms.  This creates some long discussions.  I just had one a few night ago with a liberal leaning friend and he seem somehow convinced the entire world operates on a somewhat fair basis, or should, Idealistically anyhow.  It doesn't, never has, and this is where it quickly segways to this....rolleyes  I've had physics related arguements with folks who don't know anything about physics degrade to namecalling all based upon the first law of thermodynamics.

I also tend to lack good arguement skills in regards to politics myself and often "step in it" by choosing my words improperly or not doing adequate homework first.  But, as all things internet, I tend to think people are a little overboard on forums compared to when you meet them out in the world.

"Conservatism is, at best, a partial philosophy of life."
----Jonah Goldberg

I not only agree with JG on the above point, I think it is one of the things that keeps conservatives (in all their flavors) in America from getting utopian in (political) outlook and keeps them more flexible in their (political) alliances.*

I also think the left is much more invested in their ideology as a total philosophy, with the repercussions that entails.

One example of the difference in attitudes would be Christopher Hitchens.  Truly, a man of the left over the years and not friendly to tradition, social conservatism, or the like (He wrote a hatchet bio of Mother Teresa and one of the recent god & Christian-despising athiest books, for the love of Pete).  Yet, when he strayed off the path of leftist orthodoxy with regard to the war on militant Islam, he was excoriated and effectively excommunicated from the left.  He still hates God, religion, pro-lifers, and all...but because of his break with orthodoxy on one topic, he is no longer welcome in lefty circles. 

One of the reasons for the growth of conservative philosophy and action in the last few decades is because the left has been active on so many fronts.  Even if you do not think that some topics ought to be politicized, conservatives have had to organize and develop counter-arguments for the damnedest of things folks would not have considered political, just to keep living life without some lefty social-engineer bending you over and giving it to you up the poop chute.

It is my opinion that total political philosophies and belief in the plastic/perfectibility of human nature are the prerequisites of totalitarian societies, as we have seen since the French Revolution.  Political philosophies that are partial and leave room for spheres without political content as well as a belief that human nature is immutable & imperfect are much less likely to lead to mass-murder and agents of the state crawling over the citizenry.


* You see some brittleness, lately, as some of the members of the fusionist conservative movement have gotten more doctrinaire the past few years.  This is most apparent on (but not confined to) the libertarian side of the tent, as libertarians have drifted into utopian territory.
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HankB

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2007, 07:53:13 AM »
Assuming we're not considering the extreme fringe on either side, it's been my observation that conservatives are more willing to engage in a reasonable debate about the issue of the day, be it gun control, nationalized health care, global warming, or whatever. (Note that I didn't mention abortion, evolution, or drug laws.)

Liberals appear to be more likely to say things like "The time for debate is OVER" or attempt to have "someone" take punitive action against those they disagree with - they often prefer to silence the opposition, rather than meet it with a reasoned response.

And . . . they're less likely to take a "live and let live" attitude . . . on more issues, they're more likely to want to impose THEIR ideas on you; unlike conservatives whose idea of "rights" involve basically the right to live your life without hinderance so long as you don't harm others, liberals think nothing of imposing obligations on you, whether you're willing or not.

That, to me, does much to define "self-rightous."
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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2007, 07:54:51 AM »
Oh hell yes.

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2007, 08:29:26 AM »
I'm with Ladysmith. They can be as self-righteous as liberals, but because it's usually of the less government, leave me the hell alone variety, it's much easier to take and less annoying than a pseudo-pedantic, nagging lefty telling me what I should drive, eat, and generally do.
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JonnyB

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2007, 09:40:59 AM »
Assuming we're not considering the extreme fringe on either side, it's been my observation that conservatives are more willing to engage in a reasonable debate about the issue of the day, be it gun control, nationalized health care, global warming, or whatever. (Note that I didn't mention abortion, evolution, or drug laws.)

Liberals appear to be more likely to say things like "The time for debate is OVER" or attempt to have "someone" take punitive action against those they disagree with - they often prefer to silence the opposition, rather than meet it with a reasoned response.

And . . . they're less likely to take a "live and let live" attitude . . . on more issues, they're more likely to want to impose THEIR ideas on you; unlike conservatives whose idea of "rights" involve basically the right to live your life without hinderance so long as you don't harm others, liberals think nothing of imposing obligations on you, whether you're willing or not.

That, to me, does much to define "self-rightous."

Having watched portions of the handgun carry bill discussion in the Minnesota Senate in 2003, I have to agree. It was amazing to hear some of the (so-called) arguments against people carrying guns from the left. The supporters, nearly all Republicans, were exceedingly logical and calm while the opponents were (in a couple cases) sobbing about how our children would be gunned down by gun-toting devils.

The facts have spoken loudly in nearly every case they argue (and, of course, don't support their argument) but they plow on, relying on emotion and utopian thinking to carry them forward.

And besides, they know what's best for us. *That* typifies self-righteous thinking for me.

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jnojr

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2007, 10:53:29 AM »
When you're right, you're right.  It's easy to be perceived as "self righteous" for insisting that 2+2=4 in the face of all the arguments to the contrary.

When someone else makes an argument that my freedom can be restricted, that they might know better than I how I should live my life, that I owe them or someone else a living, yes, I might become "self righteous" in my denials of their claims.  Of course, the label of "self righteousness" in such situations is applied in an attempt to undermine me, personally, since they cannot undermine the basic rightness of my position.

I'm perfectly willing to consider another viewpoint in an argument where another viewpoint has some legitimacy, or some possibility of being correct.  But only a fool would lend the slightest credence to a claim that 2+2 really equals 5, because it just isn't fair that it should equal 4.

wooderson

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2007, 11:46:00 AM »
How many times do we see 'Democrat' get equated with Leninist, gun control with Stalin, affirmative action with "reverse racism," etc. etc. etc.?

Yes, conservatives are equally as self-righteous as liberals.
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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2007, 12:33:09 PM »
Not quite, but they are working on it  laugh
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2007, 12:48:41 PM »
As a so-called conservative, I don't consider myself to be self-righteous, as I question my beliefs constantly to see if they stand the test of logic. I've also grown tired of engaging in long-winded arguments on the internet. If I can't my point in a couple of posts, then I'm either wrong or I'm not doing a good job of making my case.

Liberals tend to react to events by wanting to pass new laws, whereas I would like to repeal laws that don't work. The prohibition on concealed carry in Wisconsin, for example, does not work.

Self-righteousness, though, is a personality trait, not a political ideology.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Are the conservatives as self righteous as the liberals?
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2007, 12:58:27 PM »
How many times do we see 'Democrat' get equated with Leninist, gun control with Stalin, affirmative action with "reverse racism," etc. etc. etc.?

Yes, conservatives are equally as self-righteous as liberals.


How do those things relate to self-righteousness? 
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