Author Topic: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ  (Read 5997 times)

grampster

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2007, 08:24:30 PM »
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"Reid and other Congressional Democrats" represent the absolute worst ethical bankruptcy this country has ever seen.  These whores are completely devoid of any patriotism or statesmanship whatsoever.  Their only focus is on regaining  power and the psychopathic hatred of George Bush.  They are without substance or principles of any kind.  Everything they do and say is measured and poll driven.  Democrats are simply a collection of pussified self serving wimps who don't even deserve to lick Petraeus's boot's let alone be in the same room with him. 

Well said.

"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Euclidean

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2007, 08:27:37 PM »
Ron Paul is simply the new Pat Buchanan.  In one word: Unelectable.

Yep, don't vote for him and he won't win.  Funny how that works.

Yet for some reason his critics never acknowledge that if he got the votes, he'd win just like any other candidate...

Paddy

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2007, 08:56:33 PM »
Ron Paul is simply the new Pat Buchanan.  In one word: Unelectable.

Yep, don't vote for him and he won't win.  Funny how that works.

Yet for some reason his critics never acknowledge that if he got the votes, he'd win just like any other candidate...

So if I vote for him does that mean he wins?

Euclidean

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2007, 09:13:41 PM »
It means he's more likely to.  You just have to get folks to vote for him instead of refusing to vote for him because he's "unelectable".

Calling any candidate (or even a third party) "unelectable" is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Paddy

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2007, 09:18:06 PM »
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Calling any candidate (or even a third party) "unelectable" is a self fulfilling prophecy.

So if I repeatedly call Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Giuliani, Romney, and whoever else is running 'unelectable', we won't have a president come January 20, 2009?

Euclidean

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2007, 09:20:36 PM »
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Calling any candidate (or even a third party) "unelectable" is a self fulfilling prophecy.

So if I repeatedly call Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Giuliani, Romney, and whoever else is running 'unelectable', we won't have a president come January 20, 2009?

If you convince enough people of that, sure, in theory.

In reality I'd cast my lone vote for Dr. Paul, so the Texas Electoral College would return all our state's votes for him, and I guess he'd win since no one else voted.

 grin

Paddy

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2007, 09:33:24 PM »
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If you convince enough people of that, sure, in theory.

So libertarianism=marketing?  That's all there is to it?

Euclidean

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2007, 09:41:55 PM »
Huh?  Sorry I'm tired, but ya lost me there Riles.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2007, 04:26:24 AM »
Oh goody! A Ron Paul thread!
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Manedwolf

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2007, 04:37:57 AM »
RON PAUL! Apply directly to the forehead!
RON PAUL! Apply directly to the forehead!
RON PAUL! Apply directly to the forehead!

I am so, so, SO sick of hearing that guy's name. I'm to the point that I'll vote against him just to shut up the moonie-like supporters!

Perd Hapley

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2007, 05:55:43 AM »
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Manedwolf

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2007, 07:59:48 AM »
Those things are just not comparable. 
All 'character assassination' is not created equal, eh?

Why would it be?  Coulter is a humorist who made a joke about someone's masculinity.  That person happened to be a lawyer publicity whore, posing as a presidential candidate.  The Swift Boaters were criticizing the military record and character of a Senator and presidential candidate. 

Whatever you may think of these things, they're just not the same situation.  Neither Kerry nor Edwards were commanding troops in Iraq.  Their detractors were not hampering our progress in Iraq by a) distracting from the real issue with baseless questions about the messenger's credibility or b) impugning a top military commander before the world. 

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Did anyone here say he was?
When you start equating treating a political individual as part of the political process: yes.
Huh?

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The anger stems from the transparency of the Dem's in judging Petraeus and his report well beforehand, then attacking him rather than actually trying to deal with the real issues in Iraq.
Except that we all do this, continually. We correctly discount the words of anyone with a vested interest - be they a party that stands to profit from a particular outcome, or someone for whom an ideological goal has been set (and thus results may be 'tweaked' to fit a desired outcome). That's all Reid and other Congressional Democrats have done: pointed out that Petraeus's loyalties don't necessarily lie with telling Congress the reality of the situation, but with justifying both Bush & Co plans and his previous statements on the matter.
No.  There is large difference between being wary of bias or ideology, and using the excuse of bias to dismiss any point of view with which one does not agree.  Everyone has a bias, unfortunately, and every thinking person has some sort of ideology. 

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They have to do this because, as illustrated in the WSJ and here, a general's words are treated as absolute fact in the media and by most individuals, who don't want to believe that military leaders are political animals.
What universe do you call home? 

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And, of course, conflating MoveOn with the Congressional leadership is absurd - these are not sects that happily work together or represent the same viewpoints.
Did I do that?  How about Senator Ted Kennedy's pronouncement that Petraeus was only coming to Washington to say that Petraeus was doing a good job?  Or Representative Lantos's statement that Petraeus had only come to declare victory?  As I said, pre-judging the report.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

wooderson

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2007, 09:45:12 AM »
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Why would it be?
Because the horror expressed here is that activists would deign to commit "character assassination" on an individual involved in the public debate.

When, as Swifties and Coulter - and your comments - illustrate, the real horror is that they're criticizing someone the WSJ/APSers/you agree with. Which kinda takes the wind out of the collective self-righteous sails around here, as far as I'm concerned.

If anyone wants to bitch and moan about 'character assassination,' let them bitch and moan about it in regard to both sides, not just their own.

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There is large difference between being wary of bias or ideology, and using the excuse of bias to dismiss any point of view with which one does not agree
Except that I see nothing from the Times, Reid or other Democrats quoted that makes this a relevant point. All three don't "dismiss" Petraeus - they state (again, correctly), that Petraeus has made his position known in the past, and has had, shall we say, lapses in the factuality of his statements in regard to Iraq.

Only MoveOn - again, the equivalent of Swift Boaters and Annie - has said anything stronger or made this an ad hominem issue. MoveOn does not speak for Congressional leadership. Nor does Congressional leadership speak for MoveOn. To argue otherwise is ignorant of the workings of the Democratic Party.

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Did I do that?
Yes.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

Sergeant Bob

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2007, 12:22:59 PM »
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Perd Hapley

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2007, 09:14:01 AM »
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Why would it be?
Because the horror expressed here is that activists would deign to commit "character assassination" on an individual involved in the public debate.

No, that isn't true.  You just utterly miss the point.  Further discussion seems useless.


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Did I do that? [Conflate MoveOn with Congressional Democrats]
Yes.
Where? 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

CAnnoneer

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Re: Trashing Petraeus, from WSJ
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2007, 09:49:49 PM »
Successful politicians express the sentiments and attitudes of their supporters. The Dem leadership can allow itself to behave so badly only because their supporters do not hold them accountable for it.