Author Topic: Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?  (Read 2970 times)

esheato

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« on: June 26, 2005, 02:57:16 AM »
I was born a point & shoot type of guy but I eventually moved up to a Canon G2 4mp a few years ago. I've learned that playing with the settings and experimenting with different photographic techniques is a lot of fun. I'm handy with computers, digital photos and Photoshop so naturally, I'm considering taking that big step to the SLR type camera...

...but I'm scared.  I've never used one and I don't know if I would use one to it's ability. Since Canon has been good to me, I've been looking at their website and reading some reviews on www.dpreview.com. The new Digital Rebel XT 8mp looks pretty sweet and "cheap" compared to some of the other cameras they make. Lots of accessories to look into also. The selection of lenses and add-ons is dizzying though.

Is it worth it?
Is this an appropriate entry level SLR camera?
How difficult is the learning curve? Especially coming from an "advanced P&S" type of camera?
Someone teach me about lens and their numbering systems; what lenses to buy? What would you need?

I guess I shoud hit up the camera shop when I get back home.

Ed

BTW, it looks like I'm coming back to the States...a little early even. Smiley

Telperion

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2005, 08:43:49 AM »
I think it depends on your style of photography.  Are you ok with carrying a bulky 2-4 lb. camera around to take pictures?  For what I do, it works well, but I know I miss some shots because the camera is just too big to take everywhere.

The rebel XT looks good; I have the regular digital rebel/EOS 300.  Now I wish I had waited because there's a "custom function" on the XT that's unavailable on the rebel, and that drives me nuts since I'm used to it from my film Canons.  DSLRs all have modes where they will function like a P&S.  You push the button, it takes care of deciding the exposure, whether to use flash, and what the white balance should be.  Once you figure out basic operation, try experimenting with the aperture and shutter priority modes.

As far as lenses go, I have always been disappointed with the quality of Canon's consumer zoom lenses.  They suffer from poor construction and inferior and slow optics.  The professional L-series zooms are redeeming, but expensive.  A lot of people recommend grabbing a fixed-length lens to start with, since it forces you to think about framing and composition.  This is what I did, buying a 50mm lens to start with.  If you can afford a pro zoom or can find good used lenses, avoid the kit package and buy the camera body-only.

Brad Johnson

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2005, 07:10:07 AM »
The XT350 (the new 8MP Rebel) is a bit pricey since it's new. You can pick up a 300 (the 6.1MP version) on e-bay for a good price. I got mine, along with two bags, the 18-55 lens, and a polarizer and UV/haze filter for $525 shipped. It was used, but was in pristine condition with nary a scratch. I already have a stable full of Canon EOS lenses, so the purchase allowed me to expand into the digital realm.

I looked at the 350, but decided to stick with the 300 mainly for the price and the fact that the image quality is still excellent. In large image/fine resolution mode I've blown up the images to as large as 30 x 20 without any noticeable pixellation. The images on this thread were taken on small image/fine resolution mode....

Click here --> http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/viewtopic.php?id=875

And one of the pics in 800 x 600 format....

http://photos17.flickr.com/20932319_14403f9d9c_o_d.jpg

I, too, was hesitant at first. However, I've found that the digital is actually making me a better photog. I can see my shot immediately, and can correct any problems. I can also see what I'm doing wrong instead of waiting for the images to be developed and then wondering what I did to screw up a particular shot. I started out in Auto mode, but quickly graduated to Full Manual (or at least one of the priority modes). The only thing I miss about my film camera is the ability to go multi-image for more than three shots. But I keep my film body handy for just those occasions.

Hope this helps!

Brad
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Standing Wolf

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2005, 04:19:23 PM »
Quote
...I don't know if I would use one to it's ability.
Nobody canand you meant "its" without an apostrophe rather than "it's" with.
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Harold Tuttle

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2005, 04:47:49 PM »
dSLRs do not preview the image to be taken on the LCD like the point & shoot digicams
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cfabe

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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2005, 05:19:23 PM »
No, they preview it in the viewfinder like a normal camera...

lwsimon

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2005, 07:27:39 PM »
YES!!! They are worth it!  I have a Nikon D70 and LOVE it!  I can't talk to you anymore though if you buy a DRebel, jsut so you know! Smiley

esheato

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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2005, 01:08:50 AM »
Thanks for the responses. Seeing that I've read mostly positive comments and reviews, I should probably take the leap. I'm not real keen on carrying another object around, but I could always get a small camera bag and tuck it in my truck when I'm out on adventures.

I'm torn between buying the body only and an appropriate all-around lens or the kit. I've heard less than positive reviews on the kit lens though.

I've also read that dSLRs have a more shallow DOF (depth of field). I understand the definition, but how does that affect the setup and outcome of the photograph?

Thanks again..

Ed

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lwsimon

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2005, 02:05:46 AM »
If you dont' already have Canon lenses, I suggest you really look at the D70 or D70s.  Since the D70s is out, the D70 is discounted, and you might be able to find one for $700 or so with the kit lens.  The kit lens on this camera is EXCELLENT.  If you would like, I can post some examples, but you won't be disappointed.  

Also, don't forget the "crop factor".  Nikon's is 1.5, Canon's is 1.6.  That means a 100mm lens is a 150mm on a Nikon and 160mm on a Canon.  This is very nice for wildlife and such, but it means a true wide angle is like $1,500.  OTOH, I've found the 18mm (27mm effective) to be wide enough for everything I've wanted.

If you have any questions, email me, I'll be glad to help, or jsut help you shop around.

lwsimon

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2005, 02:27:04 AM »
Here you go, a sample: http://i.pbase.com/v3/69/519669/2/45413519._DSC4593.jpg

And for full resolution - all 3.5MB of it - http://i.pbase.com/v3/69/519669/1/45413519._DSC4593.jpg

Photo was taken under studio lighting, ISO 200, 1/2500th, f/7.1, 38mm.  The lens was the kit lens (18-70 f/3.5-4.5G DX).

K Frame

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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2005, 05:26:49 AM »
A coworker just got a Nikon dSLR off of eBay. Very sweet, and takes great pix.
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Telperion

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« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2005, 06:41:50 AM »
esheato- DSLRs do not have a shallow DOF, but they allow you to open the lens aperture wide and obtain a very shallow DOF.  Or you can dial down the aperture so everything in the frame is sharp.  Another reason to avoid the kit lens is it tends to top out around f/3.5-f/4, meaning you won't be able to experiment with very open aperture settings.

Brad Johnson

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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2005, 07:09:21 AM »
The kit lens works fine for general photgraphy, and is certainly a sight better than the optics on most point & shoots. However, the purchase of good glass is always rewarded with better pics.

Brad
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lwsimon

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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2005, 08:04:32 AM »
Quote
However, the purchase of good glass is always rewarded with better pics.
Only if you know how to use it.  If you're just stepping up to a dSLR, chances are the kit lens is going to be all you need.  Unless you're doing something with very shallow DoF, or in very low light, the 18-70DX is great.  For low light and DoF, you can pick up a 50mm f/1.8 lens for just over $100, or an 85mm f/1.8 for $300.

Brad Johnson

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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2005, 12:38:35 PM »
Quote
Only if you know how to use it.  If you're just stepping up to a dSLR, chances are the kit lens is going to be all you need.
Completely agree. I was mentioning the better glass for the shutterbugs like me that really get into the minute details of their pics. Using my Canon 28-70 EF/L the pics have noticeably better and brighter colors, and some fine details come across with more clarity, but only in the biggest enlargements. Plus, the fast f/2.8 plus zoom gives me a lot of leeway in low light or when I choose to use a stacked filter setup. Finally, if I ever get the funds together to step up to a higher resolution camera body I already have the lensing power to take advantage of it. However, the cost for this much lense is prohibitive unless you are a hard-core amateur photog like me. For everyday use the kit lense is plenty.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

esheato

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2005, 09:54:10 PM »
Good info...One last question and I'll leave ya'll alone.

I hear a lot of people talk about photo processing. What is usually involved? How much processing is required to have a good final product? If we're talking about a few small adjustments, it's no big deal. On the other end of the spectrum, several hours of tweaking in PS would be a little much and I'd question the capabilities of the camera or operator.

I'm assuming that it is minor adjustments to brightness, contrast, and sharpness. Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks

Ed

Brad Johnson

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« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2005, 07:54:44 AM »
Depends on the native image. Some images just nail the look and feel you wanted, and it's better to leave well enough alone. Usually there is a spot or two that can benfit from a touch of color correction, or maybe some changes in brightness, contrast, or color saturation. Above all, resist the urge to "over-correct" your photos. All too often you see photos that were obviously modified digitally. It's distracting to the viewer and usually ruins the feel of the photo.

More than anything, try to rely as little as possible on digital manipulation of your photos as a corrector for bad photography. Concentrate on getting the in-camera image as correct as possible, then polish it with some minor digital tweaks. You'll end up with a much better photo, not to mention more personal satisfaction with your performance as a photographer.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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Standing Wolf

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2005, 07:45:20 PM »
Quote
What is usually involved? How much processing is required to have a good final product? If we're talking about a few small adjustments, it's no big deal. On the other end of the spectrum, several hours of tweaking in PS would be a little much and I'd question the capabilities of the camera or operator.
That's entirely up to you, your skills as a photographer, your mastery of Photoshop, and of course, the element of luck.

I doubt I've ever taken a digital photograph that didn't require at least a little work in Photoshop, and can assure you I never worked with a scanned transparency that didn't require at least a certain amount.

I'm a painter who dabbles in photography, so my perspective may be a step or two off the beaten path. It's a rare photographvery rarethat runs the full gamut from true black to nothing at all without suffering losses in the mid-tones. Do you actually want the full gamut? Are the mid-tones too blue? Are the highlights too red?

Once you've got the fundamental stuff squared away, working digitally enables you to start the what-if? process. What if I desaturate the shadows 21% and pump up the blues in the mid-tones? What if I pull back the highlights and do a judicious bit of blurring there to offset the sharpened mid-tones? What if...? Where to sharpen? Where to add contrast? Where to add light?

If you literally read the Photoshop manual from cover to cover a time or two, and invest a few months figuring out what's what in the LAB color space, you'll suddenly discover photographs as taken by cameras are a wonderful starting place.

If you want to do more, there's a brand new world waiting for you. For your sake, I hope you have more sense: it can be enormously addictive.
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Oleg Volk

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2005, 03:51:21 PM »
Well-worth it. My tiny point-and-shoot is greatly inferior to my 10D...which, in turn, is somewhat inferior to a 1D mk2 in image quality and greatly inferior in handling. Same is true of lenses -- a 100mm macro or a 135/2 would have image quality (sharpness, flare resistance, focusing speed) much better than a consumer-grade zoom.

Working against the handicaps imposed by equipment is hard and frustrating. For example, I can get maybe 5% technically usable images with a low-end camera, 60% with a mid-range one and 80-90% with a high-end camera. Good gear -- cameras, lighting and lenses -- really work. They won't compensate for lack of skill but they will let you make the most of whatever skill level you have.

dSLR interfaces are much easier that P&S interfaces, IMO.

(ISO 400, 10D, borrowed 50/1.4 -- my own 50/1.8 wasn't nearly as good)

For priorities, I'd go with lenses-->camera, with camera or lights being your choice.

esheato

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2005, 10:11:34 PM »
Well, I did it. I picked up a Canon Digital Rebel XT this morning. Image color and clarity are steps above my P&S. Batteries are charging right now, but I think I like this. Wink

Thanks again,

Ed

garrettwc

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Cameras...Are dSLRs worth it?
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2005, 04:29:06 AM »
Quote from: esheato
Well, I did it. I picked up a Canon Digital Rebel XT this morning. Image color and clarity are steps above my P&S. Batteries are charging right now, but I think I like this. Wink

Thanks again,

Ed
Now you've done it. There's no turning back when you get bitten by the bug.

There is a summer pics thread in here somewhere. As soon as the batteries charge you should start off right and make a contribution to that thread. Smiley

mfree

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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2005, 04:45:42 AM »
My friend works with a Canon EOS 20D... see the results for yourself. http://www.flickr.com/photos/cariephoto

esheato

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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2005, 06:07:39 AM »
I'll try to compose something and contribute. I've got the equipment, if I only had the skills. Wink

Ed