So, what's this going on up in Chicago?

[De Selby]

An example that shootinstudent will understand is the way that the Iraqis are, allegedly, favoring Iran-friendly political parties.  I've never heard that anywhere, but from him.  I'm sure those news-stories are out there, somewhere, so I could learn about them.  But, like most Americans, I don't read thirteen newspapers per day, or follow every news report that comes out of the Middle East. 

Good example.

Just because something isn't widely noticed doesn't mean it's unreported, and a lot of time, lack of reporting has some rather benign and common sense reasons.  You don't read about every homicide in every city in America, even though they're all horrible, because most of the time they are local, rather than national, stories.  And stories that become national do so for a multitude of reasons-not because the victims were this or that color. 

[Scout26]

I think here are the reasons this case went national:

1) Husband is a cop
2) Age difference  between them (he's 53, she's 23) and they started dating when she was 17.
3) He's been married 4 times
4) Mrs #3 died under "questionable" circumstances (Drowned in 'empty' bathtub), after cops responded 18 times to there home.
5) Mrs #3 sent a "I think my husband is going to kill me" letter to the State's Attorney.

[Matthew Carberry]

I don't think there's ever been a single mass murder of black people by whites in America that was not _____________ motivated by racism, which explains why the media would naturally speculate on racism for such crimes, and generally does not assume racism when there is an office shooting, a serial killer, or a missing persons case.

I would suggest that the word "allegedly" or "presumably" or "assumedly" or something a little less definitive be inserted there. 

When a white person kills blacks, or a straight person assaults gays, or most any other "majority" on "other" group crime occurs, "hate" is seemingly always presumptively assumed, even when there is no actual evidence to that effect (other than the identity of each) or the perpetrator has even stated their motive was "neutrally" criminal.

In the Wichita and Knoxville cases, IIRC, the perpetrators explicitly stated racist motives to their victims (well the surviving one reported slurs and such statements) and to their interrogators.

That's a big difference, hate is assumed (and usually prosecuted for regardless of real evidence) when it's "white on minority" while the authorities are quick to state that there is no "hate crime angle" in most "minority on white" incidents.

That's an extant double standard that brain-dead PC thinking has created.  The insistence that non-PC motivations make the exact same crimes somehow "worse" and deserving of more severe (versus merely equivilent) punishments.

It's time for hate crime (essentially thought crime) laws to be cast onto the dust heap of history with other racial/group based laws.

[De Selby]

carebear,

I was responding specifically to the prediction that a mass murder of black people by whites would be treated as a racist crime.  The reason I think it is played that way in the media is that such crimes historically have in fact been racist crimes-I don't mean that every crime committed against minorities by whites is racist, or should be presumed to be racist.  That is obviously wrong and unthinking, which you are right to point out.

A remedy that treats crimes equally, black or white, is a good thing to seek.  But what some people are doing when they find a supposed media cover-up of black on white crime, is turning around and doing the exact same sort of thing that the race-baiters are doing on the other end of the spectrum. 

To continue with your ideas on hate crimes laws, complaining about the media coverage of one particular crime by trotting out other crimes and alleging a racial cover-up, is like trying to remedy inequalities in hate-crime law by prosecuting more minorities for hate crimes, rather than questioning the faulty premises behind the law.

[Tecumseh]

The real issue is the fact that this man was a LEO.  He may have murdered his previous wife and there are a lot of suspicions about this guy.  Its shameful but if I was to judge I dont think he should be wearing a badge. 

Hopefully he is not allowed to carry a firearm while he is under investigation for the safety of others and for the community.

[Tecumseh]

I don't think there's ever been a single mass murder of black people by whites in America that was not _____________ motivated by racism, which explains why the media would naturally speculate on racism for such crimes, and generally does not assume racism when there is an office shooting, a serial killer, or a missing persons case.

I would suggest that the word "allegedly" or "presumably" or "assumedly" or something a little less definitive be inserted there. 

When a white person kills blacks, or a straight person assaults gays, or most any other "majority" on "other" group crime occurs, "hate" is seemingly always presumptively assumed, even when there is no actual evidence to that effect (other than the identity of each) or the perpetrator has even stated their motive was "neutrally" criminal.

In the Wichita and Knoxville cases, IIRC, the perpetrators explicitly stated racist motives to their victims (well the surviving one reported slurs and such statements) and to their interrogators.

That's a big difference, hate is assumed (and usually prosecuted for regardless of real evidence) when it's "white on minority" while the authorities are quick to state that there is no "hate crime angle" in most "minority on white" incidents.

That's an extant double standard that brain-dead PC thinking has created.  The insistence that non-PC motivations make the exact same crimes somehow "worse" and deserving of more severe (versus merely equivilent) punishments.

It's time for hate crime (essentially thought crime) laws to be cast onto the dust heap of history with other racial/group based laws.

No the reason for this is that these people are likely to harm others simply for the other person being another race or ethnicity.  While in other crimes more issues come into play. 

[Matthew Carberry]

I don't give a rip "why" someone committed unjustifiable murder or who they murdered. 

They committed murder, send them to prison.  End of story.

[richyoung]

Rich,

I live in Chattanooga, two hours south of Knoxville. Same state. The media here barely touched that story. I knew of it because I am a junky, and read probably a dozen different papers. That horrible incident is why I always carry on dates, and am willing to go for broke if hell comes.

Please take this the way I mean it - God please you, and keep your powder dry...

Stay safe -

Rich

[richyoung]

If you think the MSM * DOESN'T * cover up for "non-white" criminals, try googling "Wichita Massacre"...  odds are it will be the first time you heard of THAT one, either....

Actually I have-an apartment full of people who were brutally tortured and then executed in the snow (save one survivor).  The fact that it wasn't as big as Lacie Peterson's disappearance does not have anything to do with the race of the attackers or the victims.  You will have to accept that not every horrible crime will make the news-if every single such homicide were publicized, we'd have no time for any news but murders.

So no, I don't think the MSM covers up for non-white criminals.  What possible reason would there be for that? Is there some powerful minority criminal lobby out there ready to hammer them for reporting crime???

What I do notice is that both whites and non-whites of certain persuasions make a HUGE stink about victims of their race going unnoticed, and accusing the media of "covering up violence against whites" and alternatively of "not caring about just another black victim".  That is where race comes in-there's rarely evidence that race is a factor in these crimes, but there's always someone willing to jump on the bandwagon to declare this or that crime a casualty in the war of the races. 

Myself, I try to not see racism behind every tree, and I recognize that most of these crimes are what they are-atrocious crimes committed by thugs, irrespective of their races.  I'd rather not be part of the race-baiting and racially charged conflict that follows, and a quick search of the kinds of websites that waive the Wichita Massacre and Channon Christen banners will show everyone what kinds of groups are feuling the cries of racism surrounding those two particular crimes.

Does the fact that the Nazi's were the first to publicice the Katyn forrest massacres somehow make them less relevant?  Their victims less dead?  What difference does the SOURCE make, provided it providedes a TRUTHFUL RECORD OF EVENTS?

[richyoung]

didn;t have much chance to ignore race when Tawana Brawley (African-American) accused white people of raping her and writing racial slurs on her - Al Shartpton et al were all OVER that one - (until it turned out as false as the Duke case....).

Not that I would wish it on ANYONE, but if a BLACK couple were carjacked, raped for 4 days, mutilated and killed by alleged WHITE perpetrators, the media frenzy would be ON!

This is a good point-look at the guys who were all over the Duke case making it into a giant racial issue.  Why would you want to copy them?

The people who trot out these stories of murders and then declare "WHITE VICTIMS! No coverage!" are doing exactly the same thing that Al and Jesse did to the Duke players.  Pointing out that it happens both ways shouldn't justify you doing the same thing that the Reverends did to the Duke players, should it?

Here's a clue, free of charge...it "did't happen both ways" - the Duke case was a fraud from the get-go - any person could see that - yet the MSM shoved it down everyone's throat for over a year.  Neither the Wichita Massacre nor the KNoxville horror were fake - multiple people graveyard dead, AFTER torture.  Yet not a peep.  So you see, they aren;t the same...

.

[Tecumseh]

didn;t have much chance to ignore race when Tawana Brawley (African-American) accused white people of raping her and writing racial slurs on her - Al Shartpton et al were all OVER that one - (until it turned out as false as the Duke case....).

Not that I would wish it on ANYONE, but if a BLACK couple were carjacked, raped for 4 days, mutilated and killed by alleged WHITE perpetrators, the media frenzy would be ON!

This is a good point-look at the guys who were all over the Duke case making it into a giant racial issue.  Why would you want to copy them?

The people who trot out these stories of murders and then declare "WHITE VICTIMS! No coverage!" are doing exactly the same thing that Al and Jesse did to the Duke players.  Pointing out that it happens both ways shouldn't justify you doing the same thing that the Reverends did to the Duke players, should it?

Here's a clue, free of charge...it "did't happen both ways" - the Duke case was a fraud from the get-go - any person could see that - yet the MSM shoved it down everyone's throat for over a year.  Neither the Wichita Massacre nor the KNoxville horror were fake - multiple people graveyard dead, AFTER torture.  Yet not a peep.  So you see, they aren;t the same...

.

Any how many black men were victimized?  Look at some of the men on the Innocence Projects website.  What about Amadou Diallo?  Why are so many more black men imprisoned then white men?  please explain that.

[Matthew Carberry]

Wrongful acts don't justify wrongful acts...

[Perd Hapley]

Why are so many more black men imprisoned then white men?  please explain that. 

Glad to.  We don't put enough white boys behind bars.  More punishment for criminals of both races, I say. 

[Matthew Carberry]

Why are so many more black men imprisoned then white men?  please explain that.

Drug laws.

[richyoung]

didn;t have much chance to ignore race when Tawana Brawley (African-American) accused white people of raping her and writing racial slurs on her - Al Shartpton et al were all OVER that one - (until it turned out as false as the Duke case....).

Not that I would wish it on ANYONE, but if a BLACK couple were carjacked, raped for 4 days, mutilated and killed by alleged WHITE perpetrators, the media frenzy would be ON!

This is a good point-look at the guys who were all over the Duke case making it into a giant racial issue.  Why would you want to copy them?

The people who trot out these stories of murders and then declare "WHITE VICTIMS! No coverage!" are doing exactly the same thing that Al and Jesse did to the Duke players.  Pointing out that it happens both ways shouldn't justify you doing the same thing that the Reverends did to the Duke players, should it?

Here's a clue, free of charge...it "did't happen both ways" - the Duke case was a fraud from the get-go - any person could see that - yet the MSM shoved it down everyone's throat for over a year.  Neither the Wichita Massacre nor the KNoxville horror were fake - multiple people graveyard dead, AFTER torture.  Yet not a peep.  So you see, they aren;t the same...

.

Any how many black men were victimized?  Look at some of the men on the Innocence Projects website.  What about Amadou Diallo?  Why are so many more black men imprisoned then white men?  please explain that.

Here's a possibilty...THEY BROKE THE LAW!

[Tecumseh]

didn;t have much chance to ignore race when Tawana Brawley (African-American) accused white people of raping her and writing racial slurs on her - Al Shartpton et al were all OVER that one - (until it turned out as false as the Duke case....).

Not that I would wish it on ANYONE, but if a BLACK couple were carjacked, raped for 4 days, mutilated and killed by alleged WHITE perpetrators, the media frenzy would be ON!

This is a good point-look at the guys who were all over the Duke case making it into a giant racial issue.  Why would you want to copy them?

The people who trot out these stories of murders and then declare "WHITE VICTIMS! No coverage!" are doing exactly the same thing that Al and Jesse did to the Duke players.  Pointing out that it happens both ways shouldn't justify you doing the same thing that the Reverends did to the Duke players, should it?

Here's a clue, free of charge...it "did't happen both ways" - the Duke case was a fraud from the get-go - any person could see that - yet the MSM shoved it down everyone's throat for over a year.  Neither the Wichita Massacre nor the KNoxville horror were fake - multiple people graveyard dead, AFTER torture.  Yet not a peep.  So you see, they aren;t the same...

.

Any how many black men were victimized?  Look at some of the men on the Innocence Projects website.  What about Amadou Diallo?  Why are so many more black men imprisoned then white men?  please explain that.

Here's a possibilty...THEY BROKE THE LAW!

  And why are whites given less time or no time for beaking the same laws?  Do you really think that 1/3 black men is a meaninless statistic?  Why is a minority being overwhelmingly represented in prison populations?

[richyoung]

And why are whites given less time or no time for beaking the same laws? 

Proof for that stuff in red, please?

Do you really think that 1/3 black men is a meaninless statistic?

Did they break the law?

  Why is a minority being overwhelmingly represented in prison populations?

Because if we cut them any slack, people like you will complain that "those who prey on minorities aren't punished the same as those who victimize whites" - since the overwhelming majority of black and brown perpetrated crime is against....black and brown victims.

[De Selby]

didn;t have much chance to ignore race when Tawana Brawley (African-American) accused white people of raping her and writing racial slurs on her - Al Shartpton et al were all OVER that one - (until it turned out as false as the Duke case....).

Not that I would wish it on ANYONE, but if a BLACK couple were carjacked, raped for 4 days, mutilated and killed by alleged WHITE perpetrators, the media frenzy would be ON!

This is a good point-look at the guys who were all over the Duke case making it into a giant racial issue.  Why would you want to copy them?

The people who trot out these stories of murders and then declare "WHITE VICTIMS! No coverage!" are doing exactly the same thing that Al and Jesse did to the Duke players.  Pointing out that it happens both ways shouldn't justify you doing the same thing that the Reverends did to the Duke players, should it?

Here's a clue, free of charge...it "did't happen both ways" - the Duke case was a fraud from the get-go - any person could see that - yet the MSM shoved it down everyone's throat for over a year.  Neither the Wichita Massacre nor the KNoxville horror were fake - multiple people graveyard dead, AFTER torture.  Yet not a peep.  So you see, they aren;t the same...

.

If it's so wrong when it happens to white people, why are you doing your best to hype crimes just because the perpertrators are black?  And why do you think it's alright for the racist websites that carry those stories to engage in race-baiting just like the Reverends in the Duke case?

I don't get what you're saying here. Apparently your answer to race baiting against white perps is to do it to black perps.  Am I reading that right?

[richyoung]

If it's so wrong when it happens to white people,....

Close.  Its wrong when it happens to ANYONE, by ANYONE....

"... why are you doing your best to hype crimes just because the perpertrators are black?"

I'm not "hyping" anything.  I'm reporting facts.  I'm reporting actual crimes the MSM ignores, while it "hypes" non-existent crimes like the Duke rape case - which seems indicitive to me of some kind of agenda....

And why do you think it's alright for the racist websites that carry those stories to engage in race-baiting just like the Reverends in the Duke case?

I don't.  Care to quote me where I in any way endorse "race-baiting"?  I don;t endorse the Nazi's, either - however, that does nothing to discredit their reporting of the Katyn Forest Massacre.  I'd be waiting a long time to hear about it from Russian sources...

I don't get what you're saying here. Apparently your answer to race baiting against white perps falsly accused whites caught in a media firestorm   is to do it to factually report horrendous crimes that actually were done by black perps.  Am I reading that right?

Try it now - I fixed it for you....

[ilbob]

I know for a fact that if there is a bank robbery around here and the suspect is a
member of a minority, the report goes something like "Male, 28 to 35 years old,
brown hair,brown eyes,5'10-6'.No mention of race at all!That could be 50%
of the population.
Jeez,don't they think that it might be helpful?

To be honest, that almost always means the suspect is white in my experience.  I rarely see race mentioned unless the suspect isn't white.

the local newspaper around here stopped giving out the suspects race, or publishing photos a while back. claimed it was racist to indicate the suspect's race because most of the suspects were black.

[ilbob]

And why are whites given less time or no time for beaking the same laws? 

This is an over touted claim, that turns out to mostly be based on the disparity in the sentences for cocaine and crack selling. Blacks tend to sell crack, and the penalties are greater. Despite what you might think, selling crack is a different crime than selling cocaine.

Do you really think that 1/3 black men is a meaninless statistic? Why is a minority being overwhelmingly represented in prison populations?

My guess would be that minorities are represented in prison by direct proportion to who is found guilty of serious crimes. In case you have not figured it out, certain racial and/or ethnic groups commit crimes in far greater rates then people not in those groups.

Males commit crimes at greater rates then females. I do not hear you complaining that there are not enough females in prison.

[Perd Hapley]

I do not hear you complaining that there are not enough females in prison. 

He would if he were there.