Author Topic: Latest news: SCOTUS has decided to decide . . .  (Read 2737 times)

AJ Dual

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Re: Latest news: SCOTUS has decided to decide . . .
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2007, 04:46:30 PM »
In relation to what Chris posted, I am betting that the decision will be akin to # 3.

Amen to that. If only for the pragmatic reason that it'll have to be worded that way to get Justice Kennedy on board. my gut tells me that it's better than 60/40 that we'll get our "Heller Win", but that there will indeed be "reasonable restrictions" verbiage of some kind in the decision, and incorporation into the 14th may well be left for yet another decade or century to come.

What will happen:

  • We will celebrate our "win".

    The anti's will begin immediate spin that "They've only wanted reasonable restrictions all along..."

    And we will duke out in the legislature and the courts for the next seventy five years what "reasonable restrictions" actually means.

However diluted it may be, a win will be important. It will at least set a ratchet point past which we can never be pushed again. Probably an NYC, NJ, or California-like level of restrictions. Granted, most people here would consider even that level of RKBA to be TEOTWAWKI, but it's a start.

I also see a slight possibility that D.C. will stoop to such spine twisting sophistry in their arguments, that maybe, just maybe, we'll even get a liberal justice defector, if only because they felt their intelligence was insulted just a bit too far...

I am feeling positive about this. I think all the legitimate constitutional scholarship obviously backs our side, and all the papers and writings of the framers, both the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers, for instance, clearly intended that RKBA be an individual right. The one issue that muddies the waters a bit is that while the Second Amendment is indeed an individual right, the collective right is also in there. The definitions of "well regulated" and "militia" of the time of the founding clearly show that the exercise of the collective right of the Second Amendment during peacetime is virtually indistinguishable from the practice of the individual right anyway. Put simply, it's just citizens with privately held arms either way.

The whole subordinate clause militia talk of how the individual right fosters the collective was a last minute addendum to appease anti-federalists about something that probably should not have been in the BOR, but in the Constitution proper. Although it's probably a good thing. If they hadn't, we'd probably be screwed. The individual RKBA was such a given assumption at the time, that perhaps they may have almost not bothered to include it.
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Chris

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Re: Latest news: SCOTUS has decided to decide . . .
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2007, 04:51:55 PM »
Here's a sudden thought that crossed my mind...what if the libs gear up and put a ton of pressure on DC to dismiss the case.  Give in so that there restrictions won't be challenged.  Move to withdraw the case from SCOTUS as being moot, if teh case is dismissed.  Maybe I'm just untrusting, but I don't trust the antis not to sacrifice this battle to continue the war.

AJ Dual

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Re: Latest news: SCOTUS has decided to decide . . .
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2007, 04:58:30 PM »
Here's a sudden thought that crossed my mind...what if the libs gear up and put a ton of pressure on DC to dismiss the case.  Give in so that there restrictions won't be challenged.  Move to withdraw the case from SCOTUS as being moot, if teh case is dismissed.  Maybe I'm just untrusting, but I don't trust the antis not to sacrifice this battle to continue the war.

Believe me, other big-city lib administrations and several anti front-groups have been doing just that to no avail.

Mayor Fenty is being a very suitable, in the words of Lenin, "useful idiot".  grin It would seem that he and the city government evaluated the risk to them from the rest of the national liberal/anti-gun establishment, and the risk to their power from their own local constituency. And the local constituency they do their usual poverty pimping and blame shifting for under the guise of "government" won out.
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Finch

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Re: Latest news: SCOTUS has decided to decide . . .
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2007, 07:11:59 PM »
Thank God George W Bush was in office to add two strict constructionists to the court.

If this goes right, it may be the only positive thing I could speak about regarding the Bush administration.
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RevDisk

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Re: Latest news: SCOTUS has decided to decide . . .
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2007, 08:23:12 PM »

Declaring the 2A to be absolute, or near absolute.  Sigh, logically, this would be the case.  At least for military firearms.  But I'd bet a case of good wine that the Supreme Court would never make such a ruling because it would be in serious defiance of the status quo.  Likewise, declaring the 2A a collective right allowing all restrictions would likewise be pretty unlikely.  It'd be contrary to a lot of historical record, and unlikely to be acceptable to the general public.  Most likely is the middle ground.  An individual right, but subject to 'reasonable restrictions'.  The antis know this as well as us. 

They are unlikely to drop the case.  The best odds are reaffirming the status quo.  The anti's would deeply love to have the SCOTUS give them some level of legitimacy.  If they drop the case, Chicago and NYC's bans will fall.  If we're lucky, we might be able to attack the Hughes Amendment to FOPA.

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gunsmith

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Re: Latest news: SCOTUS has decided to decide . . .
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2007, 10:43:09 PM »
SCOTUS doesn't want a civil war, I think if they go "collectivist"
it means civil war because even left wing moonbats do not want
a "collectivist" BOR.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Latest news: SCOTUS has decided to decide . . .
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2007, 12:39:43 PM »
I suspect they'll rule as narrowly as possible. It's just the way courts seem to be doing business these days.


DJJ

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Re: Latest news: SCOTUS has decided to decide . . .
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2007, 05:54:18 PM »
That was my thought too, but it's hard to imagine how to narrow this one down. I half expect (cynically) that since Heller is a security guard, they'll say security guards can keep a handgun in DC, but no one else.