Miami: Police taser 6 year old

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200411/s1242761.htm

US police use stun gun on 6-year-old

A United States police officer has used a stun gun on a six-year-old boy to keep him from cutting himself with a piece of broken glass, sparking controversy.

Miami-Dade County police chief Bobby Parker has defended the officer's decision.

"Had the child cut his vein and the officer had not Tasered the child, somebody would be saying, 'well, you had the Taser, why didn't you Taser the child'," Mr Parker told the Miami Herald newspaper.

A Taser is a gun which fires an incapacitating electric charge of 50,000 volts.

At least one local official and many residents have questioned the police officer's actions.

"I really can't believe they did that," County Commissioner Joe Martinez told the newspaper. "This might be a good opportunity to review our policy."

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/florida/news-article.aspx?storyid=27648

MIAMI, FL -- Police in Miami Dade County say they did the right thing when the used a Taser to subdue a six year-old at school.

The school's principal called 911 after the child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass to keep people away from him.

When two Miami-Dade officers arrived the scene the boy had already cut himself under his eye and cut a large gash in his hand.

The officers tried to reason with the boy, but when he started cutting his own leg, they shocked him with a Taser. They then grabbed him to prevent him from hurting himself when he hit the floor and called an ambulance.

Miami Police say the Taser was necessary to prevent the boy from seriously harming himself with the glass.

Today Governor Jeb Bush told the Associated Press he doesn't know the circumstances of why adults couldn't control a six-year-old.

He says he would have to know the facts before commenting on it. But he says that there are
procedures in place to deal with children armed with a weapon on something that could cause harm.

The boy was taken to a nearby hospital and is doing okay. He is now undergoing a psychiatric evaluation.

First Coast News & Associated Press

[mtnbkr]

In this case, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

Chris

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

There had to be a better way for a group of adults to subdue a six year old.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

me either  but brace yourself

[mtnbkr]

There had to be a better way for a group of adults to subdue a six year old.

I don't think the issue was subduing him, but getting to him before he could cut himself or risk getting cut themselves.

The school's principal called 911 after the child broke a picture frame in her office and waved a piece of glass to keep people away from him.
When two Miami-Dade officers arrived the scene the boy had already cut himself under his eye and cut a large gash in his hand.
The officers tried to reason with the boy, but when he started cutting his own leg, they shocked him with a Taser. They then grabbed him to prevent him from hurting himself when he hit the floor and called an ambulance.

Chris

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

I read that.  I still think it was overkill.  A bunch of cops and school teachers couldn't come up with a better way to control him?

[mtnbkr]

Tell us how you would do it.  Give us a better solution, one that doesn't end up with the subduers or the kid getting cut or the kid getting crushed under a pile of adult attackers.  So far, all you've said is you think they could come up with a better way.  Tell us what that better way is from the comfort of your keyboard.

Chris

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

I wasn't there, I freely admit that.  I just have a hard time believing tazing a child was the only option. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

got any kids  ever had to handle a disturbed one?

[mtnbkr]

I wasn't there, I freely admit that.  I just have a hard time believing tazing a child was the only option. 

Maybe, just maybe, that was the best solution given the alternatives.  Afterall, people on this board and other gun boards have advocated shooting armed attackers.  This kid was armed and apparently willing to use his weapon against himself and others.

A few weeks ago, I was introducing my 4yo daughter to the priviledge of owning and using a pocketknife.  It was one of those little SAK keychain knives (Solitaire, I think) with a 1" blade.  After about an hour of cutting leaves and paper with the scissors, she decided she MUST open the blade.  Before I could stop her, she had the blad open.  In the process of trying to keep her from doing anything with the blade, she managed to cut her finger very slightly (basically a papercut).  This was with her not trying to harm me or herself, just the action of me trying to grab her hand and control the blade.  Two years, 20lbs+, and willful intent would have made a huge difference.

Chris

[Manedwolf]

Glass is evil stuff. You can be gushing blood all over the place before you even know you've been slashed.

And a shard of it, if someone falls on it, they can be killed.

[crt360]

That's one screwed up six year old. 

It's probably one of the better uses of a taser I've heard about lately.

[Perd Hapley]

There had to be a better way for a group of adults to subdue a six year old.

Boot to the head?  Sharp whacks with a baton? 

[Sergeant Bob]

Looks like a righteous shoot to me.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Glass is evil stuff. You can be gushing blood all over the place before you even know you've been slashed.

And a shard of it, if someone falls on it, they can be killed.

too true  had a friend who's six year old was playing rolling down a grassy hill with 3 or 4 other kids. piece of glass on hill slashed his carotid  he bled out in mins   i tend to be harsh on folks who bust bottles and leave em

[K Frame]

When I was in first grade, we had a kid who, today, would probably be segregated from other students.

He was always a problem, but one day he absolutely melted down.

I'm not talking about a crying tantrum, I'm talking about a full-blown psychotic break with a shockingly high level of energy and violence. Scrawny little 6 year old shouldn't be a problem for a full-grown teacher, right?

Wrong.

This kid was so uncontrollably violent he put our teacher and another student in the hospital overnight. The teacher tried to grab him to, I guess, calm him down. He broke loose as if it was nothing, picked up his desk chair and threw it at her. I'm not talking about those new light-weight plastic desks and chairs they have now. These were the old stamped/tubular steel chair/desk that even for an adult weighs one hell of a lot.

The chair hit her and bounced into another kid. He then picked up his desk and threw it, too. Luckily that missed. He then proceeded to start smashing the windows with his fists.

I can't remember if a student ran to another room to get a teacher or what, but one of the men teachers came in and tried to grab this kid, Bobby I think was his name, broke that guy's nose. It took three teachers to fully subdue this kid and he was still struggling like a wildcat.

There was blood everywhere, from my teacher's cuts, from Bobby's shredded hands, and from the other teacher's broken nose.

Had Bobby had a knife, or even a shard of glass from one of the windows that he shattered, I have no doubt that the situation would have been a LOT worse.

Never saw the kid again.

[Fjolnirsson]

Yeah, I tend to be highly critical of Taser use, and especially on minors, but this sounds justified to me. Had the kid just been throwing a tantrum, or some such, yeah, it would have been overkill. The broken glass angle brings n a whole new element. The kid got off lucky. Before the taser, he could be looking at a busted arm from having the glass knocked out of his hand with a baton....

[yesitsloaded]

This is actually the one tie I have heard in the media of a good tazering.

[Chris]

Think of how many times we've discussed here and in other boards (THR, etc) that any edged weapon is a deadly weapon, and justifies a response of deadly force.  God forbid that we now have to put age requirements in place for deciding when and what use of force is justified.  In this case, it's probably a good thing the Taser was used, with the desired effect.  Otherwise, someone would have been hurt, probably seriously.

[Risasi]

Shoot him, or not.

Self destructive behavior is self correcting.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

presents a dilemma  if as it seems taser is appropriate for this situation   and it seems it was  how then do folks continue to rant and rail against there use on adults. kinda leaves em between rock and hard place

[Jamisjockey]

I read that.  I still think it was overkill.  A bunch of cops and school teachers couldn't come up with a better way to control him?

Think of an option.  Now.  While youre standing in front of a bleeding 6 year old who is about to cut himself again with a large piece of broken glass.  Other kids, or maybe teachers are screaming for you to do something.   You've got pepper spray, tazer, sidearm, baton, handcuffs.  Do it.  Do it now. 
IMHO, the tazer is being used way too damn much.   In this case, it was probably the best option. 

[Risasi]

I read that.  I still think it was overkill.  A bunch of cops and school teachers couldn't come up with a better way to control him?

Think of an option.  Now.  While youre standing in front of a bleeding 6 year old who is about to cut himself again with a large piece of broken glass.  Other kids, or maybe teachers are screaming for you to do something.   You've got pepper spray, tazer, sidearm, baton, handcuffs.  Do it.  Do it now. 
IMHO, the tazer is being used way too damn much.   In this case, it was probably the best option. 

Well, my water safety training kicked in. Don't just jump in to save a drowning man.

Personally I think I would pull teachers and other kids out of the room, then close the door behind me. After making sure everyone else is out of harm's way, then I would call for backup.

If the kid kills himself, well that's one less problem. If not it might just be the amount of de-escalation needed to calm the little maniac down.

[mtnbkr]

Except that he was trying to harm himself as well.  As a parent, I'm perfectly ok with the Taser option, but not so ok with locking him in the room and letting him do what he pleases.

Chris

[Risasi]

Sorry mtnbkr,

I'm just sooo sick of these kind of stories. What kind of child will try to hurt himself like that? Those must be some pretty powerful demons.


Like I said I see self destructive behavior as being self correcting. If such people are left to their own devices they have a tendency to clean up the gene pool themselves.

Maybe that sounds harsh, but I just don't care.