Deer hunting... Scope, holosight or red dot?

[charby]

I own a CETME, basically an HK 94 Clone in .308. Right now it is just iron sights that are crappy at best, so I just ordered a scope mount for it.

Iowa for the last few years has had a center-fire season on antler-less deer for 10 days in the southern tier counties in later part of January and I have decided to participate in this season.

Most of my shots will be under 150 yards and I was wondering what everyone preferences are for short to medium range sighting optics. I don't take running shots either.

The scope I am looking at is a 1.75-4x 32mm shotgun scope and the red dot is 30-40mm diameter. Undecided on the holosight.

Looking for opinions from other deer hunters.

-C

[griz]

I like the low power scopes myself.  I've tried dot scopes and they are quick for close range, but once the range gets past maybe 50 yards they cover up a lot of target.  I've never used a holosight, but will be watching the replies since I am considering one for a shotgun.

[K Frame]

Atlatl and spear carved with a flint blade and hardened over a fire.

[mtnbkr]

I use a Leupold VX-1 2-7x32 on my rifle.  Except for target shooting, I never take it off "2x".  Where I hunt, shots above 150yds are rare and usually less than 100yds.

Chris

[Thor]

Charby, I have an EOTech 552 scope mounted on my Winchester Super X2. I like it over a regular optical scope as I don't get that problem of having to look directly into the scope and find my target.(Some sort of black spot). The EOTech allows the use for one or both eyes and allows me to grab the target really quick. Bushnell has a cheaper version of the same scope. It's good for 200 yards, easily, maybe more. Having to use a shotgun where I hunt, 150 yards is about the best I can expect from the slug.

[bedlamite]

For 150 yards, I'd look at a 2-7x32 rifle scope. You may have a parallax problem with the shotgun scopes, as the focal length on them is usually 50 yards. Red dots are great for thick stuff where you cant even see 50 yards, but I wouldn't use one for longer distances.

[HankB]

How well does your rifle fit you?

If the rifle fits well, the scope will be *right there* when you raise the rifle to your shoulder; in that case, you can make good use of additional magnification.

If you have to move your head around to see though the 'scope after shouldering the rifle, you're better off with something low power, or even some sort of non-magnifying red dot optic.

.308 recoil is pretty light, but steer clear of the Chinese import 'scopes; aside from being crappy from both an optical and durability standpoint, some have very little eye relief, and you don't want to get clouted in the eyebrow when you shoot!

Personally, I'd look at something like a 4x Leupold, or perhaps their 6x42 with heavy crosshairs . . . and of course, these days the "standard" hunting riflescope is a 3x9; you can get a pretty decent one for $200 - $250 or so.

[Sergeant Bob]

I've always favored a low power scope, like a 1.5 X 5 for hunting deer where most shots were short to medium range. The 1.5 on the low end will give you a much larger sight picture at shorter range and make it a lot easier to stay on a moving target. In addition to their usefulness at longer ranges, they also have better light gathering capabilities. As long as you don't go over 5 or 6 power, you shouldn't need larger than a 30mm objective lens. The human eye can only  gather light at 5.5mm (or so I've read) so, if you divide the objective lens size, 30mm, by the order of magnification, 5, it comes out to 6mm, which gives you plenty of light.

The only reason I tell you this is, I've known a lot of people who insist that you must buy the biggest objective lens you can get, which is usually not only not necessary but, more expensive.

[Werewolf]

Red Dot or Holosight for brush country hunting. As others have said anything over 50 yards starts to get iffy with either. For anything else I'd go with a 3-9X scope since you specified most of your shooting will be at less than 150 yards. The 3X will allow quick acquisition and adequate magnification at ranges out to about 75 yards or so and the 9X will get you out to 300 or so for the occasional long shot.

I've had really good Millet's and NC Star Red Dots and recommend either brand without hesitation. I've also owned Bushnell red dots and their holosight. My personal experience with Bushnell hasn't been good. I've bought 3 optics from them and 2 of the 3 failed right out of the box. The holosight took over 2 months to get warranty repaired.

I've got an eotech 512 which I've put on an AR-15 and a 44Mag revolver which works great and is still going strong after 4 years. Eotech makes a good product

My preference in scopes is Nikon. Cheaper than Leupold and IMO just as good and optically actually better. Don't know if they can take the beating a Leupold can but if they're built as well as their cameras (I owned an F2 for over 30 years and it was worked hard and own a D70S now) then they'll take a lickin' and keep on tickin' as the saying goes.

[El Tejon]

I can't believe you gun nuts let this go!

HK94=9mm, goofy carbine copy of HK54
HK91=semi-auto only copy of G3 in .308

[Tallpine]

plain old 4x fixed power will work just fine

[charby]

I can't believe you gun nuts let this go!

HK94=9mm, goofy carbine copy of HK54
HK91=semi-auto only copy of G3 in .308

I put it in wrong...  silly me

[charby]

Atlatl and spear carved with a flint blade and hardened over a fire.

I'd probably enjoy that since I hit two white-tailed rats this year with my SUV and again with my wife's car.

How well does your rifle fit you?

I need lots of eye relief, why I am looking at a shotgun scope.

I'll end up moving it to my slug gun when I purchase a fully rifled cantilever barrel this spring. I currently shoot with iron sights but one of the places I shotgun hunt deer are normally out to 100-150 yards because of the topography of the land, deep and wide creek ravines. I'm keeping my iron sights for when I go deer jumping back home and the places where deer are under 50 yards consistently.

I'm also not going to buy one those cheap chinese made scopes, do I really want lead paint when I cut my eye brow because I didn't set the eye relief back far enough? Plus I don't want to have to rezero it each time I want to shoot.

[mustanger98]

I own a CETME, basically an HK 94 Clone in .308. Right now it is just iron sights that are crappy at best, so I just ordered a scope mount for it.

Iowa for the last few years has had a center-fire season on antler-less deer for 10 days in the southern tier counties in later part of January and I have decided to participate in this season.

Most of my shots will be under 150 yards and I was wondering what everyone preferences are for short to medium range sighting optics. I don't take running shots either.

The scope I am looking at is a 1.75-4x 32mm shotgun scope and the red dot is 30-40mm diameter. Undecided on the holosight.

Looking for opinions from other deer hunters.

-C

Of those three options, I recommend going with a fixed 4X scope. It'll be plenty for what you're describing doing.

Myself... if I'm using a scope, it's usually either a fixed 4X or a 3-9x32; either Simmons or Bushnell. But mostly I'm using a good set of irons on my old Winchester .30-30 or a couple of my old military crankbolts... U.S. and British.

[K Frame]

"Of those three options, I recommend going with a fixed 4X scope."

My sentiments exactly.

[mtnbkr]

plain old 4x fixed power will work just fine

"Of those three options, I recommend going with a fixed 4X scope."

My sentiments exactly.

Why?  In many cases, the 4x is the same price or close in price to the variable.  According to what I've read in the past couple years, variables are no more fragile than fixed models.  The variable on my deer rifle hasn't shifted since I put it on 5 years ago, that includes being knocked off the bench, tipped over a few times, riding in the backs of trucks, etc.  In addition, I personally find the 4x too much magnification for the woods.  My 2-3x32 gathers enough light for me to count the points on a spike buck in light levels I couldn't see with the naked eye.  Seems to me, as long as you're buying a good scope to begin with, a fixed scope doesn't offer much of a benefit.

Anyway, just curious about the preference...

Chris

[K Frame]

He's hunting in Iowa. Not a lot of hunting in woods the kind we have around here.

Other than the fact that I'm not a huge fan of scopes in general, I really have to wonder why you bothered with a variable power scope if you never use it as such. In essence, you bought a variable power scope that is nothing more than a fixed power scope with a few extra moving parts.

Those times that I have hunted with a variable power scope I normally keep it on a lower power setting to choose my shot, then dial it up to a higher magnification to precisely place my shot.

Given my druthers, though, I'll pick a receiver peep sight every time.

[mtnbkr]

I really have to wonder why you bothered with a variable power scope if you never use it as such. In essence, you bought a variable power scope that is nothing more than a fixed power scope with a few extra moving parts.

Because it didn't cost any more than the fixed and because I have the option of...

keep it on a lower power setting to choose my shot, then dial it up to a higher magnification to precisely place my shot.

If the variable was more fragile in a meaningful way, then a fixed would make sense, but given what I've done to mine and how well it has held up, any decrease in durability isn't meaningful.

To each his own.  I was just curious why anyone would limit themselves to a single power unless there was a real benefit in terms of performance.

Chris

[K Frame]

As far as I can tell, you're the only one who has even mentioned durability, other than in the context of cheap imported crap.

"I was just curious why anyone would limit themselves to a single power unless there was a real benefit in terms of performance."

You tell us. You've stated that you never crank your scope above the two power setting, so in essence, you've limited yourself to a single power... 

[mtnbkr]

As far as I can tell, you're the only one who has even mentioned durability, other than in the context of cheap imported crap.

"I was just curious why anyone would limit themselves to a single power unless there was a real benefit in terms of performance."

You tell us. You've stated that you never crank your scope above the two power setting, so in essence, you've limited yourself to a single power... 

Durability: because that's the only justification I can come up with and even that's a stretch.

I only use mine at 2x for hunting, but at the range, I crank it up to 7x.  So I limit myself to a duo powered scope. I don't have much use for 3-6x.

Chris

[charby]

He's hunting in Iowa. Not a lot of hunting in woods the kind we have around here.

I agree but I also don't hunt the open spaces of corn fields either, I like to hunt the broken patches of timber, fringes of larger woods or deep ravines out of the wind when December/January weather pushes the deer into them. The only time I'll hunt ag fields is if the deer as pushed into bedding down in waterways and fence rows, and they are jump shot.

My friend shoots a fixed 4x on his shotgun, I think its great for shots over 50 yards but in my opinion it is too much magnification for me under 50 yards. I used to have a fixed 2.5x scope on my shotgun (came with it when I bought it), I loved the power setting but the scope was a cheap ass tasco with 20 mm optics, never held zero very well and it was too small optically for fast shots when jumping deer. This is why I took it off and went back to iron sights.

With a scope I want 1.5-4x, if I hunted more wide open spaces or shots were consistently over 100 yards I'd probably stick with a fixed power scope.

[HankB]

. . . The human eye can only  gather light at 5.5mm (or so I've read) so, if you divide the objective lens size, 30mm, by the order of magnification, 5, it comes out to 6mm, which gives you plenty of light.

The only reason I tell you this is, I've known a lot of people who insist that you must buy the biggest objective lens you can get, which is usually not only not necessary but, more expensive.

It's not just light; a larger exit pupil makes your eye position less critical.

For example, take a 6x42 scope, which gives you a 7mm exit pupil. A fully dilated pupil in the human eye is about 7mm (less as you get older) so you eye will make maximum use of the light transmitted by this 'scope in dark conditions.

Take that same 'scope out on a sunny day, and your eye's pupil may contract to 2mm . . . but as long as your eye's 2mm pupil is located within the 7mm exit pupil of the 'scope, you'll still see an unobscured field.

[Thor]

Charby, try out the EOTech or Bushnell Holoscopes. They might be exactly what you want. If you ever make it up to Minneapolis area, I'll be more than happy to let you check out my holoscope.

[charby]

Charby, try out the EOTech or Bushnell Holoscopes. They might be exactly what you want. If you ever make it up to Minneapolis area, I'll be more than happy to let you check out my holoscope.

I'm up that way once in a while, I have some friends that I really need to visit in Minnieapolis area.

-C

[Tallpine]

Well, anyway ... my deer rifle/scope is a Rem 788 in .243 with an old 4x Bushnell on it.  Got the whole thing at a pawnshop for $225, which is less than you might pay for a good scope.

I'm also one of those "one box of shells = 20 deer" sort of guys