Author Topic: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs  (Read 6490 times)

geronimotwo

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2007, 11:08:54 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/10/colorado.shootings/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

the pastor, in the above link, states that the shooter had no connection to the chuch. but, the article posted by dasmi states that previously he was a part of the mission program that has a group at this church.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071210/ap_on_re_us/church_shootings_50;_ylt=ApWKQk14YvU8rQziNdWYRnxH2ocA

Quote
Violent crimes of any sort are tragic enough, but when innocent people are killed in a religious facility or a place of worship, we must voice a collective sense of outrage and demonstrate a renewed commitment to keeping our communities safe," said Gov. Bill Ritter

i'm not certain why the governor would imply that some lives or buildings are more important than others.
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

CAnnoneer

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2007, 11:13:28 AM »
i'm not certain why the governor would imply that some lives or buildings are more important than others.

Historically, religious violence is easier to incite and organize. Although I am not a fan of the "hate crime" mentality and legislation, there is a rational argument about special attention being paid by a society to religion-motivated violence. I will give the governor the benefit of doubt that that is the line of reasoning that led him to make the statement.

Devonai

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2007, 11:15:27 AM »
Up until that CNN link, I'd only heard that the hero was an "armed security guard," which seems a bit inaccurate since the woman was a volunteer and not employed by a security company.  This would help our cause if it was shouted from the rooftops, but I don't see that happening in the media.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2007, 11:22:23 AM »
Note that they threw in her "law enforcement background", as it isn't possible for someone without one to respond  appropriately.

Firearms thus still should be restricted to law enforcement/military.  rolleyes
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Devonai

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2007, 11:26:28 AM »
There's an owner of a security company on Fox News right now who just confirmed that the woman was a volunteer, and advocates carry in church.  Of course, he thinks professional armed security guards are the answer.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2007, 12:43:42 PM »
*** thread drift detected ***

What was your first clue?   smiley


i'm not certain why the governor would imply that some lives or buildings are more important than others.

Historically, religious violence is easier to incite and organize. Although I am not a fan of the "hate crime" mentality and legislation, there is a rational argument about special attention being paid by a society to religion-motivated violence. I will give the governor the benefit of doubt that that is the line of reasoning that led him to make the statement.

Might it be a little early to conclude that the two shootings were "religously-motivated"? 

I think the Gov. was just voicing the usual reaction most people have about crimes in religious settings.  We like to think of them as safe places.  That's partly why the Catholic sexual abuse cases were so widely-reported, versus sexual abuse cases happening in other settings.  The same sort of reaction we used to have to school shootings, before they became semi-annual events.   
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geronimotwo

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2007, 02:30:04 PM »
Quote
The same sort of reaction we used to have to school shootings, before they became semi-annual events.


at least this church had a plan of action, which is more than can be said for most schools.
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2007, 05:45:26 PM »
A little more info.
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2007-12-11T011025Z_01_N09332256_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SHOOTING-COLORADO-COL.XML&archived=False
Quote
"I heard shots fired. There was chaos. The shots were so loud, I thought he was inside. I saw him coming through the doors," Assam told reporters.

Assam said she then took cover, identified herself to the gunman and "I took him down." She credited God for her survival because of "the firepower he had compared to what I had."
I wonder what she had?

Zsa-Zsa

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2007, 06:09:05 PM »
...


Stand_waitie, could you clarify?  If they have the intellectual high ground, why aren't you one of them? 

Because I believe Jesus is G-d incarnate.

wooderson

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2007, 06:10:51 PM »
Quote
Sorry to hear that. As a man of faith myself, I know how difficult it is to be a person of faith.

Does it require 'faith' to not believe in banshees?
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Bogie

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2007, 09:02:12 PM »
Well, I'm guessing she had something that she stood there, thought about, and aimed with.
 
Good thing too.

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roo_ster

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2007, 04:15:40 AM »
While I, too, am interested in the hardware used, here is yet another example of software coming to the fore.
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grampster

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2007, 04:39:44 AM »
They had her on Fox News last night with her pastor.  He has been praising her whenever he gets in front of a camera.  He keeps saying that she saved the lives of hundreds of people and that the shooter had about 1000 rounds on him.  (I wonder about that amount, but he must have been well supplied)  Good on him. 

She is a brave person with a good tactical head on her shoulders.  She took cover, thought about it, got the drop on him, moved forward to close the distance, gave him an instant to drop his weapon, and then shot him dead when he didn't.  Perfect!

She is one of a group of armed volunteers that were interviewed by the church and then put in place.  She mentioned that her group works together at church functions.  The implication is that they must train a bit.  I didn't catch the whole interview.

I think folks like her ought to be cited for bravery and awarded the civilian medal for bravery.  She qualifies more so than some left wing Hollywood moonbat that is now praised and honored.
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geronimotwo

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2007, 05:15:40 AM »
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=5416991&ch=4226713&src=news

here is an interview with the "security guard". she claims to have been a police officer for 14 years. that would explain her reaction. she does use the term assualt rifle to describe the shooters gun.
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

Tallpine

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2007, 06:28:37 AM »
Quote
previously he was a part of the mission program that has a group at this church

YWAM is a global organization, and they draw people from hundreds or even thousands of churches.
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Desertdog

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2007, 08:28:10 AM »
Quote
She is one of a group of armed volunteers that were interviewed by the church and then put in place.
To me, this means they have several members of the church with CCW permits that they have requested them to bring their guns to church and to respond to trouble.  Not LEOs but armed citizens.

I do not think anybody else will try to bring a gun to that church and attack it.

Quote
Because I believe Jesus is G-d incarnate.
Why be PC?  It really should read "Because I believe Jesus is God incarnate."

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2007, 08:51:12 AM »
Some Christians and Jews believe the name of God itself to be holy, and thus do not spell it out.  G-d.

Manedwolf

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2007, 09:01:10 AM »
Note WaPo's typical spin...

Quote
COLORADO SPRINGS, Dec. 10 -- A heavily armed man who killed four young people at a missionary training center and a church Sunday apparently intended to gun down many more victims before he was shot by a church security guard, authorities said Monday.

The gunman, identified as Matthew Murray 24, of Englewood, Colo., was carrying an assault rifle, two handguns and as many as 1,000 rounds of ammunition when he shot his way into the huge New Life Church in Colorado Springs and was confronted and shot by Jeanne Assam, a former police officer who was serving as a volunteer security guard, police said.

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Boyd said Assam is a "highly trained" volunteer with a law enforcement background who also serves as his bodyguard.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/10/AR2007121001348.html?hpid=sec-nation

Because, of course, police officers are always police officers, even if they're not or got fired or whatever. They're like mystical Jedi with special gun skills that a civilian can't ever have.

They can't have the sheep thinking that one of them, an ordinary, armed civilian stopped this murderer. No, no, that wouldn't do at all...

Also note:

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Murray, who was home-schooled in a deeply religious Christian household,

They're harping on the home-schooling, all the nooz sources. Notice that?
Because not putting your kid in the statist education centers is eeeeeeeevil.


Matthew Carberry

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2007, 10:57:06 AM »
Don't view it as a negative, they are just being fair and PC. 

Most of these mass killings have been by state-schooled kids and adults, so they are trying to demonstrate diversity in their reporting.  You know, being inclusive so the home schoolers don't feel left out.

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280plus

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2007, 11:06:47 AM »
Yea, I love the way they build on the "highly trained former LEO security guard" angle.  rolleyes
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Desertdog

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Police: Church Gunman Killed Himself
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2007, 11:09:27 AM »
She didn't do it after all. 

Police: Church Gunman Killed Himself
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8TFFELO2&show_article=1


  COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) - The man who killed four people at a church and missionary training center shot himself in the head and died after being hit by shots from a church security officer, police said Tuesday.
Matthew Murray, 24, was struck multiple times by a security officer at New Life Church Sunday, but his death was ruled a suicide, the El Paso County Coroner's Office concluded after an autopsy.

Murray shot himself in the head, said police Sgt. Skip Arms.

Volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam shot Murray after he entered the church. Though investigators had earlier suggested he killed himself, they credited Assam's bravery with averting a greater tragedy.

Assam, a 42-year-old former Minneapolis police officer, said her faith allowed her to remain steady under pressure.

"It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God," she said, her hands trembling as she recounted the shooting during a news conference Monday.

The first attack Sunday took place at Youth With a Mission, a training center for missionaries in the Denver suburb of Arvada; the other occurred about 12 hours later at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs.

Officials said revenge was one apparent motive for the attacks. Police said Murray had sent hate mail to the Youth With a Mission center in the last few weeks after being removed from the program years ago.

In a statement, the training center said health problems kept Murray from finishing the program, but elaborated little. Murray did not complete the lecture phase or a field assignment as part of a 12-week program, Youth With a Mission said.

Authorities also believe Murray authored an anti-Christian diatribe online that closely repeated a rant by one of the Columbine killers, a newspaper reported Tuesday.

The most recent post to the site, a forum for people who have left evangelical religious groups, was Sunday morning in the hours between his attacks in Arvada and Colorado Springs, according to KUSA-TV in Denver, which first reported on the writings.

"You Christians brought this on yourselves," Murray wrote, according to the station, which did not identify the site. "All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world."

The language in the post is almost identical to the text of a manifesto written by Eric Harris, one of the teens who carried out the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School.

The online posts, under the pen name "nghtmrchld26," spanned several weeks, and in an earlier one, Murray appeared to reject offers of psychological help.

"I've already been working with counselors. I have a point to make with all this talk about psychologists and counselors `helping people with their pain,'" he wrote, according to KUSA.

The station said Murray's posts were removed from the site after Sunday's killings, and that authorities were aware of them and investigating. Police in Colorado Springs and Arvada would not comment on the writings.

In a search warrant affidavit, investigators said Murray attended a home-based computer school and worked at his computer for three to five hours a day for the past two years. Police said Murray's only previous brush with the law was a traffic ticket earlier this year.

His relatives said they were grief-stricken and baffled.

"We cannot understand why this has happened. We ask for prayer for the victims and their families during this time of grief," said Phil Abeyta, Murray's uncle, who read a statement from the family Monday.

Also Tuesday, Minneapolis police Sgt. Jesse Garcia said Assam was fired from the Minneapolis force in 1997 for lying during an internal investigation. Sgt. John Delmonico, president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis, said police were investigating a complaint that Assam swore at a bus driver while she was handling an incident on a city bus.
 

Manedwolf

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2007, 11:36:42 AM »
Quote
She didn't do it after all. 

Yeah she did. She didn't kill him, but she stopped the threat.

That's what you mean to do when you shoot at a bad guy.

grampster

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2007, 11:56:14 AM »
Well, I wondered when some news article would begin to disparage this brave woman.  Well, she did stop him.  She shot him enough so that he killed himself instead of killing others.  That took skill and bravery.  Isn't that what we do?  Shoot till we stopped the threat.  She did!  Good on her.

Oh, and they just had to mention that she got fired from LE.  What the hell did that have to do with anything?  I just love those media writers.  Always looking for some smut.  Never content to credit a good and brave act.  Always gotta piss on somebody's parade.  I got two words for the writer...
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2007, 11:59:12 AM »
Smut sells.  Along with blood, death, scandal, sex, failure, and everything else wrong with humans.

Manedwolf

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Re: Shooting at New Life Church in Colorado Springs
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2007, 12:15:20 PM »
American society was in much better shape when there would have been songs being sung in taverns about what she did already, instead of the nooz picking apart her past.