Man killed by Scientology guard

[MicroBalrog]

When people have a religious belief, their places of worship are called churches. Or temples. Sometimes, people call the religious organization itself a 'church'.

That is all.

[Perd Hapley]

Actually, the "religious organization" is the church, although the meeting place is usually called a church as well. 

Regardless, it is annoying to hear him say "They raided a church," as if they had busted into the sleepy little Baptist church on the corner.  And if he's referring to the Operation Snow White deal, there's a whole lot more to it than what he claims.

Yeah, the term church could be applied, if you buy the notion that Scientology is a religion.  I just wish he wouldn't.  But I wish people wouldn't say a lot of stuff, so there ya go. 

[MicroBalrog]

Just because some people claim that Scientology isn't a religion because supposedly Hubbard once said making up a religion is good business doesn't mean it isn't a religion. Even if we assume RLH didn't believe in the Scientology stuff himself - which is not a proven assertion - doesn't mean the people who are in charge now don't.

The fact the Church of Scientology takes money for the different levels doesn't make the beliefs proper not a religion. As you well aware, there's a branch of people who practice the beliefs of Scientology without charging money for the 'levels' and who are sharply critical of the official church. W

[ArfinGreebly]

Snow White?

Nah, that was later.  Maybe late seventies?  That was a genuine fiasco.  CofS tried a counter-infiltration operation of some kind and it blew up on them.  They got tired of playing defense all the time and tried an offensive move.  Bad idea.  Playing defense sucks, but it means the government is committing all the crimes, even if none of them go to jail about it.  The moment you try offensive infiltration . . . and they catch you . . . you become the criminal.  There were some honchos that did prison time over that.


The DC raid was . . . let me think . . . had to be early sixties.  The thing that stuck with me on that was that Kennedy was in the White House when the initial letter was written.  So I would think that the raid was in 1961 or 1962, certainly no later than early 1963.  I was in Europe in 1973 (ten years later), and that's when I heard about it.


I understand your objection to using the term "church" for their organization.

I, personally, would have preferred "research foundation" or maybe "scientific foundation," or something of that kind, from my own observations of their work.

Speculating here . . . (again, I only have sketchy information . . .)

Evidently, once the medical and scientific community found that Hubbard proposed a spiritual model (this would have been in the early fifties, I guess) as the foundation for his methodologies, they pretty much used their authority and influence to scupper the "foundation" approach to non-profit status.  It was pointed out that "spirits" didn't belong in science, but in religion.

I'd say, in that kind of "the rest is history" way, that the decision was made to pursue that avenue.

It's been the subject of a couple of legal actions, one of which resulted in a formal acknowledgement by the IRS of their religion/church status and a confirmation of non-profit.

I've never been terribly fond of the "church" moniker.  I was baptized in a church as an adult (Baptist, if you must know), and I sang in the choir, and we did the usual worship services and bible studies.  There is a certain "feel" to the conventional "church" (well, Christian church, anyway)  that the CofS doesn't have.  Reverence?  Something like that.

I guess, if I had to take a stab at the main difference between conventional churches and CofS, it would be that a conventional church is about faith and observance, whereas CofS is about understanding and application of principles and methods.

I've been told (by an outsider) that "Scientology is kind of a Westernized, technology-driven version of many of the Buddhist ideas."  He wasn't trying to be flattering.  I've never been a Buddhist nor have I studied Buddhism, so I couldn't speak to the accuracy of that.

So, whether I like it or not, the CofS has established its "bona fides" as a church in every country where it has branches, and the US government has "certified" them as such.

Call them a cult?  I could, but I've seen their work, and I respect that.  I guess I'll stick with church.

[ArfinGreebly]

So, a little research . . .  (the following is from www.freezone.org)

It was January, 1963

On January 4, 1963, under the guise of executing a warrant authorizing the seizure of E-meters, a raiding party of U.S. Marshals, joined by FDA agents and three narcotics officers from the D.C. Police Department, swooped down on the church.  In Gestapo fashion, they ransacked desks and filing cabinets and, in addition to E-meters, carted away a truckload of creedal literature.  Hoping to find some evidence of drugs the officers invaded residential quarters occupied by the church staff.  There they rifled closets, bureau drawers, and even lifted bedcovers. (O. Garrison, Playing Dirty, pg. 25)

And further . . .

In the raid on the church, which was carried out as soon as FDA officials had the warrant in their hands, federal agents seized not only the E-meters, but the entire stock of Scientology books and creedal literature.  An FDA spokesman later boasted to newsmen that the agency's enforcers had seized and carted away three tons of equipment and printed material.  (O. Garrison, Hidden Story of Scientology, pg. 134-135)

I'll be damned.  FDA.  I thought it was the FBI.

The looted E-meters, 5000 volumes and 20,000 booklets were not returned until October 24, 1973. When a count was taken, it was found that 25 of the E-meters were missing. They were never accounted for. (O. Garrison, Playing Dirty, pg. 35)

(The October, 1973 thing fits generally with my recollections.)

. . . also . . .

LRH: On January the 22nd of 1963, the Food and Drug Administration made a raid with drawn guns on our organization in Washington, D.C., immediately after we had offered to then-president Kennedy assistance in his national programs with the use of Scientology. His reply to this, apparently, was to order a raid on our organization.

I determined at that time that organizations must carry on a line of defense and that I must accelerate the technology, advance and wrap up the entire subject in a very short time. (Ron's Journal 67)

There's a date discrepancy there, but January 1963 doesn't seem to be in doubt.

[Perd Hapley]

LRH: On January the 22nd of 1963, the Food and Drug Administration made a raid with drawn guns on our organization in Washington, D.C., immediately after we had offered to then-president Kennedy assistance in his national programs with the use of Scientology. His reply to this, apparently, was to order a raid on our organization.

Meh.  I don't know whether the raid was justified, but I don't see why he would make that connection.  Seems more likely the FDA just wanted to mess with them for some unrelated reason. 

Just because some people claim that Scientology isn't a religion...

You've got that backwards.  It's Scientology that claims to be a religion.  I'm not even saying they aren't a religion, just saying that "they raided a church, a CHURCH" is a bit of a loaded phrase.  "They raided the headquarters of a unorthodox religious sect" might be better. 

As you well aware, there's a branch of people who practice the beliefs of Scientology without charging money for the 'levels' and who are sharply critical of the official church. W

No, never heard of it, actually. 

[MicroBalrog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)