MORE on Obama's Birth Certificate; Case to be Heard on Merits

[longeyes]

The birth certificate controversy is just a symptom.

The real disease is that Obama, many sense, is a stranger in a strange land.  That perception is going to grow.

[Fjolnirsson]

At first, I figured this whole issue was malarkey. As time went on, and Obama continued to stonewall on showing a copy of an actual birth certificate, and insisting we rely on a doctor's word that it exists, I began to give some thought to the whole thing. I now believe one of two things:Either there's some small but embarrassing tidbit listed, such as race=Caucasian or a prehensile tail/12 fingers/no father etc, OR the whole thing has been encouraged by the stonewalling merely to divert energy from real issues.

Frankly, the thing has gone on long enough, and I have seen such obvious Chicago style behavior from this administration, the only way I would consider it put to rest is if an official copy is released to either John Stossel or Gillette Penn for review, with full cooperation by the Hawaii authorities.

[Jamisjockey]

The birth certificate controversy is just a symptom.

The real disease is that Obama, many sense, is a stranger in a strange land.  That perception is going to grow.

That strange land elected him with over 66 million votes.   

[longeyes]

True, and we live in a strange land, as I said.

You've correctly identified the current state of suffrage as a major problem for contemporary America.

[Balog]

True, and we live in a strange land, as I said.

You've correctly identified the current state of suffrage as a major problem for contemporary America.

So what do you suggest? Deny suffrage to.... who? People who disagree with you?

[AZRedhawk44]

So what do you suggest? Deny suffrage to.... who? People who disagree with you?

Deny suffrage to those who don't pay taxes.

[longeyes]

So what do you suggest? Deny suffrage to.... who? People who disagree with you?

Balog, your ability to concoct straw men is truly impressive.

AZRedhawk44 has suggested one possible direction.  That needs exploring.

I think basic communication and literacy criteria ought to be in place. Ideally, citizens should have some knowledge of basic issues.  And I am certainly not in favor of ballots in languages other than English.

[AZRedhawk44]

Balog, your ability to concoct straw men is truly impressive.

AZRedhawk44 has suggested one possible direction.  That needs exploring.

I think basic communication and literacy criteria ought to be in place. Ideally, citizens should have some knowledge of basic issues.  And I am certainly not in favor of ballots in languages other than English.

That would be seen as akin to a poll tax or some of the Jim Crow laws that existed testing for literacy and such.  Not gonna fly.

A Constitutional Amendment that cited the Declaration of Independence as its justification, referring to taxation without representation and drawing a reverse corollary so as to imply no representation without taxation, might fly.

What you'd probably see as a result though is a "minimum tax" introduced by Democrats into the Income Tax system for a person to pay a paltry $5 in taxes and still be able to vote.

[BryanP]

Deny suffrage to those who don't pay taxes.

Okay.  So anyone who buys a pack of gum can vote. 

[Jocassee]

Balog, your ability to concoct straw men is truly impressive.

AZRedhawk44 has suggested one possible direction.  That needs exploring.

I think basic communication and literacy criteria ought to be in place. Ideally, citizens should have some knowledge of basic issues.  And I am certainly not in favor of ballots in languages other than English.

Isn't that the way it used to be? Literacy tests, and all that...weren't they used to deny poor people and blacks the vote?

[AZRedhawk44]

Okay.  So anyone who buys a pack of gum can vote. 

That would be sales tax and allow you to vote for state (or maybe city) issues.

Not federal.

Tie federal voting to federal income tax.  Make it actually do something in our favor for once.  No tax return with an amount paid value > 0 in the correct form 1040 box?  No federal vote for you this year.  No House of Reps, no Senate, no President.

Also tie it to eligibility for federal office.

[longeyes]

Isn't that the way it used to be? Literacy tests, and all that...weren't they used to deny poor people and blacks the vote?

Hmmm, you're right, best to have no standards at all lest we "discriminate," huh?  I think you've defined modern liberalism perfectly: society without civilization.

[longeyes]

Here's the problem: Because you eliminate "literacy tests" and other presumably noxious forms of paternalism doesn't mean you end up with free minds making free choices.  What you end up with is just the opposite: people voting in blocs, whether political, economic, or cultural.

Frankly, I think we've "democratized" the suffrage process to the extent only an ACORN could love.

[iiibdsiil]

I think the birth certificate states he is Caucasian while his school records are going to indicate he is black. Then the speculation will start that he was only accepted because he was black, and used it because he knew it would help.

[longeyes]

With all due respect Barack Obama can pass for many things but I don't think Caucasian is one of them.  Was he raised "white?"  Now that's a different story altogether.

[MicroBalrog]

Here's the problem: Because you eliminate "literacy tests" and other presumably noxious forms of paternalism doesn't mean you end up with free minds making free choices.  What you end up with is just the opposite: people voting in blocs, whether political, economic, or cultural.

Because educated people are such freedom-lovers.

College campi are full of educated people in suits with high incomes. Guess who comes up with the ideologies that enslave you? Who mans the courts and the media and the public schools and the government bureaucracies? It's all educated, respectable, middle-class and upper-class people in suits.

[Balog]

With all due respect Barack Obama can pass for many things but I don't think Caucasian is one of them.  Was he raised "white?"  Now that's a different story altogether.

I'd say he was raised red.

Because educated people are such freedom-lovers.

College campi are full of educated people in suits with high incomes. Guess who comes up with the ideologies that enslave you? Who mans the courts and the media and the public schools and the government bureaucracies? It's all educated, respectable, middle-class and upper-class people in suits.

The Founders had no problem requiring property ownership as a condition of suffrage. I'd also point to the Starship Troopers model, but I don't really think either is realistic these days.

[MicroBalrog]

I'd also point to the Starship Troopers model, but I don't really think either is realistic these days.

A model that even Heinlein did not genuinely favor.

The Founders had no problem requiring property ownership as a condition of suffrage.

Actually, the Founders were divided on this issue.

[Balog]

A model that even Heinlein did not genuinely favor.

Actually, the Founders were divided on this issue.

Any limitation on suffrage is fantasy and intellectual masturbation until longeyes leads his fellow %3's in Civil War part deaux.

[longeyes]

Because educated people are such freedom-lovers.

College campi are full of educated people in suits with high incomes. Guess who comes up with the ideologies that enslave you? Who mans the courts and the media and the public schools and the government bureaucracies? It's all educated, respectable, middle-class and upper-class people in suits.

Whoa now.  You're describing the Founding Fathers.   Let's not romanticize the educated OR the uneducated.  That isn't the real issue here.

[longeyes]

Any limitation on suffrage is fantasy and intellectual masturbation until longeyes leads his fellow %3's in Civil War part deaux.

You're quite right.  We will continue to expand suffrage until it becomes, like most other formerly serviceable American institutions, a risible travesty.  Indeed, Dems have already floated the idea of lowering the voting age to the mid-teens and I believe no lesser a luminary than Ruth Bader Ginsburg could see no problem with something trans-pubertal.

But here's the deal, Balog and fellow Balogians: it's not about me leading anyone into a Civil War; the Civil War has already taken place and we lost.  It was a "soft war" but a war nonetheless.  What's left is for the survivors on our side to recognize the situation and to gather together and protect those of us who are left, maybe to start again, here or somewhere else.

We will see which of us is practicing fantasy and intellectual masturbation in due course.  I guess you think that by enabling the Left to make a mockery of voting you are advancing the cause of Liberty?  Well, think again.  The last election showed what happens when you get forty years of unremitting public foolishness from both political parties.

[Balog]

When  you say "Make a mockery of voting" what is it that you mean? Cause it sure seems like you mean  "Voting for people I don't like." I oppose that for the same reason I opposed silliness like the Patriot Act. Even if I trusted one group to restrain itself (I don't) law must be viewed in the light of "How can my enemies use this against me?"

[longeyes]

No, it doesn't mean "voting for people I don't like."   

What it means is voting and not really having any facts or reasoning behind the vote.  Mobs are everyone's enemy.

[Balog]

No, it doesn't mean "voting for people I don't like."   

What it means is voting and not really having any facts or reasoning behind the vote.  Mobs are everyone's enemy.

And how are you going to determine if someone's reason for their vote is "good enough." ? Seems hard to do with a secret ballot. Also, you do realize any scheme to regulate suffrage will be ran by ACORN right?

[sanglant]

a simple test on the top of a ballet. three questions.

1 which party is in control of the US Senate?

2 which party is in control of the US congress?

3 to which party does the current president belong?