Author Topic: What's wrong with this country?  (Read 22629 times)

longeyes

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maybe somebody's priorities are a bit skewed?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2007, 08:06:48 AM »
Pelosi arm-wrestles over cash for the House gym
By Emily Belz and Alexander Bolton
August 08, 2007
After dueling with House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman John Dingell (D-Mich.) to pass a renewable energy bill, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) faces a wrestling match with another rogue chairman. And this one can bench-press 265 pounds.

Pelosi is set to square off against Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii), the power-lifting chairman of the House gym committee.

Abercrombie is touting his efforts to secure funding in the legislative branch spending bill to begin an estimated $8 million renovation of the House gym. The project is personally important to Abercrombie, who sets a yearly goal to bench-press 200 pounds more than his age, now 69.

Pelosi and other Democratic leaders are not eager for a multimillion-dollar renovation of the congressional members-only gym to be one of the first accomplishments of the Democratic majority. They worry that freshman Democrats could be attacked on the campaign trail next year for approving a fancy new gym for themselves after winning office.

Democratic leaders held a special meeting with Abercrombie earlier this year to tell him that now is not the time for a new House gym and also instructed him not to mention the issue to reporters, according to Democratic sources

But Abercrombie hasnt stopped talking about it. He insists that the gym needs renovating and is pushing for federal money to finance a redesign.

Abercrombie showed last week that hes not afraid to confront his leadership. Angered by a last-minute discovery that leaders would not schedule a floor vote on an Iraq bill he sponsored, Abercrombie introduced a motion to adjourn the House in protest, a rare tactic for a member of the majority to wield against his leaders. Abercrombie was the only Democrat to vote for the motion.

When it comes to the House members gym, Abercrombie also talks tough.

Officially, the facility is called The Wellness Center. Abercrombie calls it The Badness Center.

It may not be a Turkish prison, but the windowless facility in the bowels of the Rayburn House Office Building is hardly upscale.

The gyms scent is reminiscent of sweaty basketball pennies and musty basements. A half-court backs up against a little netted area for driving golf balls. Drab 1970s-era office chairs line the gym wall.

Behind a saloon-style door off the half-court, the exercise machines are crammed together.

The lack of amenities are all the more galling when compared to the gleaming new gym reserved for House staffers. In the staff members gym, each elliptical machine and treadmill has its own flat-screen TV hooked up to cable.

The locker rooms are well lit (not many overhead fluorescents), with vanity tables in the womens for reapplying mascara or blow-drying hair.

Staffers can attend classes or roll around on Pilates balls in an aerobics room lined with full-length mirrors. The staff gym is designed to allow men and women equal access to all the equipment.

Abercrombie argues the staff gym should be the model for lawmakers gym renovations. He says the current setup is a burden for female lawmakers, making it somewhat awkward for Pelosi, the first woman Speaker of the House, to oppose him.

 The women (including lawmakers wives) have a smaller, separate gym next to their locker rooms in Rayburn.

To get to the main gym from the womens locker rooms, they must walk across an underground parking lot. If they want to use the cardiovascular equipment, for example, they must walk through the mens locker rooms.

Some congresswomen are fed up.

Rep. Mary Fallin (R-Okla.) says she doesnt use the gym because its not convenient from her office in the Longworth House Office Building.

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), chairwoman of the Legislative Branch Appropriations Subcommittee, said, I dont mind working out in front of men, but you have to go through the mens locker room.

She is a swimmer, but to get to the pool she says she would have to walk through a parking garage and upstairs from the locker room.

Logistically, its too difficult, she said. For the time being, however, Wasserman Schultz agrees with Pelosi that there are more important funding priorities than the gym.

Abercrombie is quick to position himself alongside his female colleagues in a potential showdown with Pelosi.

He says the pinched size of the womens gym impedes female lawmakers from using it. He says they need more room to get dressed after a workout in this age of television-driven politics.

Not all women agree with Abercrombie. The wife of one congressman who uses the womens gym regularly said the complaints are overblown.

The facilities are absolutely fine. Theyre great, said the spouse, who spoke anonymously to avoid angering any lawmakers. You cant walk across a parking lot? Whats the big deal?

Taxpayers would be furious if they knew we were spending their money on gym renovations, she added, echoing the concern of Democratic leaders.

House appropriators have told Abercrombie that funding for plans to redesign the gym can come from a $60 million account in the legislative branch spending bill. To free the money up, though, Abercrombie must secure final approval from the House Building Commission, which Pelosi chairs.

So while Abercrombie is correct that money for building a new gym has passed the House, it still has to get by Pelosi, who doesnt seem too scared of Abercrombies muscle.

Pelosi would prefer to see money spent on security and other issues.

The emphasis is on security, safety and greening of the Capitol campus, Pelosi spokesman Nadeam Elshami said.
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Manedwolf

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2007, 08:08:38 AM »
I thought nobody wanted to touch the House gym because of all the historic scandals with messing around in there?


longeyes

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2007, 08:21:58 AM »
Privilege + Narcissism = Bad Government and Bad Business Practices.  We've created strata of irresponsible "nobility" in both the private and public sectors.  It's time the untouchables got called out for their behavior. 
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Paddy

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2007, 08:47:58 AM »
Quote
Abercrombie is touting his efforts to secure funding in the legislative branch spending bill to begin an estimated $8 million renovation of the House gym. The project is personally important to Abercrombie, who sets a yearly goal to bench-press 200 pounds more than his age, now 69.
So, this bozo's too freaking special to get a membership at the D.C. Bally's?  He needs to be bounced out of Congress.

Hawkmoon

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2007, 07:12:13 PM »
How far do you think companies will go to profit? I certainly don't think that they would endanger people's lives for profit, if only for the fact that it would be a stain on their record.
You are FAR more optimistic than I am. I have no doubt that private companies would not hesitate a nanosecond to jeopardize hundreds, even thousands of people, if it would help their short-term bottom line.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2007, 01:51:05 AM »
Quote
Abercrombie is touting his efforts to secure funding in the legislative branch spending bill to begin an estimated $8 million renovation of the House gym. The project is personally important to Abercrombie, who sets a yearly goal to bench-press 200 pounds more than his age, now 69.
So, this bozo's too freaking special to get a membership at the D.C. Bally's?  He needs to be bounced out of Congress.

Yeah, most of them do.   smiley
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K Frame

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2007, 03:40:26 AM »
Privatize the infrastructure...

Hey, nothing like 7 separate tolls along a 100-mile stretch of interstate because each section is owned by a different investment group. It'd be like medieval France, for Christ's sake.

If anyone really wants to see how "successful" a privatized infrastructure would be, they only need to look at the Dulles Greenway.

A 14-mile stretch of private road between Leesburg and Dulles Airport.

A one-way trip on ANY amount of that road is $3.00 during the week. And, by 2010, it's projected to go up to something like $5.50. And that's with no new miles added to the road.

And the Greenway's maintenance? It's no better than Dulles Toll Road to which it connects.


Privatization is NOT the "make everything better and the world becomes teddy bears, kittens, and lollipops" solution.
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Len Budney

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2007, 04:44:15 AM »
Hey, nothing like 7 separate tolls along a 100-mile stretch of interstate because each section is owned by a different investment group. It'd be like medieval France...
Cutting the road into few-mile stretches, each with different owners, is one model for road ownership--but it's the worst possible model. We can be confident the market would not work that way. Also, toll roads are one business model, and it's a reasonable one, but it's by no means the only one. Residential areas, for example, are likely to be owned by the equivalent of a homeowners' association, which would subcontract the management of it to a road-service provider. Maintenance of the roads would be paid through homeowners' dues, not through tolls.

Quote
If anyone really wants to see how "successful" a privatized infrastructure would be, they only need to look at the Dulles Greenway.
If you want to see how "successful" privatized infrastructure can be, look at Disney World. Every scrap of infrastructure, including miles and miles of roads, are privately owned and operated by Disney. In this case, the roads are provided as a loss leader, and maintenance is paid from park profits--and the roads are spotless and in perfect condition.

Quote
Privatization is NOT the "make everything better and the world becomes teddy bears, kittens, and lollipops" solution.
We need to emphasize that nobody says it is. It's definitely not perfect. It's just better than socialism is all.

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Art Eatman

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2007, 05:08:03 AM »
Well, lessee:  We had the collapse of the Oakland/Bay bridge from the earthquake, and the Northridge quake ate a freeway bridge-type structure.  Wind harmonics destroyed the Tacoma Narrows bridge, many decades ago.  Hurtricane Ivan wrecked the eastbound side of I-10 across the bay at Pensacola.  Other bridges have been damaged from impacts.  And I recall the railroad bridge failure a couple of years or so back in Alabama.

Okay:  Tell me what other bridges have failed, but more specifically, "Just up and broke"? 

Anyone?

Art





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Manedwolf

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2007, 05:14:39 AM »
Quote
If you want to see how "successful" privatized infrastructure can be, look at Disney World. Every scrap of infrastructure, including miles and miles of roads, are privately owned and operated by Disney. In this case, the roads are provided as a loss leader, and maintenance is paid from park profits--and the roads are spotless and in perfect condition.

I don't think that applies at all. They can afford to do that because every car that travels that road is going to spend at least $50 on each occupant of the vehicle for a park ticket. When the impact of a car on the road is weighed against the $200 or more that each car's occupants are going to pay that same day, plus the money spent on food, souvenirs and other items, they better be nice roads.

Len Budney

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2007, 05:18:29 AM »
Okay:  Tell me what other bridges have failed, but more specifically, "Just up and broke"? 
One near to my heart: the Schoharie Creek Bridge just up and collapsed in 1987, killing ten people. It sticks in my mind because I drove over that bridge about one hour before it collapsed, on my way home from Canada. I was barely able to stay awake, and stopped at almost every rest stop for coffee. I skipped the one before Schoharie creek purely by chance. If I hadn't, odds are good I'd have been fish food twenty years ago April 5.

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silliman89

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2007, 05:49:14 AM »
Although I think road maintainance is one of the things government does fairly well, Art asked a question.

Quote
Okay:  Tell me what other bridges have failed, but more specifically, "Just up and broke"? 

Anyone?

The Myannis River Bridge on I-95 in CT just up and broke in 1983 or 1984.  Luckily it happened in the middle of the night and only a few cars went into the river before someone (a trucker as I recall) stopped and blocked the road.

K Frame

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2007, 05:52:38 AM »
That's right, Disney World is a private venture. But to compare it to the interstate system is truly apples to oranges.

Disney is a DESTINATION. It's not a throughway. It's an entertainment venue, it's not a means of travel. You're not going to be seeing mini Disney parks spring up along the sides of major interstates, parks that are controlled by the owning entity.

Disney's continuing popularity requires that it be proactive to a maximum degree in developing and maintaining the park. It also requires ticket prices that are pretty steep.


Let's take a look at another private venture, the coal mine where they're now trying to dig out what, 6 miners? It had something like 400 safety violations in the past three years. The Sago mine in West Virginia is another example of a private venture that had a huge number of safety violations.

Privatization, again, is NOT the panacea answer to the infrastructure problems that currently exist in the United States.


"Schoharie Creek Bridge"

The Schoharie Creek Bridge failed due to scouring of the creekbed under the pier by floodwater. Pier scouring had been known for many years, and IIRC Schoharie Creek Bridge was known to be susceptible to it, and regular inspections were carried out looking for it.

The Oakland Bay Bridge did NOT just collapse. It was designed with an eye towards resisting earthquake strains. The design was at least partially successful because only one section of roadway collapsed, and it was fairly quickly returned to service after the deck was repaired and the rest of the bridge was shown to have weathered the quake fairly well.

The Tacoma Narrows Bridge, which collapsed in the 1940s, was designed before there was a good understanding of how wind harmonics affected bridges, especially suspension bridges. One of the major considerations in the design of the bridge was to keep it as light and "non invasive" to the view as possible.



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Len Budney

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2007, 06:02:38 AM »
That's right, Disney World is a private venture. But to compare it to the interstate system is truly apples to oranges.
You cherry-picked one "private" road--which, I'll wager turns out not to be as "private" as you think--so I cherry-picked another. The plural of anecdote is not "data."

Quote
Privatization, again, is NOT the panacea answer to the infrastructure problems that currently exist in the United States.
I want to be very clear and emphatic that the free market is not a panacea. It's just better than socialism.

Quote
The Schoharie Creek Bridge failed due to scouring of the creekbed under the pier by floodwater. Pier scouring had been known for many years, and IIRC Schoharie Creek Bridge was known to be susceptible to it, and regular inspections were carried out looking for it.
You are damning the highway maintenance people, not exonerating them. Like the New Orleans levees and other failures, you're blaming the proximate cause rather than the poor engineering that made the accident possible--and at the same time you're admitting that they knew their engineering was inadequate long before the perfectly predictable disaster struck.

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wmenorr67

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2007, 06:14:52 AM »
But how much better would our infastructure be if the money spent on sporting venues was spent on maintenace?  Plus it wouldn't be so damn expensive to fix if it did break.
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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2007, 08:45:53 AM »

Let's take a look at another private venture, the coal mine where they're now trying to dig out what, 6 miners? It had something like 400 safety violations in the past three years. The Sago mine in West Virginia is another example of a private venture that had a huge number of safety violations.

Privatization, again, is NOT the panacea answer to the infrastructure problems that currently exist in the United States.


If you are looking for examples where privatization doesn't work you've picked the wrong corner.
Mining is inherently a dangerous activity.  But look at mine fatalities over the last 50 years and there are tremendously fewer of them now than then.  You have managed to name 2 mining incidents over 5 years out of hundreds of operating mines.  Auto traffic on highways is less safe than that.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2007, 05:38:35 PM »
Okay:  Tell me what other bridges have failed, but more specifically, "Just up and broke"? 

Anyone?

The Mianus River bridge in I-95 in Connecticut. It collapsed just like the Minnesota bridge did, except it was around 3:00 a.m. so fewer people were killed or injured.

Connecticut's governor was asked the next day why the state had allowed the bridge to become so unsafe that it could collapse with no warning. His response was a classic, even among the governing class:

"This bridge was safe until 2:47 this morning. Then it fell down."
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Thor

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2007, 06:23:02 PM »




You are damning the highway maintenance people, not exonerating them. Like the New Orleans levees and other failures, you're blaming the proximate cause rather than the poor engineering that made the accident possible--and at the same time you're admitting that they knew their engineering was inadequate long before the perfectly predictable disaster struck.

--Len.

How much of this stuff, the I-35 bridge, the levees in New Orleans, other bridges, etc were designed so many years ago?? The I-35 Bridge was designed over 40 years ago and built 40 years ago. It was designed to handle roughly 70,000 vehicles per day. Traffic flow has doubled. The I-35 bridge wasn't designed for that amount of traffic, not to mention that semi-tractor trailer trucks have grown in size and capacity, too. You can't blame poor engineering  on this because engineering has progressed over the last few decades, just as technology has. I'm certain that it was state of the art engineering at that time in history.
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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2007, 07:30:38 PM »
Quote
Privatization is NOT the "make everything better and the world becomes teddy bears, kittens, and lollipops" solution.
That strawman argument does nothing to help the debate. Also, do you have to use it all the time?

Does anyone know if the 300+ violations is a lot for a typical mine over that time period? I know in other industries violations are handed out like candy. For all I, and most other people know 300+ could be a great record.

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Len Budney

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2007, 08:46:24 PM »
How much of this stuff... were designed so many years ago?? ... It was designed to handle roughly 70,000 vehicles per day. Traffic flow has doubled... You can't blame poor engineering on this... I'm certain that it was state of the art engineering at that time in history.

You're probably right: the crime was probably poor maintenance rather than poor engineering. But that doesn't change a thing:

How far would Walmart get explaining that their store was designed "so many years ago" to handle "so many shoppers," but that "traffic has doubled" and "today's products are heavier than ever..." and that's why the store collapsed and killed X number of shoppers? But the store really was the state of the art of engineering back in its day?

Walmart would be found liable for not maintaining the facility so it would be safe today under today's usage. Only government can say, "It was safe right up until it fell down." Sue them for negligence? HAH!

Which is of course why maintenance is the first thing to go under socialism. It cuts costs with hardly any risks. I'm sure greedy capitalists would do the same thing if the court was rigged in their favor and they had legal power to force you to keep patronizing their establishments.

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280plus

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2007, 12:53:07 AM »
I recall the CT bridge collapsed due to a combination of the design of the connectors and the excessive "skew" of the bridge. The connectors were hinged pins to allow for movement and apparently the action of vehicle crossing the sharp angle of the expansion joints caused a pin to work loose.

The part that worries me is if you look closely at the minnesota pix yoo can see they used the exact same style concrete pylons that they used extensively on the bridgework here in Hartford. Exactly what that means, I'm not sure. Same engineers / companies did both jobs? [Astro voice] Rut Row[/Astro voice] shocked
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silliman89

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2007, 02:53:30 AM »
Quote
The Mianus River bridge in I-95 in Connecticut.

Thanks Hawkmoon.  I couldn't spell mianus.  Now that you did, here's a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mianus_River_Bridge

280plus

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2007, 07:51:06 AM »
Hmph, interesting, I do remember the discussion of the bridge having an excessive skew when compared to most others and it was thought at the time that it was a contributing factor.
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longeyes

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2007, 08:02:18 AM »
I can't wait for the mass influx of Mexican trucks.

These collapses will become a weekly event.
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wmenorr67

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Re: What's wrong with this country?
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2007, 08:30:15 AM »
I can't wait for the mass influx of Mexican trucks.

These collapses will become a weekly event.

If they hold together long enough to make it to a bridge.
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