Author Topic: Any experience finishing basements?  (Read 7808 times)

eyebrows

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Any experience finishing basements?
« on: January 09, 2010, 10:33:16 AM »
I'm going to be building a room in my basement. It will utilize two existing exterior block walls, the other 2 walls I'll frame.
This leads to a few questions, which google is helping with but I thought I'd ask here and see if you have any tips or info.

Question 1)
Water is not a big problem but the block walls do have a few cracks along the mortar joints. There is a hint of mold along these cracks. My plan is to scrap off all loose paint and apply Killz to the cracks. Then use Drylok to paint the walls from top to bottom.
-Would this be sufficient or should I apply some type of masonary patch sealer to the cracks before applying the Drylok?
-After refinishing the block walls would it be a bad idea to cover them? I was thinking poly insulation board(glued or attached by furring strips) with some paneling laid over.

Question 2)
I would like to use carpet in this room. Is it preferable to just glue padding on the concrete floor and lay the carpet over that, or build a raised floor and and laying the carpet/padding over that?

Water is not a big problem in my basement. During some very heavy prolonged rains I have seen moisture along some of the cracks but not lots of water puddling up. I do however have a humidity problem and if I don't run a dehumidifier books will mildew and tools will rust. I would get another smaller dehumidifier just for this room.

The work area is cleaned out and ready to go, I'm now in the process of trying to make sure I'm going to do this right. Any tips or suggestions are welcome.

Edit:
Forgot to add that I plan to add dirt around the entire house and build a 2-3" slope to help water run away from the basement, if that makes a difference to my questions.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 10:40:06 AM by eyebrows »

Jamisjockey

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2010, 10:57:35 AM »
I finished out about 1200sqft of basement in a home I owned in Utah. 
My opinions:
Don't half ass it.  Finish it like you're building a house. 
Don't use exterior foundation walls.  Drylock paint the foundation walls.  Frame against the exterior wall using 2x4's.  Fill with insulation.  Drywall.  Skip the insulation boards and paneling.
Glue and carpet to the floor.  Use low end low pile carpet, because you run a high chance of it being ruined someday.
Add more light than you think you need.  Canned lights in the corners, light fixture in center of the room. 
Any where that any framing touches the foundation, use treated lumber. 
When I did mine, I did it 100% to code and had it inspected. This added immense value to the home.  It also made the spaces I finished 100% comfortable and usable. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

eyebrows

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 11:48:50 AM »
Don't use exterior foundation walls.  Drylock paint the foundation walls.  Frame against the exterior wall using 2x4's.  Fill with insulation.  Drywall.  Skip the insulation boards and paneling.


So did you put the 2x4 up against the exterior wall and use treated lumber for the studs of those walls? Did you use roll insulation and was it in contact with the exterior wall?
My concern is the moisture finds a way through the block and trapped between the exterior wall and the drywall, starts to mold the insulation.

I was already planning to use treated with a barrier pad for the base plates on the walls I build.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2010, 12:42:12 PM »
the mold is a legitmate concern i use treated bottom plates . you need to resolve the water infiltration before you close things up. drylock is a good first step grading outside is even better.

how much can you sink into it?  i've done em cheap  (under 20 k) and up over 100 k

how many square feet are you finishing?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Jamisjockey

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2010, 12:50:28 PM »
You might consider putting up extruded poystyrene insulation first, then the framing with your moisture concerns.
I had no moisture concerns at all with mine, so the regular 2x4's were fine against the wall.  
Also, you're going to need a vaporbarrier.

http://www.asktooltalk.com/questions/faq/insulation/vapor_barrier.php

http://www.rd.com/advice-and-know-how/slideshow-how-to-finish-a-basement-framing-and-insulating/article108042.html#slide

Finished basements were very common where I lived in Utah.  I got alot of help and suggestions from some coworkers and neighbors, and another unlikely source: the city inspector's office.  I called on numerous occasions and got help and suggestions.
Find out what the code is in your area and build it to code.  And, of course, anything extra you can do to prevent the intrusion of moisture.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

eyebrows

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2010, 05:34:43 PM »
how much can you sink into it?  i've done em cheap  (under 20 k) and up over 100 k

how many square feet are you finishing?

I'm making about 1/4th of the basement into a finished room. Roughly 150 sq feet. Fundwise I've got $600 set aside for this and will buy the rest as I go. I figure the $600 ought to get my walls sealed, lumber, insulation, drywall, and some other basic materials. I already have alot of the stuff I'll need like 12-3 wire, interior door, etc..

Quote from: JamisJockey
You might consider putting up extruded poystyrene insulation first, then the framing with your moisture concerns.
I had no moisture concerns at all with mine, so the regular 2x4's were fine against the wall. 
Also, you're going to need a vaporbarrier.

After some reading and talking this is my tentative plan for dealing with the exterior block walls.
1) scrap off all loose and or flaky paint. clean walls.
2) use hydrostatic cement to fill the cracks.
3) Paint the walls with multiple coats of Drylok
4) build walls with a vapor barrier on the block side and set them about 1" away from the block
5) Insulate and drywall
6) add fill around the house to create a slope away from the basement.

Seems like those are the best ideas and advice I've come across so far.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2010, 06:29:30 PM »
gonna drywall ceiling?  walls?  gonna do it yourself? consider small crown mold at ceiling and wainscoting 50 inches up the wall.  cuts way down on drywall work and i use the area behind crownmold to hide cabling later
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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eyebrows

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2010, 06:55:44 PM »
Yes I will do everything myself.
I'm going to drop the ceiling and use acoustical tile.

consider small crown mold at ceiling and wainscoting 50 inches up the wall.  cuts way down on drywall work and i use the area behind crownmold to hide cabling later
  =D when I redid my Grandmothers garage I used crown molding and 1x2 on the ceiling drywall joints. Saved a lot of mud/labor and looked good once painted.
I think a drop ceiling would have a retaining edge that mounts to the wall and provides a finished look.
As for cables I was planning to run everything in the walls I build.

My biggest concern is making sure I don't create a situation that invites mold. Based on info gathered thus far I think the plan I laid out above is the best bet.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2010, 07:56:55 PM »
If you want it to count as a bedroom for appraisal purposes check the code on egress, especially minimum window dimensions and their height above floor.
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sanglant

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2010, 10:34:09 PM »
if your not finishing the whole basement and your putting anything in the room you REALLY don't want wet, consider building the flour up just a layer of 2x4s and subflooring(if you have room) should give you 4 inches before there's water in your room. [tinfoil] yeah i'm paranoid about water, i lost my pool table to basement flooding =(

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2010, 10:47:50 PM »
Question: What is a floating subfloor
Answer: Well, basically its a floor that goes over the concrete and under the finished flooring you are planning to install. They are very easy to assemble and you can knock it out during a day on the weekend. They come in a standard two-foot by two-foot section and are put together using a tongue and groove panel setting (much like the tongue and groove you’ll find on engineered flooring or laminate flooring). It’s said to be “floating” because it is not permanently connected to the concrete floor via nails, screws or glue. It just sits on top of the floor.

The subfloor though has one thing that really sets it apart. The OSB (or could be plywood) portion of the subfloor sits atop a waterproof, corrugated underlayment. This truly never lets the wood hit the concrete. The corrugated portion of the underlayment creates an air gap just above the concrete and below the OSB flooring. When they are all placed together and “locked” in tight with the tongue and groove, it creates a generous thermal layer that acts like insulation for the floors and will warm them up. Some products even state that it could raise the temperature of the flooring material installed on top of them as much as ten degrees.

Not only that, because they are corrugated and raised off the concrete, it actually acts like a moisture barrier because the wood doesn’t touch the concrete. This keeps it dry from any of the natural water moisture that typically comes through concrete foundations, especially sub-level foundations. This will also allow any water that accumulates here to easily evaporate or drain and highly reduce that stinky, musty smell and any mold that may grow. Because of this kind of protection provided you could easily choose to install most flooring choices if you use this type of system in your basement.
Floating Subfloor | Floating Subfloor in a basement | Subfloor System

A typical floating subfloor has a corrugated bottom and an OSB or plywood topside.

Question: How does a floating subfloor benefit my basement
Answer: One word, durability. This floating subfloor system is tough. As noted above and due to the nature of their construction, they are built to withstand a lot of the turmoil and mishaps that can regularly occur to a basement concrete floor. Plus, you don’t have to worry about what you are going to have on top of it as it can withstand the weight of pool tables, refrigerators, workout systems so you can feel free to have the basement you really want. Not only that they are an ideal foundation for basically any type of floating floor you might want to install as a finished product from laminate flooring, engineered flooring, cork flooring, vinyl flooring and even hardwood flooring and carpet. You will want to check with the manufacturer of the specific brand that you choose but most warranty against any type of warping or splitting. One of the better brands available on the market today is the DriCORE(tm) system. One of the big benefits touted by this system for all you do-it-yourselfers out there is that this DIY subfloor can be done in one days time and with the basic household tools that most handymen should already have so there’s no specialized equipment to buy. Just plan your layout and start fitting the pieces of the subfloor system into place by tapping them together. Just remember to use a wood block or something as the cushion when tapping the subfloor pieces together.

Question: How do you install a floating subfloor?
Answer: Well, one of the first things that you don’t want to do is simply go out and get a subfloor system and start to immediately install it especially if this is for a basement application. Go get the material and store it in the room where it’s going to be installed for at least twenty four hours so it can get acclimated to where it’s going to be. I know, sounds strange, but this will let the moisture content of the material adjust to the room it’s going to be in so you won’t have problems the day after you install the subfloor. While the subfloor is climatizing, you can take the opportunity to shore up the foundation in any problem areas that you might have. If you have a seepage problem in your basement definitely fix it now. Do the standard moisture checks using the plastic sheeting and tape and fix it all up right. If moisture collects or beads up your best bet would be to seal it with a concrete sealer prior to installing the subfloor. The last step in prepping the slab for subfloor installation is to simply sweep or vacuum up all the dust and debris that may be present to ensure you are working with a semi-smooth surface. Don’t worry if the basement floor is not completely level as the subfloor system should come with shims you can use for leveling during install. Any more than a quarter inch though and you could have a problem that would need correcting via some kind of leveling compound. The shims will correct an unlevel basement floor within that range. As with any type of floating floor installation you will need to account for a quarter inch gap around all walls and columns in the room for expansion. You can accomplish this by either snapping a chalk line or even better using some quarter inch strapping pieces butted up against the walls and wherever else needed. This way is probably the easiest method to use to acquire that needed expansion gap.

After that, start off placing the panel down in your starting point (most likely should be a corner of the room), align the next one and tap it into place using a block of wood and a hammer. Be sure to use the wood block to cover the panel where you will be hammering as it will force even pressure and not damage the panels when setting the tongue and groove pieces. You’ll want to make sure that they fit well and are not loose so the don’t separate later. Take your time and set the first rows good as that sets the mold for the rest of your subfloor installation. As you work your way down the rows you are going to want to stagger the panels so the middle seams don’t line up. Every other row should align in the middle with the previous rows panels. This will lock the panels in place.

Question: What’s the best way to plan a floating subfloor layout?
Answer: First thing you need to keep in mind here is that although the walls may look square, all walls are not created equal. Check to see that the corner you plan to start with is square. You can use a common framing square to see if it’s true or not. If it’ not then just keep in mind that you’ll be trimming the edge closest to the wall for the first row of subfloor. This will keep the following rows square in comparison. Some things to keep in mind while you are planning, rows should be staggered and no edge should be less than six inches. Knowing this because you are working with a square subfloor system, its no different than if you were doing a tiling job. Get the measurements of the room and divide it by the width of the panels. Sometimes it’s best as I’m a typical strong back/weak mind type person to write it all down and actually sketch out the layout somewhere. Once that’s all done and finalized take a chalk line and snap the grids for your subfloor installation.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Hawkmoon

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2010, 12:16:06 AM »

After some reading and talking this is my tentative plan for dealing with the exterior block walls.
...
4) build walls with a vapor barrier on the block side and set them about 1" away from the block

NO!

The vapor barrier should ALWAYS go on the warm side of the wall. If you have a problem with moisture getting through the block foundation, either fix the problem, or find another way to build the room. When I did the basement of the condo my ex- and I owned, there were cracks under both exterior windows and we had concerns about dampness (and outright leaks). I chiseled out the cracks and patched them with hydraulic cement. But I didn't feel comfortable furring directly to them so I left a half-inch gap and framed a non-bearing 2x4 stud wall that didn't have any contact with the exterior walls. In your case, with a blcok foundation, I'd leave a one-inch space, then use 2x4 studs. Don't use fiberglass batt insulation if there's any chance of moisture getting at the "outside." Use (as already suggested) extruded polystyrene. That's "Styrofoam" by brand name. It's closed cell and doesn't take in moisture. )Do NOT cheap out and get the white beadboard stuff. That's expanded polystyrene, the same stuff that coffee cups are made of. Ever have one of those coffee cups drip on you? You don't need your basement wall doing the same thing.) Then buy a roll of sheet polyethylene and staple that to the room side of the studs as your vapor barrier.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2010, 12:18:53 AM »
If you want it to count as a bedroom for appraisal purposes check the code on egress, especially minimum window dimensions and their height above floor.

If you think you might want to count it as a bedroom -- are you on a public sewer, or a septic tank? Septic tank systems are sized based on the number of bedrooms. If you have an on-site septic system adding a bedroom (if you do it legally) can be VERY expensive.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2010, 08:29:45 AM »
If you have a gap between the wall frame and the foundation wall, it has to be fireproofed.  I don't remember the distance between, but every so often it must have fireproof fireproof blocking every so often.  This is so that fire doesn't transit laterally behind the wall.  You can just stuff fiberglass insulation in the gaps (per the inspector when I built mine). 
INAL, IIRC, and IMHO.  My experiences were according to codes in West Jordan, Utah. 

JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 09:21:43 AM »
they make a spray foam nowadays thats fireproof  just make sure you save the can so the inspector can veirify that the foam you used is rated as a fireblock. not all of em have seen that kinda foam and i've had to prove it before
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Jamisjockey

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2010, 10:29:26 AM »
they make a spray foam nowadays thats fireproof  just make sure you save the can so the inspector can veirify that the foam you used is rated as a fireblock. not all of em have seen that kinda foam and i've had to prove it before

Now that you mention it, I remember using spray foam in some places to create fire barriers. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Hawkmoon

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2010, 11:19:44 AM »
If you have a gap between the wall frame and the foundation wall, it has to be fireproofed.  I don't remember the distance between, but every so often it must have fireproof fireproof blocking every so often.  This is so that fire doesn't transit laterally behind the wall.  You can just stuff fiberglass insulation in the gaps (per the inspector when I built mine). 
INAL, IIRC, and IMHO.  My experiences were according to codes in West Jordan, Utah. 



Every ten feet horizontally. You can also nail a "fin" of sheetrock to the side of the studs that extends back to contact the wall.

Good point, I should have mentioned that.

BTW -- the code for private homes is the same everywhere in the U.S. It's the International Residential Code. There's a new edition every three years and some states are slower to adopt new editions than others so there may be minor differences, but most of it is the same everywhere. My state, for example, is till on the 2003 edition. We'll probably skip the 2006 edition entirely and adopt the 2009 sometime this year or next year.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 06:51:33 PM by Hawkmoon »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2010, 05:47:59 PM »
still some places with no code
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Hawkmoon

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2010, 06:50:51 PM »
I mis-typed -- there is a new edition every THREE years, not every year.

CASD, you gotta be kidding. There are still places that don't have a code for building houses? I thought the last of the foot draggers all got on board when the three (former) model code agencies all joined up to create the International Code Council ten years ago.
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brimic

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2010, 09:12:38 PM »
Quote
I finished out about 1200sqft of basement in a home I owned in Utah.
My opinions:
Don't half ass it.  Finish it like you're building a house.
Don't use exterior foundation walls.  Drylock paint the foundation walls.  Frame against the exterior wall using 2x4's.  Fill with insulation.  Drywall.  Skip the insulation boards and paneling.
Glue and carpet to the floor.  Use low end low pile carpet, because you run a high chance of it being ruined someday.
Add more light than you think you need.  Canned lights in the corners, light fixture in center of the room.
Any where that any framing touches the foundation, use treated lumber.
When I did mine, I did it 100% to code and had it inspected. This added immense value to the home.  It also made the spaces I finished 100% comfortable and usable.


^all spot on advice^

To add, I used treated 2x4s for plates and studs on exterior walls, and added a vapor barrier covering the insulation/walls.   I did use hydraulic patch for the cracks and 3 coats of drylock.  Mostly glued down carpeting with some areas covered with laminate flooring (make sure to put down the correct padding/backing and carefully seal it first).


Another good idea is if you have a sump pump, replace it if its a pedestal mount with a quality submergeable pump sized bigger than you need. I've seen quite a few wet basements over the last decade due to heavy rains, and most were caused by pedestal mount sump pumps- the pumps overheat and shut themselves off allowing water to back up inot the basement through your sump pit. My submerseable  ran for 3 days straight a few few years back, while my neighbors had their finished basements wrecked as their pedestal pumps sat idle.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2010, 11:21:56 PM »
battery backup for sump pump  change battery every 5 years  no matter what the lil battery condition idjit lite says
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cfabe

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2010, 01:25:56 PM »
I finished about 500 sqft of basement in my parent's house about 8 years ago. For the walls I used 1.5" pink foam insulation board over the block walls and 1.3 furring strips over that secured to the block with tapcons. Then green moisture resistant drywall over that. Did not use any plastic sheet for vapor barrier. So far no problems with moisture/mold/musty smell. The basement was previously finished with fake wood paneling and I did not find any mold when removing it.

In one room (home theater) I did an acoustic tile ceiling using CeilingMAX low-clearance grid system which was a bit flimsy but worked okay and turned out well. In the other room (bedroom) I did drywall on the ceiling. I'm good at drywall on walls but I really struggled to get the ceiling to look good due to uneven joists. But I do like the look of drywall over tiles.

For lighting I did recessed cans, 6 for an 11x13 bedroom and 12 for the 11x20 home theater. With 75W bulbs its plenty of light and looks good. Also added sconces for ambiance in the theater.

brimic

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2010, 01:31:47 PM »
Quote
In one room (home theater) I did an acoustic tile ceiling using CeilingMAX low-clearance grid system which was a bit flimsy but worked okay and turned out well. In the other room (bedroom) I did drywall on the ceiling. I'm good at drywall on walls but I really struggled to get the ceiling to look good due to uneven joists.

I used the same stuff, floor joists were even enough, but I had to drop the ceiling in a few places by boxing out ducts/pipes/ etc with 2x2 lumber. I finished the faces where I had to drop the ceiling with pine board. (I did my downstairs family room in tongue and groove pine.)
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2010, 04:09:58 PM »
there is a new drywall product out  no paper  no mold.  works well. i was very skeptical but it came out real nice
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Jamisjockey

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Re: Any experience finishing basements?
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2010, 06:19:17 PM »
I used the same stuff, floor joists were even enough, but I had to drop the ceiling in a few places by boxing out ducts/pipes/ etc with 2x2 lumber. I finished the faces where I had to drop the ceiling with pine board. (I did my downstairs family room in tongue and groove pine.)

When it comes to the soffits I was taught a stupid easy and sturdy way of doing it.  Its kind of hard to explain, but I'll try:
Take 2x2's and screw them into the rafters, about 2" from the item (duct work, etc).  On the outside of the 2x2, screw a piece of OSB to it so that it hangs down and gives you about 2" of clearance below it.  On the bottom edge of the osb, screw another length of 2x2.  You are basically building a box with 2x2's and osb around the item needing a soffit.

Does that make sense?  It took me half as long to make my soffit runs using this technique.  Very tough, I was able to mount an interior wall underneath, nailed to the OSB, you couldn't shake the wall when I was done.
JD

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