Mandela's dead

[BlueStarLizzard]

Yeah, I save my praise for non-communists who don't belong to hideously murderous organizations.  I mean, really, he deserves canonization for NOT proposing genocide?  Setting the standard pretty low, are we not?  He was Obamatastic before Obama got HIS Nobel Prize for Peace and Just Because.

It's Africa. Saying "no genocide" and meaning AND actively working to prevent it is not a low bar over there.

In fact, it's a pretty high one, all things considered.

I'll admit, I don't know much about the man except what they taught in the public schools (which wasn't much more then the liberal party line for their hero's) but based on what I do know about Africa in general and the conditions as european colonization started to fail (and then did) Mandela did pretty freaking good.

[French G.]

I'll admit my initial reaction was a bit crass, co-worker told me the news and my Grumpy Cat reply was "Good."  Not really how I feel, more my reaction to the drawn out theater that has been his illness leading to a rather inevitable outcome and also a reaction to the mockery his own people made of him with their base political desires.

I guess I put Mandela up similar to MLK, a genuinely good person whose reputation and work were gutted by their acolytes.

But now, flags at half mast? Srsly? I'm pretty hateful on the trend to order flags to half staff for any two-bit American tragedy, now we do it for furriners?

[roo_ster]

I'll admit my initial reaction was a bit crass, co-worker told me the news and my Grumpy Cat reply was "Good."  Not really how I feel, more my reaction to the drawn out theater that has been his illness leading to a rather inevitable outcome and also a reaction to the mockery his own people made of him with their base political desires.

I guess I put Mandela up similar to MLK, a genuinely good person whose reputation and work were gutted by their acolytes.

But now, flags at half mast? Srsly? I'm pretty hateful on the trend to order flags to half staff for any two-bit American tragedy, now we do it for furriners?

Asinine and grotesque to do so.

It's Africa. Saying "no genocide" and meaning AND actively working to prevent it is not a low bar over there.

In fact, it's a pretty high one, all things considered.

I'll admit, I don't know much about the man except what they taught in the public schools (which wasn't much more then the liberal party line for their hero's) but based on what I do know about Africa in general and the conditions as european colonization started to fail (and then did) Mandela did pretty freaking good.

True, it is Africa. 

OTOH, I hold folk to the same standards, regardless.  No extra cookie & pat on the head if they do the right thing and happen to be non-European.  Just because he was exceptional relative to the usual pack of savages over there doesn't make him a Great Man, merely as decent as any run-of-the-mill politician from the West. 

"All hail Mayor Bob Schmuckatelli!  Why is he great?  When he won office, he didn't have those rat bastards on the Planning Board killed, despite how they raked him over the coals all those years when Bob was chief attorney for the City Council.  I get all choked up just thinking about it."

So, yeah, what I am getting at is all this slathering up of Mandela is infantilizing to Africa and Africans.  It is long past the time when we ought to treat them like adults and expect them to act like adults on the world stage.  No extra strokes for not peeing on the rug and not eating their neighbor.

[SADShooter]

Asinine and grotesque to do so.

True, it is Africa. 

OTOH, I hold folk to the same standards, regardless.  No extra cookie & pat on the head if they do the right thing and happen to be non-European.  Just because he was exceptional relative to the usual pack of savages over there doesn't make him a Great Man, merely as decent as any run-of-the-mill politician from the West. 

"All hail Mayor Bob Schmuckatelli!  Why is he great?  When he won office, he didn't have those rat bastards on the Planning Board killed, despite how they raked him over the coals all those years when Bob was chief attorney for the City Council.  I get all choked up just thinking about it."

So, yeah, what I am getting at is all this slathering up of Mandela is infantilizing to Africa and Africans.  It is long past the time when we ought to treat them like adults and expect them to act like adults on the world stage.  No extra strokes for not peeing on the rug and not eating their neighbor.

As much as I am generally prone to agree with your pragmatic and moral perspective, I think in this case we need to give proper credit to the perceived "savages" for not perpetuating the "Burn, Baby Burn!" stereotype. Part of the transition to adulthood, not holding a double standard, etc.

[mtnbkr]

Asinine and grotesque to do so.

Other countries lower their flags to half mast for our "luminaries".  Canada and The Philippines did so when Reagan died.

It's a general sign of respect in my view.

Chris

[brimic]

Asinine and grotesque to do so.

True, it is Africa. 

OTOH, I hold folk to the same standards, regardless.  No extra cookie & pat on the head if they do the right thing and happen to be non-European.  Just   he was exceptional relative to the usual pack of savages over there doesn't make him a Great Man, merely as decent as any run-of-the-mill politician from the West. 

"All hail Mayor Bob Schmuckatelli!  Why is he great?  When he won office, he didn't have those rat bastards on the Planning Board killed, despite how they raked him over the coals all those years when Bob was chief attorney for the City Council.  I get all choked up just thinking about it."

So, yeah, what I am getting at is all this slathering up of Mandela is infantilizing to Africa and Africans.  It is long past the time when we ought to treat them like adults and expect them to act like adults on the world stage.  No extra strokes for not peeing on the rug and not eating their neighbor.

well manfela.wasn't the lowest bar. Remember arafatvgot a nobel prize for simply lowering his monthly quota on suicide bombings,  so I guess mandela should get sainthood in comparison, though the ANC is going to be responsible  for a lot more deaths than the PLO by the time this is all over.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Asinine and grotesque to do so.

True, it is Africa. 

OTOH, I hold folk to the same standards, regardless.  No extra cookie & pat on the head if they do the right thing and happen to be non-European.  Just because he was exceptional relative to the usual pack of savages over there doesn't make him a Great Man, merely as decent as any run-of-the-mill politician from the West. 

"All hail Mayor Bob Schmuckatelli!  Why is he great?  When he won office, he didn't have those rat bastards on the Planning Board killed, despite how they raked him over the coals all those years when Bob was chief attorney for the City Council.  I get all choked up just thinking about it."

So, yeah, what I am getting at is all this slathering up of Mandela is infantilizing to Africa and Africans.  It is long past the time when we ought to treat them like adults and expect them to act like adults on the world stage.  No extra strokes for not peeing on the rug and not eating their neighbor.

yes, because the majority of people in this world live in the oh so civilized nations like the good ol' USA and Europe.

Us westerners would never participate in genocide anyway, so god forbid we fail to hold Africa to the same standards as the middle east, south america and part of eastern europe.
(if you couldn't figure it out, that was sarcasm, BTW)

Get off your high horse and look around. Telling the oppressed to not kill their oppressors in a vicious blood bath is the uncommen move.

[lupinus]

Get off your high horse and look around. Telling the oppressed to not kill their oppressors in a vicious blood bath is the uncommen move.

So is not raping and pillaging your neighbors at every opportunity. Doesn't make you a saint because you pick one or the other instead of both or only do it occasionally.

Sure, it could have been a lot worse without Mandela being at the helm for the transition. I wont dispute that, and I think few rational people would. So hey, props for not being responsible for as many deaths and carnage as he could have I suppose. But I'm also certainly not going to give him hero worship like he was some saint, just because later in life he decided to moderate himself and wasn't as bad as he could have been.

[Scout26]

How many died in the American Revolution and then 87years later in the Civil War ?  Perhaps France should be the beacon of enlightened gov. transitions?   Then we have the entire 30 Years War where a change in Spanish rule practically denuded Germany and great swathes of Central Europe of humankind.

And how wars started whenever there was a change in England or France?  There a whole bunch of wars like Queen Anne's War , The French and Indian War, etc.  Napoleon and his return?

The European standard IS a massive bloodletting.   The fact that SA did NOT is rare in and of it's self.

[BlueStarLizzard]

So is not raping and pillaging your neighbors at every opportunity. Doesn't make you a saint because you pick one or the other instead of both or only do it occasionally.

Sure, it could have been a lot worse without Mandela being at the helm for the transition. I wont dispute that, and I think few rational people would. So hey, props for not being responsible for as many deaths and carnage as he could have I suppose. But I'm also certainly not going to give him hero worship like he was some saint, just because later in life he decided to moderate himself and wasn't as bad as he could have been.

Oh good grief!

Giving credit where credit is due is not the same thing as indulging in idolatry.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

perspective again   
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/600358_451567964947154_318123304_n.jpg

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc

[roo_ster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc

I call bull.  It is unpossible for a Nobel Peace Prize winner to make peace-noises in English and call for genocide in their native tongue. 



Well, I could be wrong...

=============

Stop treating non-Europeans like retarded children with no agency and start treating them like adults who can take responsibility for their actions.

[Ron]

He was better than most on that continent (faint praise indeed).

So he is hailed as a hero when viewed through the soft bigotry of low expectations lens.

[BryanP]

Asinine and grotesque to do so.

It's completely compliant and customary per the relevant section of The Flag Code.

 In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.

[French G.]

Not against the flag code but I'll still agree with asinine and grotesque. Appropriate if the noble caricature was the true person, a lot less so given the reality. 

[roo_ster]

It's completely compliant and customary per the relevant section of The Flag Code.

 In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.

So?  Legality and grotesquerie are not mutually exclusive. 

[Bigjake]

If I don't approve of the recently deceased/ "honored dead",  I leave my flag where it is.   

Simple, really.

[French G.]

I'm not at home, flag's still up, problem solved. 

[Mannlicher]

I'm wondering how much money it's gonna cost to send king Hussein, George Bush, Bill Clinton, and Jimmy (along with, of course, their families, entourage and Secret Service goons) to the "Ceremony of Remembrance" .  Got to be hundreds of millions of Dollars, all to celebrate a damn commie terrorist.
We live in interesting times.

[Pb]

Here's some of his work:



The gov of the town has since named the street the bombing took place on after the murderer.

[brimic]

The gov of the town has since named the street the bombing took place on after the murderer.

Its ok and not racist to murder white people.

[bedlamite]

http://newsone.com/2805291/westboro-baptist-church-nelson-mandela/

[Boomhauer]

http://newsone.com/2805291/westboro-baptist-church-nelson-mandela/

Here's the chance to not let them back into the country!

[Gowen]

Here's the chance to not let them back into the country!

But at least they'll get one right for once!